Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

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Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 pm

Before we had PCCs + pistol combos that took the same mag, there were Cowboy Combos. Back in the day you could carry a rifle/carbine in the same caliber as your revolver, and you even had two choices: lever action and revolving carbine.

For the traditionalist, the choice remains. But which is better? Share, discuss.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by RickOShea » Wed May 08, 2019 11:37 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 pm
Back in the day you could carry a rifle/carbine in the same caliber as your revolver, and you even had two choices: lever action and revolving carbine.

Option #3 - pump action. Image


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Last edited by RickOShea on Wed May 08, 2019 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by flybynight » Wed May 08, 2019 11:40 pm

The Colt revolving rifle was not much more than a curriosity. The Henry rifle was a game changer
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by boskone » Thu May 09, 2019 12:33 am

Lever. More ammo onboard, and for comparable overall lengths I suspect there's a measurable improvement in performance. I also don't think a lever is likely to be much if any harder to manufacture or maintain; it is more "space intensive", which doesn't matter so much when talking about a rifle package.

Most full-size revolvers are 6-round, and for good reason. Large cartridges have fewer rounds, really small ones (.22 is all I've seen, but I wouldn't discount others) more. A lever action--unless artificially neutered--will be more like 10 rounds, limited basically by barrel length.

Revolvers have a "flash gap", that area in front of the cylinder but behind the barrel. That's at least some wasted energy. Levers don't have that.

Related to the above, a revolver longarm would put my face too close for comfort to that flash gap; there's enough energy there to cause injury. My face isn't the greatest face, but I'm still rather attached to it.

So, given a matched revolver+rifle combo, I'd go with a lever. Even over Rick's pump action, though in that case it's because I just like levers better.

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Thu May 09, 2019 6:31 am

boskone wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 12:33 am
Lever. More ammo onboard, and for comparable overall lengths I suspect there's a measurable improvement in performance. I also don't think a lever is likely to be much if any harder to manufacture or maintain; it is more "space intensive", which doesn't matter so much when talking about a rifle package.

Most full-size revolvers are 6-round, and for good reason. Large cartridges have fewer rounds, really small ones (.22 is all I've seen, but I wouldn't discount others) more. A lever action--unless artificially neutered--will be more like 10 rounds, limited basically by barrel length.

Revolvers have a "flash gap", that area in front of the cylinder but behind the barrel. That's at least some wasted energy. Levers don't have that.

Related to the above, a revolver longarm would put my face too close for comfort to that flash gap; there's enough energy there to cause injury. My face isn't the greatest face, but I'm still rather attached to it.

So, given a matched revolver+rifle combo, I'd go with a lever. Even over Rick's pump action, though in that case it's because I just like levers better.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by MacWa77ace » Thu May 09, 2019 8:12 am

The gas escaping between the cylinder and the barrel tended to hit you in the face and/or forearm on the revolver rifles. [described as 'flash gap' above]
And of course many of the first models you had to remove the cylinder to reload or replace with a full one. so slower reloads, and no tactical reloads.

They're beauties though


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Here's a uberti replica of a colt 1873 which is a rear loader >> http://www.ubertireplicas.com/wp-conten ... 134503.jpg

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 09, 2019 4:03 pm

I've seen pictures of people damaging their fingers and hands by placing them improperly when shooting a long wheel gun. I'd say that such a gun might be more trouble than it is worth. A lever action is ok and a .44 Mag will take most any medium sized game in the US. Download the powder and it is a comfortable easy shooter. A .44 Magnum might not be the best answer.

A .327 rifle will get you really close to the magical 2200 fps in a 100gr load. This is faster even then the .357. This would likely be near ideal for self defense purposes and can shoot a variety of a different kinds of ammo for plinking, varmint hunting and medium size game hunting at a reduced cost (over 44mag) and reduced recoil. I'd wonder about the effectiveness on black bear but I have not dealt with a black bear in over ten years. Also .327 magnum was not a cowboy cartridge (neither was the 44 magnum). The .32 S&W was a cowboy cartridge and a common police caliber back in the late 1800s which the .327 mag can shoot without issue.


