pistol caliber carbine feedback

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pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Mechphisto » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:22 am

I want to get my first (and likely only for a few years) carbine, and would like some advice and feedback from experienced shooters, based on my needs and wants.
The two I have in mind are a Hi-Point 995TS 9mm, or a Mossberg 715T 22LR
(EDIT: Instead of the Mossberg, I'm thinking the Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 Sport 22LR)

Here's the whys and whats: (and if it matters, the only other gun I own is a Glock 43x)

What I plan on using it for, in order:
- Target shooting for fun, and a lot of it!
- Home defense (not very likely)
- SHTF small animal hunting, and defense (extremely unlikely)

Considerations:
- ammo cost: I really want to shoot it a lot, and I'm a poor person, so 9mm is the VERY top end ammo price
- cost of gun, I'm a poor person, so $300 (not counting the improvements I'd get periodically, like metal rails, etc) is my necessary pricepoint
- tactical: one of the tings I want to do with a carbine is "trick it out," add optics, light, laser, suppressor (in the case of the 995TS), etc
...I guess those are really the only considerations. :)

Thanks for any feedback!
Last edited by Mechphisto on Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by woodsghost » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:49 am

I have had good luck with Hi-Point pistols and carbines. Though I have not shot the 9mm. I have a decent amount of time with the .45ACP. The Hi-Point is what I would consider in your position.

Just my $0.02
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by HarlequinHal » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:10 am

You might also want to consider the Kel-tec Sub 2000. It goes for slightly over your price point ($350 ish), but they make a multi-mag version that will use common pistol mags (Beretta 92, SIG, Glock 17 / 19, but sadly not 43X). I don't have any personal experience with them but they are generally well received, and Kel-tec has been making them for over 20 years.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by emclean » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:50 am

the Hi-Points are a real PIA to dissemble for cleaning. I typically clean mine with a blast of WD-40.
I have no experience with the Mossberg 715T, but it looks like there are plenty of rails to hang stuff on.

the Sub-2000 rifles can be found for under $300, especially the first generation. I prefer my Sub2K over my hipoint.

another rifle to look at if you want to add modifications to it in the future would be the Ruger 10/22, it is probably the rifle with the most options to customize.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by lailr » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:47 am

It's a shame that $300 is your price point. PSA has that AKV 9mm fairly reasonable.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak- ... 50169.html


Some are $699 now, and I *think* I've seen them lower

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by RickOShea » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:30 am

Mechphisto wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:22 am
I want to get my first (and likely only for a few years) carbine, and would like some advice and feedback from experienced shooters, based on my needs and wants.
The two I have in mind are a Hi-Point 995TS 9mm, or a Mossberg 715T 22LR.
Not to knock the 715, but I'd save-up a little more and look at a Smith & Wesson M&P15 22 SPORT. They have a decent reputation for reliability...10,000 Rds through a M&P 22LR = Carbon Pudding

Spare magazines for the M&P 15-22 and the 715T appear to be around the same price, but I personally prefer the M&P style.



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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Mechphisto » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:11 pm

lailr wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:47 am
It's a shame that $300 is your price point. PSA has that AKV 9mm fairly reasonable.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak- ... 50169.html
Some are $699 now, and I *think* I've seen them lower
OK, that IS really cool!! But dang, it really is more than double my price range. I'll keep that on my list of wishes :)

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Mechphisto » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:14 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:30 am
Not to knock the 715, but I'd save-up a little more and look at a Smith & Wesson M&P15 22 SPORT. They have a decent reputation for reliability...10,000 Rds through a M&P 22LR = Carbon Pudding
Hmm, those are only $50 more than what I've been looking at, and I like the style... OK, that's on my list of potentials! Thanks!

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by lailr » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:05 pm

Mechphisto wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:11 pm
lailr wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:47 am
It's a shame that $300 is your price point. PSA has that AKV 9mm fairly reasonable.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak- ... 50169.html
Some are $699 now, and I *think* I've seen them lower
OK, that IS really cool!! But dang, it really is more than double my price range. I'll keep that on my list of wishes :)
If you'll keep an eye on PSA'S daily deals, I think I've seen them as low as $500

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:55 pm

emclean wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:50 am
the Hi-Points are a real PIA to dissemble for cleaning. I typically clean mine with a blast of WD-40.
I have no experience with the Mossberg 715T, but it looks like there are plenty of rails to hang stuff on.

the Sub-2000 rifles can be found for under $300, especially the first generation. I prefer my Sub2K over my hipoint.

another rifle to look at if you want to add modifications to it in the future would be the Ruger 10/22, it is probably the rifle with the most options to customize.
I just got a C9 & this is what the seller told be. Just bathe it. He also has the PPC in 9MM that was put into a Barletta stock for $170.00.

