Take down or traditional

Forum dedicated for rifles and shotguns from basic to tactical.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
BullOnParade
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Take down or traditional

Post by BullOnParade » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:41 pm

I've been eyeing a Mare's leg variety gun for a while now. I keep coming back to the Chiappa take down selection ... a take down rifle has some advantages, especially in the packability department. But moving parts ... move?

Who's got experience with take down firearms, and what are some things to be aware of before I go do something I might regret later?
BullOnParade

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

Urban BOB/Range (& Bailout) Bag/EDC/Vehicle Kit

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:47 pm

I'd read a lot before buying. I think the only ones I haven't read complaints about are the break down 10/22s. I think someone makes a backpacking stock for it too IIRC. But they are decidedly not on the light weight side. HAve you considered looking at the weight of traditional .22lr bolt action rifles? My father had a few from the 50's I'm guessing. And none had huge stocks like today. They were small and thin. I don't think the entire rifle weighed more than a couple pounds. And certainly could fit in or on a full size pack. On a medium sized pack for sure. And they are dead simple and reliable. And the biggest thing accurate. I don't here anyone brag about the accuracy of the various survival rifles that break down. Except the I think the 10/22 breakdown is as accurate as the fixed one.

Maybe these little .22lr rifles were youth sized or something. IDK. I wasn't around in the 50's. Something like this:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/782068393
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/776928568

NEw savage in the 3lb mark.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/770467002

AT some point you get to where carrying a .22 target pistol makes more sense. Maybe one of those Ruger lightweight ones. Very accurate. And very light weight. What do you want to do with this gun? I assume backpack and take small game?

Here's a search result for some Ruger target pistols. The light weight versions are pretty spendy. But the other models not so much. Especially if you bought used. I had a Colt Woodsman from many decades back. It was very accurate and lightweight. No bull barrel either.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Ke ... ageSize=96
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
roOism
* * * * *
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:18 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, 28 Weeks Later
Location: Somewhere cold.

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by roOism » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:54 pm

I picked up a Savage Rascal on sale for around $120 last year, partly for my younger kid to have something to shoot, and partly thinking it'd be a decent pack/survival gun. I think the ruger pistols are ideal, but I liked the price and simplicity of a single shot bolt action.
"Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must." - Goethe

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:00 am

roOism wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:54 pm
I picked up a Savage Rascal on sale for around $120 last year, partly for my younger kid to have something to shoot, and partly thinking it'd be a decent pack/survival gun. I think the ruger pistols are ideal, but I liked the price and simplicity of a single shot bolt action.
I wonder if they make a lighter synthetic stock too. There's a lot of wood there. Wish I could remember the brand of my fathers. I have it back home in pieces actually. I want to say some off brand. It had the plunger in the back. But the stock was very thin. Good solid wood. But not heavy hardwood. HAs to be a youth rifle now that I think about it. My son shot it when he was 5. But he's big kid too. So IDK. My father used it while trapping in his teens and 20's.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
roOism
* * * * *
Posts: 1169
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:18 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, 28 Weeks Later
Location: Somewhere cold.

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by roOism » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:59 am

Mine is actually a synthetic stock, I'll have to put it on the scale at work sometime but it's super light.

ETA: Bud's Gun Shop has it at 2.66 lbs

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/pro ... olt+Action
Last edited by roOism on Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must." - Goethe

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by teotwaki » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 pm

The Ruger 10-22 takedown is great and the Magpul stock is a huge improvement without adding any weight
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:51 pm

teotwaki wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:05 pm
The Ruger 10-22 takedown is great and the Magpul stock is a huge improvement without adding any weight
What's the total weight of the rifle though? Is the magpul stock lighter than the one that comes with it? I assume it is.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by teotwaki » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:32 pm

22 oz. is the weight of the Ruger plastics including the barrel band. (just weighed mine)

18.25 oz is Magpul's stated weight for their stock. Mine is installed so can't weigh it.