So if I wanted to stick with a period gun I'd likely go with the modern caliber with a Ruger Revolver and a Henry Rifle. If I were then cowboy action shooting I would download it to the 32S&W. The other cowpokes would make fun of me for my tiny gun caliber but I would be wicked fast on the range.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by NT2C » Thu May 09, 2019 10:48 pm

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by RickOShea » Fri May 10, 2019 3:05 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:03 pm
So if I wanted to stick with a period gun I'd likely go with the modern caliber with a Ruger Revolver and a Henry Rifle.
Henry is coming out with a .30-30 with a side gate, so you can load it from the front or the back. Mebbe that will eventually filter down to the pistol caliber models.



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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Mon May 13, 2019 7:25 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:05 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:03 pm
So if I wanted to stick with a period gun I'd likely go with the modern caliber with a Ruger Revolver and a Henry Rifle.
Henry is coming out with a .30-30 with a side gate, so you can load it from the front or the back. Mebbe that will eventually filter down to the pistol caliber models.



Image
One does hope.

After reading the comments, I’m leaning towards a Marlin model 1894 in .357/.38
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by boskone » Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:25 pm
RickOShea wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:05 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:03 pm
So if I wanted to stick with a period gun I'd likely go with the modern caliber with a Ruger Revolver and a Henry Rifle.
Henry is coming out with a .30-30 with a side gate, so you can load it from the front or the back. Mebbe that will eventually filter down to the pistol caliber models.
One does hope.

After reading the comments, I’m leaning towards a Marlin model 1894 in .357/.38
C'mon...Big Horn Armory 89 in .500 S&W Magnum, with a matched S&W revolver. Or at least a Henry in .30-30 with matched caliber Magnum Research BFR.

You can't tell me that cowpokes wouldn't've been rocking that, if they could have! :D

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Tue May 14, 2019 10:25 am

boskone wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 pm
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:25 pm
RickOShea wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:05 pm
Stercutus wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:03 pm
So if I wanted to stick with a period gun I'd likely go with the modern caliber with a Ruger Revolver and a Henry Rifle.
Henry is coming out with a .30-30 with a side gate, so you can load it from the front or the back. Mebbe that will eventually filter down to the pistol caliber models.
One does hope.

After reading the comments, I’m leaning towards a Marlin model 1894 in .357/.38
C'mon...Big Horn Armory 89 in .500 S&W Magnum, with a matched S&W revolver. Or at least a Henry in .30-30 with matched caliber Magnum Research BFR.

You can't tell me that cowpokes wouldn't've been rocking that, if they could have! :D
No judging!

I can’t handle a .44 Mag in a handgun, and you want me to use .500 S&W or .30-30?

:rofl:
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Tue May 14, 2019 4:18 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:25 am
boskone wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 10:06 pm
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:25 pm
RickOShea wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:05 pm


Henry is coming out with a .30-30 with a side gate, so you can load it from the front or the back. Mebbe that will eventually filter down to the pistol caliber models.
One does hope.

After reading the comments, I’m leaning towards a Marlin model 1894 in .357/.38
C'mon...Big Horn Armory 89 in .500 S&W Magnum, with a matched S&W revolver. Or at least a Henry in .30-30 with matched caliber Magnum Research BFR.

You can't tell me that cowpokes wouldn't've been rocking that, if they could have! :D
No judging!

I can’t handle a .44 Mag in a handgun, and you want me to use .500 S&W or .30-30?

:rofl:
From what I've heard, .30-30 out of a BFR isn't too bad. Then again, a BFR weighs something like 5 or 6 pounds or so, so I'd guess the weight soaks up some of the recoil.

I've never fired one, so I can't really say whether or not it's true.

Now .500 S&W is a totally different beast. No way in hell would I fire one off in a revolver. A rifle might be different because of the weight, but I'm not touching off a .500 S&W in a handgun.

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by velojym » Tue May 14, 2019 5:56 pm

I gotta 10 round tube in my .44 mag Marlin 1894, so yeah, a revolver with that capacity would be kinda bulky.