It would be an easier sacrifice that my Glock\AR-9 combo if I had to use them & turn them over.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by flybynight » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Mechphisto wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:22 am
I want to get my first (and likely only for a few years) carbine, and would like some advice and feedback from experienced shooters, based on my needs and wants.
The two I have in mind are a Hi-Point 995TS 9mm, or a Mossberg 715T 22LR
(EDIT: Instead of the Mossberg, I'm thinking the Smith & Wesson M&P15-22 Sport 22LR)

Here's the whys and whats: (and if it matters, the only other gun I own is a Glock 43x)

What I plan on using it for, in order:
- Target shooting for fun, and a lot of it!
- Home defense (not very likely)
- SHTF small animal hunting, and defense (extremely unlikely)

Considerations:
- ammo cost: I really want to shoot it a lot, and I'm a poor person, so 9mm is the VERY top end ammo price
- cost of gun, I'm a poor person, so $300 (not counting the improvements I'd get periodically, like metal rails, etc) is my necessary pricepoint
- tactical: one of the tings I want to do with a carbine is "trick it out," add optics, light, laser, suppressor (in the case of the 995TS), etc
...I guess those are really the only considerations. :)

Thanks for any feedback!
At the risk of thread drift ( haha who me ? ) I'm kinda interested in why after a 14 year absence from the boards , you seem to be at the same or less point of prepping and experience with firearms. Don't mean to sound too nosey but for what reasons did you abandon ( or appear to ) prepping , but more importantly . What has caused you to begin again?
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Mechphisto » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:30 am

flybynight wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:31 pm
At the risk of thread drift ( haha who me ? ) I'm kinda interested in why after a 14 year absence from the boards , you seem to be at the same or less point of prepping and experience with firearms. Don't mean to sound too nosey but for what reasons did you abandon ( or appear to ) prepping , but more importantly . What has caused you to begin again?
Thread drift! Thread drift!! :O
Heh, fair question.
When I originally joined ZS, I was more taken by the coolness and novelty of it all. I liked the idea of prepping, but I didn't take it seriously. I lived in Springfield, MO where as long as we had a weather radio and bike helmets in our central closet, we're ok. And as for firearms, we had young kids in the house and no perceived NEED to have any guns, so we didn't have any.

Now, it's just me so no need to worry about curious hands, and now I live in Portland, OR where earthquake is a very real probability. And it's a city with a lot of crime and social turmoil, and when masses FINALLY rise up to eat the rich, it'll be ground zero. So, I got my concealed carry license last month, have been taking classes, getting a variety of BOB and GBH and INCH packs together, and am just taking it seriously now.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by woodsghost » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:59 am

Mechphisto wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:30 am
flybynight wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:31 pm
At the risk of thread drift ( haha who me ? ) I'm kinda interested in why after a 14 year absence from the boards , you seem to be at the same or less point of prepping and experience with firearms. Don't mean to sound too nosey but for what reasons did you abandon ( or appear to ) prepping , but more importantly . What has caused you to begin again?
Thread drift! Thread drift!! :O
Heh, fair question.
When I originally joined ZS, I was more taken by the coolness and novelty of it all. I liked the idea of prepping, but I didn't take it seriously. I lived in Springfield, MO where as long as we had a weather radio and bike helmets in our central closet, we're ok. And as for firearms, we had young kids in the house and no perceived NEED to have any guns, so we didn't have any.

Now, it's just me so no need to worry about curious hands, and now I live in Portland, OR where earthquake is a very real probability. And it's a city with a lot of crime and social turmoil, and when masses FINALLY rise up to eat the rich, it'll be ground zero. So, I got my concealed carry license last month, have been taking classes, getting a variety of BOB and GBH and INCH packs together, and am just taking it seriously now.
Sounds like a lot has happened.

I have a few thoughts, and take them for what they are worth.

It sounds like you are very budget minded and also trying to get spun up and go from 0mph to 60mph in short order. It might be worth taking time to chat (online) and chart out a plan to make that happen.