Ruger's takedown stated stock rifle weight is 4.6 pounds (73.6 oz)
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
grennels
* * * *
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:04 pm
Location: North Central Ohio

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by grennels » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:47 pm

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/781942900

I have had one for years. Rock solid. Very light.
Shot 'em, now I'm gonna hang 'em, then I'm gonna burn 'em!
Damn Zombies. Can't ever be too dead to suit me.

- with apologies to Larry McMurtry

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:01 pm

grennels wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:47 pm
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/781942900

I have had one for years. Rock solid. Very light.
That's what i learned on. But a much older model and different brand. Kinda long tho. I think a youth model single shot bolt action would be better.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1278
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Road
Location: Crow, WV

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:55 am

I find it difficult to help without first asking more questions. So, what is purpose of tool you seek? This is main question.
How important is weight? Do seek to carry it a certain way or simply conceal it, or both? Have you ever carried little strips of tape to keep pieces in place that you don't want to separate from something?

Everything I own breaks down in some way, depending on how much time you have. For example:
M4- pull pin, break in half, fits in pack.
870 - punch pin, break in half, put in pack.

Everything mentioned so far, I'd guess, would fit your needs. MOAB probably refers to the Marlin Model 60.
If I knew nothing and was just starting I'd probably begin with one of the Ruger10/22 versions because of availability, adaptability and add-ons.
Check this one (but pay no attention to the MSR) for example: https://ruger.com/products/1022Lite/models.html
Yeah, yeah, the 10000 Magnum Elite with zytanium laser dot sight is preferred for crazed, drug-laden, armor-wearing zombies but I prefer the .22 for many reasons; here are a few:

1. The cartridge has been around since Abe Lincoln accepted his party's nomination
2. Easy to carry and store in great numbers
3. Primarily for training and food gathering
4. If it is all that I have, then I'll probably focus on not being seen, heard, or involved in a gunfight
5. Even with sporting clays, I aim for the left eye
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:52 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:55 am
I find it difficult to help without first asking more questions. So, what is purpose of tool you seek? This is main question.
How important is weight? Do seek to carry it a certain way or simply conceal it, or both? Have you ever carried little strips of tape to keep pieces in place that you don't want to separate from something?

Everything I own breaks down in some way, depending on how much time you have. For example:
M4- pull pin, break in half, fits in pack.
870 - punch pin, break in half, put in pack.

Everything mentioned so far, I'd guess, would fit your needs. MOAB probably refers to the Marlin Model 60.
If I knew nothing and was just starting I'd probably begin with one of the Ruger10/22 versions because of availability, adaptability and add-ons.
Check this one (but pay no attention to the MSR) for example: https://ruger.com/products/1022Lite/models.html
Yeah, yeah, the 10000 Magnum Elite with zytanium laser dot sight is preferred for crazed, drug-laden, armor-wearing zombies but I prefer the .22 for many reasons; here are a few:

1. The cartridge has been around since Abe Lincoln accepted his party's nomination
2. Easy to carry and store in great numbers
3. Primarily for training and food gathering
4. If it is all that I have, then I'll probably focus on not being seen, heard, or involved in a gunfight
5. Even with sporting clays, I aim for the left eye
I've never seen one of those. Looks like a matching set to go with their light weight MarkIV pistol or whatever they're calling their .22 target pistols now. It is 4.5lbs though. That still seems heavy to me. But I've never weighed a youth model, fixed stock, .22 single shot, bolt action. But then again even if it was a pound or two lighter. I'd like the ability to be semi auto with a decent sized magazine.

(Being able to shoot follow up shots quickly could make a difference. Multiple birds. Especially with something like larger game - deer say. Yes. My father used to hunt deer with a .22. But he also got up way close (brush of the PNW) and always shot for the big neck vein or the head. I've seen him sneak up on a bedded deer within a few yards or less. Many poachers hunt with .22's so as not to be detected by the report of a larger caliber. My father wasn't a poacher. Just - as my uncles use to call him - "a really good indian". Not the politically correct term of "Native" they use today. But he never called himself that. He was always an "Indian". And very proud of it. He died a few months ago. But taught me so much about living outdoors, hunting, fishing and trapping.)