One thing, which may or may not be an issue, depending on how tight the manufacturer's tooling is.... you're dealing with 6 separate chambers in a revolver, and only one on the lever or pump guns. As mentioned before, this can make for some hazard with a poorly handled rifle, and if there are any problems with a chamber, it can throw that round off a bit in relation to its neighbors.

Just tossing that in there. All the revolvers I've had were pretty well done, including my Marlin's partner, a .44 mag SBH.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by emclean » Wed May 15, 2019 6:40 am

Now .500 S&W is a totally different beast. No way in hell would I fire one off in a revolver. A rifle might be different because of the weight, but I'm not touching off a .500 S&W in a handgun.
firing a .500 mag revolver with a muzzle break isn't bad. I was pleasantly surprised at the lower than expected recoil.
it was even nicer to find a range that rented it by the round, so I only shot two.

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed May 15, 2019 2:19 pm

emclean wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:40 am
Now .500 S&W is a totally different beast. No way in hell would I fire one off in a revolver. A rifle might be different because of the weight, but I'm not touching off a .500 S&W in a handgun.
firing a .500 mag revolver with a muzzle break isn't bad. I was pleasantly surprised at the lower than expected recoil.
it was even nicer to find a range that rented it by the round, so I only shot two.
I've never fired a .500 S&W, but that's mostly because I don't know anyone local with one. And as far as I know, none of the local ranges have any to rent.

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by NT2C » Wed May 15, 2019 2:23 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 pm
Before we had PCCs + pistol combos that took the same mag, there were Cowboy Combos. Back in the day you could carry a rifle/carbine in the same caliber as your revolver, and you even had two choices: lever action and revolving carbine.

For the traditionalist, the choice remains. But which is better? Share, discuss.
Why have to choose. Rossi Mare's Leg in .357 mag for the win. :crazy:
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by brothaman » Wed May 22, 2019 10:34 am

Well,.. I got my mom and dad a Rossi Judge Carbine for a garden gun. While its a fun little gun,.. and actually pretty accurate, I don't think it'd replace a decent lever gun. The lever has more on tap and tends to accommodate more powerful cartridges whether is pistol carts or rifle carts. That said,.. 30-30 FTW!!! Cheap to buy, Cheap to reload. Its a 250 yard shooter if you're a 250 yard shooter. Good for squirrels to hogs to deer and black bear,.. or to whatever if you're in a jam. Subjectively, I just like it.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by NT2C » Wed May 22, 2019 10:39 am

(mentally picturing hunting squirrels with a 30-30)





Well, maybe if you wanted to make squirrel mist.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by RickOShea » Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 am

Welp, you could pull a Daniel Boone and try to "bark" the squirrel with a turdy-turdy, I suppose.. :awesome:
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by brothaman » Wed May 22, 2019 12:18 pm

A head shot at 20 yards is a head shot at 20 yards. Even a body shot just pokes a hole through a squirrel. You fellas are over thinking it. You lose a half a spoonful of meat.
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by RickOShea » Wed May 22, 2019 1:51 pm

brothaman wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:18 pm
A head shot at 20 yards is a head shot at 20 yards. Even a body shot just pokes a hole through a squirrel. You fellas are over thinking it. You lose a half a spoonful of meat.
Okey-dokey.....Now, getting back to the OP, are there any other .30-30 revolvers, besides the BFR, that you can use for your Cowboy Combo, or is that pretty much your only option?
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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by NT2C » Wed May 22, 2019 3:40 pm

brothaman wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:18 pm
A head shot at 20 yards is a head shot at 20 yards. Even a body shot just pokes a hole through a squirrel. You fellas are over thinking it. You lose a half a spoonful of meat.
Please pay attention starting at the 2:00 mark :mrgreen:

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Re: Lever Action vs. Revolving Carbine

Post by brothaman » Thu May 23, 2019 8:17 am

At the 2:00 mark dude is shooting a Stainless ball.... I don't understand what your getting at. Whatever.

However,.. my bad for getting off topic. I won't chime in on this again. The internet is mo' better than real life.
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