Also, some of the best advice I got was to start small and work up. Start with 3 days prepardness, and make sure all areas are covered for 3 days. Then work on 7 days. Then 14 days. Then 30 days. And keep building from there.

We tend to get one area set up, like maybe "food" figured out for 30 days and maybe "defense" figured out for 6 months, but then have 3 days of "medical" sitting around. So we might be really stocked up in one area but not other. And it can be hard to organize a budget around that style of prepping.

And building multiple bags is expensive. Especially if you only really need to cover your own needs. It might help to have 1 bag for "work" with a minimum of stuff. You add your work bag to the "leaving home bag" so you are not buying/packing redundant gear. You might have a "living off the land" module which you add to the "leaving home" bag if needed. Again, this would be to keep the amount of gear you are buying down and not buying repeats of gear. This has helped my budget and I wish I'd understood all this earlier.

Anyway, just some thoughts and worth what you paid for them :)
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Mechphisto » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:27 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:59 am
Actually I'm all set, equipment-wise. I have my hiking/camping gear that serves me for a SHTF gear always already packed and ready to go for multiple days.
I have a car kit that serves as my GBH gear in case The Big One hits while I'm across the city.
And I have my EDC shoulder bag that's got my blowout first aid kit and... EDC stuff.
The only thing I feel I need is a good hand pump water filter that handles heavy metals for home. (Otherwise I just have my water purification tabs in my camping gear.)

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by woodsghost » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 pm

Mechphisto wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:27 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:59 am
Actually I'm all set, equipment-wise. I have my hiking/camping gear that serves me for a SHTF gear always already packed and ready to go for multiple days.
I have a car kit that serves as my GBH gear in case The Big One hits while I'm across the city.
And I have my EDC shoulder bag that's got my blowout first aid kit and... EDC stuff.
The only thing I feel I need is a good hand pump water filter that handles heavy metals for home. (Otherwise I just have my water purification tabs in my camping gear.)
Perfect! Sounds like you are ahead of the curve then!
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by raptor » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:29 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 pm
Mechphisto wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:27 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:59 am

The only thing I feel I need is a good hand pump water filter that handles heavy metals for home. (Otherwise I just have my water purification tabs in my camping gear.)
Perfect! Sounds like you are ahead of the curve then!
BTW a link to a good Hall of Fame post dealing with what to do when the water gets shut off.
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=53446

I would note that emergency water supplies are perhaps the cheapest preparation around, assuming of course you you use tap water to fill reusable containers. Water stored properly has a basically no shelf life. The only real cost the purchase price of the container.

The other thing is depending upon exactly what heavy metals you are trying to filter, you can get fairly cheap filters (w/o the pump) that do a very good job. You need to look for filters that are certified by NSF International against ANSI Standard 42 and 53. 42 is primarily a taste filtration whereas standard 53 will be for specific items listed on the product. For instance this filter is certified to remove lead in the water.

https://smile.amazon.com/Culligan-FM-15 ... RBKKCSQMBQ


BTW any water filtration system that works well should be NSF certified to some extent for ANSI standard 53.

https://www.nsf.org/consumer-resources/ ... nt-systems
NSF/ANSI 42
Filters are certified to reduce aesthetic impurities such as chlorine and taste/odor. These can be point-of-use (under the sink, water pitcher, etc.) or point-of-entry (whole house) treatment systems.
NSF/ANSI 53
Filters are certified to reduce a contaminant with a health effect. Health effects are set in this standard as regulated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Health Canada. Both standards 42 and 53 cover adsorption/filtration which is a process that occurs when liquid, gas or dissolved/suspended matter adheres to the surface of, or in the pores of, an adsorbent media. Carbon filters are an example of this type of product.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by The Twizzler » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:08 am

I agree with this. Hi-points do work but there are 2 main problems with them.
1. They are a real pain to disassemble, you will need a punch and a rubber or brass mallet and a lot of force. The pin that holds them together is really tight which is good for reliability with their choice of metal but sucks for both assembly and disassembly.
2. The gun, while ugly, heavy, and crude does work.I actually like the sights. The problem is the mags. You have to make sure to seat them by banging the back of the mag every time. Failure to do this results in jams.