I wonder if anyone makes a less bulky stock for it? I don't understand why they need to put such a big stock on a break down gun? But maybe the bulk is lighter than it looks. Even so. It would be nice to have a shorter/lighter stock. You really don't need the front half. And the buttstock does not need to be so big. As if it's making up for recoil or something. I wonder if anyone's ever tried to reduce it in a cnc? Don't they make or used to make a sort of hollowed out buttstock on their American series bolt actions? Something like with less stock up front would be very cool.

How accurate are break down 10/22's vs non?
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:12 pm

roOism wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:59 am
Mine is actually a synthetic stock, I'll have to put it on the scale at work sometime but it's super light.

ETA: Bud's Gun Shop has it at 2.66 lbs

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/pro ... olt+Action
I missed this. 2.66lbs?! This should be your go to. For lightweight packable bolt action single shot .22lr. And I love Savage. That's a pretty nice gun for $150! Half the price of a break down 10/22. And probably more reliable long term.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

boskone
* * *
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by boskone » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:06 pm

moab wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:52 pm
Just - as my uncles use to call him - "a really good indian". Not the politically correct term of "Native" they use today. But he never called himself that. He was always an "Indian". And very proud of it. He died a few months ago. But taught me so much about living outdoors, hunting, fishing and trapping.)
ISTR about half of 'em prefer "Indian", a third or so prefer "native American", and the rest either didn't care or didn't like being lumped in. </offtopic>
I wonder if anyone makes a less bulky stock for it? I don't understand why they need to put such a big stock on a break down gun? But maybe the bulk is lighter than it looks. Even so. It would be nice to have a shorter/lighter stock. You really don't need the front half. And the buttstock does not need to be so big. As if it's making up for recoil or something. I wonder if anyone's ever tried to reduce it in a cnc? Don't they make or used to make a sort of hollowed out buttstock on their American series bolt actions? Something like with less stock up front would be very cool.
Magpul's got a couple of takedown stocks. The Hunter X-22 is kinda full-size, but the X-22 is a bit skeletonized with a shorter forearm bit, and the forearm nests in and snaps into the butt.

Dunno if either suits your preferences, or how you feel about paying another $110-150 on a $500 gun.

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:40 pm

boskone wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:06 pm
moab wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:52 pm
Just - as my uncles use to call him - "a really good indian". Not the politically correct term of "Native" they use today. But he never called himself that. He was always an "Indian". And very proud of it. He died a few months ago. But taught me so much about living outdoors, hunting, fishing and trapping.)
ISTR about half of 'em prefer "Indian", a third or so prefer "native American", and the rest either didn't care or didn't like being lumped in. </offtopic>
I wonder if anyone makes a less bulky stock for it? I don't understand why they need to put such a big stock on a break down gun? But maybe the bulk is lighter than it looks. Even so. It would be nice to have a shorter/lighter stock. You really don't need the front half. And the buttstock does not need to be so big. As if it's making up for recoil or something. I wonder if anyone's ever tried to reduce it in a cnc? Don't they make or used to make a sort of hollowed out buttstock on their American series bolt actions? Something like with less stock up front would be very cool.
Magpul's got a couple of takedown stocks. The Hunter X-22 is kinda full-size, but the X-22 is a bit skeletonized with a shorter forearm bit, and the forearm nests in and snaps into the butt.

Dunno if either suits your preferences, or how you feel about paying another $110-150 on a $500 gun.
We lost the OP - bullonparade. Must not be getting his notifications. If I was him I'd go with the Savage .22 and call it a day. Hell I might pick one of those up. Nice rifle for what it's for. And 2.6 lbs is nothing to add to your pack. The barrel might stick out. But it would fit in a 70 or 80L backpack without showing. It's 31.5" long. It also has adjustable peep sights and an accutrigger. I wonder how easy the stock comes off? That would cut the pack size down drastically.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:46 pm

It's drilled and tapped for scopes too. Just watching the video. And the accuracy is "good".