Based off what you are wanting I might recommend either a 2nd gen Keltec 2000 or a used double barrel coach gun with dual triggers.
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HarlequinHal wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:10 am
You might also want to consider the Kel-tec Sub 2000. It goes for slightly over your price point ($350 ish), but they make a multi-mag version that will use common pistol mags (Beretta 92, SIG, Glock 17 / 19, but sadly not 43X). I don't have any personal experience with them but they are generally well received, and Kel-tec has been making them for over 20 years.
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Mrselfdestruct » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:41 am

Bit above your price point, but not as above as some other suggestions...
Ruger pc9. Got one for the ol'lady last year, Takes glock mags, accurate as she is, easy to clean, and twists in half for more concealed profile.
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Zed Hunter » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:23 am

My budget was higher so I went with the TNW aero survival rifle. Multiple caliber capability by changing out the bolt, barrel and or the trigger group.

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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by NT2C » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:28 pm

Zed Hunter wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:23 am
My budget was higher so I went with the TNW aero survival rifle. Multiple caliber capability by changing out the bolt, barrel and or the trigger group.
Rumor has it that Ruger will be offering caliber conversions for their PCC in the near future. With magwell inserts already part of the platform and easily swappable barrels and bolt faces (might also need to swap recoil springs and bolt weights), it's easy to see how that could work.
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:47 pm

9mm Hipoint carbines are great, but they do have some cons due to the price (it's a compromise). I picked up my 45 carbine for $150 used. It's a blast and I've used it on groundhogs. But as others have said, heavy, bulky, low mag capacity (redball mags I think are good extended mags and High tower armory has a cool bullpup conversion).

If you're going .22, I also recommend the Ruger 10/22. It's a boring choice, but they run forever, are cheap, and very customizeable. It's #1 for good reason. I think I got mine for like $185 on sale. But around $200 is a good price for a basic one.

So basically, if you shop classifieds, pawn shops, gun stores, you may be able to find a 9mm carbine and a 10/22 for like $300-400 for both combined.

I'd skip the Mossberg... it's decent but not as good as a 10/22. The Smith is good, but you might be paying a little more for tacticoolness. It's a great choice, but for my dollar and ease of use, I'd go 10/22.
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Stercutus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:55 pm

Having owned and/ or shot all the choices in the thread I am going to go with the Extar EP9.

More capable and much better quality than either the Hi-Point 995TS 9mm, or a Mossberg 715T 22LR. More handy and Carbine like than the M&P 15 also uses Glock magazines instead of S&W proprietary mags.
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by NT2C » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:25 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:55 pm
Having owned and/ or shot all the choices in the thread I am going to go with the Extar EP9.

More capable and much better quality than either the Hi-Point 995TS 9mm, or a Mossberg 715T 22LR. More handy and Carbine like than the M&P 15 also uses Glock magazines instead of S&W proprietary mags.
Except it's a pistol. With a 6.5" barrel you lose all the gains that a true PCC brings to the table, such as higher velocity and greater sight radius for iron sights. Also, pistols can have very different legal restrictions placed upon them than rifles, which could be an important factor for OP.
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Re: pistol caliber carbine feedback

Post by Stercutus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:31 pm

NT2C wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:25 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:55 pm
Having owned and/ or shot all the choices in the thread I am going to go with the Extar EP9.

More capable and much better quality than either the Hi-Point 995TS 9mm, or a Mossberg 715T 22LR. More handy and Carbine like than the M&P 15 also uses Glock magazines instead of S&W proprietary mags.
Except it's a pistol. With a 6.5" barrel you lose all the gains that a true PCC brings to the table, such as higher velocity and greater sight radius for iron sights. Also, pistols can have very different legal restrictions placed upon them than rifles, which could be an important factor for OP.
I guess, however;

While I have not seen anyone using iron sights on a carbine in quite a while the sight radius can be about 18" on the Extar which is about the same as an M4.

Legally, in the overwhelming number of jurisdictions in the US having a pistol is worlds better than having a rifle from a legal standpoint. There are much fewer restrictions, especially if you have a CHL. The places where there are lots of restrictions on the pistol are not going to allow an S&W M&P Rifle anyway. The only restriction worth mentioning would be if the OP were 18-20 years old and not reached the age of majority for the purchase of a pistol according to local laws. But since he has been a member since 2005 I am going to go ahead and rule that out.

Finally if the OP is considering a 22lr rifle than he clearly is not concerned about power gains from a longer 9mm barrel. Just about any size 9mm is going to be more powerful than a 22lr.
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