Last edited by moab on Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:57 pm

15 ounces! $425. Most accurate rifle in at least one review I've read so far.

https://www.packrifle.com/shop-pack-rifles-accessories/
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
Asymetryczna
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1278
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Road
Location: Crow, WV

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by Asymetryczna » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:12 am

It lays the barrel on the rest and then performs the accuracy test. *chuckled*
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by teotwaki » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:15 pm

Asymetryczna wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:12 am
It lays the barrel on the rest and then performs the accuracy test. *chuckled*
Look at the comments on Youtube. He was beat up pretty good about that!!
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:40 pm

Anybody found better accuracy tests online for the Savage? I'd like to see someone just shoot with the peep sights.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... p?t=518188

"I can however declare that even the cheap Rossi will hold quarter size groups at 20 yds. with its lousy sights. Saying the Rascal is more accurate is merely saying I shoot tighter groups at the same distance using the same ammo." I can live with smaller than quarter sized groups. Many other reviews have shown similar accuracy. I''m sold on the Savage Rascal. If I ever buy a .22lr pack gun. This will be it.

An image of a range report with scope. I think nutnfancy screwed the pooch on this one. I'm going to find a customization forum for the Rascal. There must be guys out there that have fitted these with the right scope and/or modified the stock to make it even lighter.

Image
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

boskone
* * *
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by boskone » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:54 pm

moab wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... p?t=518188

"I can however declare that even the cheap Rossi will hold quarter size groups at 20 yds. with its lousy sights. Saying the Rascal is more accurate is merely saying I shoot tighter groups at the same distance using the same ammo." I can live with smaller than quarter sized groups. Many other reviews have shown similar accuracy. I''m sold on the Savage Rascal. If I ever buy a .22lr pack gun. This will be it.

An image of a range report with scope. I think nutnfancy screwed the pooch on this one. I'm going to find a customization forum for the Rascal. There must be guys out there that have fitted these with the right scope and/or modified the stock to make it even lighter.
It does seem like it'd be a good fit, especially if one could fabricobble a decent folding stock.

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3705
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by moab » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:57 pm

boskone wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:54 pm
moab wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:05 pm
https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/s ... p?t=518188

"I can however declare that even the cheap Rossi will hold quarter size groups at 20 yds. with its lousy sights. Saying the Rascal is more accurate is merely saying I shoot tighter groups at the same distance using the same ammo." I can live with smaller than quarter sized groups. Many other reviews have shown similar accuracy. I''m sold on the Savage Rascal. If I ever buy a .22lr pack gun. This will be it.

An image of a range report with scope. I think nutnfancy screwed the pooch on this one. I'm going to find a customization forum for the Rascal. There must be guys out there that have fitted these with the right scope and/or modified the stock to make it even lighter.
It does seem like it'd be a good fit, especially if one could fabricobble a decent folding stock.
Even without it folding. It's only 31". I wonder how hard it is to just remove the stock? Looks like two bolts/screws.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
BullOnParade
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 3020
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:10 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario

Re: Take down or traditional

Post by BullOnParade » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:18 pm

Sorry to post and split. I'm (less than) three weeks away from getting married.
Kind of got derailed from my original post. I'm looking at a Chiappa mares leg in .357, and while a lot can be done with a solid 586 (686), or GP100, they don't fit my needs (in Canada). Lots of great options out there for light weight .22, break down or not, but for a compact brush gun, options are often limited. But when it comes to center fire rifles, a mare's leg is the most compact option available to me.

The purpose of this thread was to compare a take down rifle to it's non-take-down counterpart. Browning BLR, Ruger 10/22, Savage 42 ... The list goes on. But besides an AR15 or break action, which of these designs have proven to be solid in the taking down and putting up?
BullOnParade

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

Urban BOB/Range (& Bailout) Bag/EDC/Vehicle Kit

Post Reply

Return to “Longarms - Shotguns and Rifles”