How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by raptor » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:31 pm

For what little bit it is worth my opinion is and will remain that the best firearm and caliber for ANY situation is the one you have in your hand when the situation presents itself. It is up you the shooter to compensate the best you can for any mismatched specs.

Please no caliber wars it is off topic.

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by Halfapint » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:55 pm

When I got into guns I couldn’t find milsurp anywhere. I went to a LGS and and asked if they had a Mosin, they laughed me out of the store. At that time panicks were happening and getting a anything for under 600 was hard.

Since then I’ve just decided I like new rifles, so I’ll stick with them.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by minengr » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:52 am

woodsghost wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
Maybe so - but a one time lucky break is not what I count on. I've heard of people living when their parachute didn't open, but I won't be expecting to be that lucky. Will you?
Honestly? I'll take a 5.56 or 5.45 against a black bear any day that ends in "y." It is the grizzlies which will prove tougher, and the owner of Buffalo Bore says a properly made 9mm with a good shot will do in a grizzly. He has a whole article on it and IIRC claims he has 70 bears worth of experience to prove his point. So I figure if I can train for good shot placement I can do in a grizzly too. I just don't know if a 5.56 or 5.45 are what I'd want for that. I don't know how important mass is (vs Velocity) to shutting down a grizzlie's CNS.

For cougars, I'd take a 5.56 any day of the week.

For moose? I don't know enough to make a really good decision. Other than to say people hunt them with a 44 Mag.

For wolves? 5.56.

For African lions? I don't know enough to make a good decision. Also not a common threat in my area. But slightly more common than wolves. I actually think the zoo has a few.

For alligators? I know people kill them with .22s, so I figure a 5.56 will be ok.

Are there other carnivores to discuss?

Brown bears and African lions are the only really questionable critters I can think of when it comes to the power and capability of 5.56. And I'd rather have the mass of the 7.62x39. But having shot deer with the 7.62x39 I can say I'd rather have more mass and a bigger bullet when shooting for food and shooting 1 bullet. If shooting 15 bullets I don't think that big driving mass matters as much.
I've hunted black bears. I'd personally want something a little bigger.

Griz is another ball game. I've seen them killed with compound bows, but that was when the wind was right, a dude with a big rifle was backup, and most importantly the human was doing the stalking. Yes, a 9mm might work too in that scenario, but a pissed off mamma defending her cubs, coming from out of nowhere is a bit different.

I'm a big fan of the 223/556 and it can be quite effective with the right bullets. Especially in the hands of a good shot. However, when it counts, most fall short of their claimed accuracy.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by Mad Mike » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:09 am

minengr wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
Maybe so - but a one time lucky break is not what I count on. I've heard of people living when their parachute didn't open, but I won't be expecting to be that lucky. Will you?
Honestly? I'll take a 5.56 or 5.45 against a black bear any day that ends in "y." It is the grizzlies which will prove tougher, and the owner of Buffalo Bore says a properly made 9mm with a good shot will do in a grizzly. He has a whole article on it and IIRC claims he has 70 bears worth of experience to prove his point. So I figure if I can train for good shot placement I can do in a grizzly too. I just don't know if a 5.56 or 5.45 are what I'd want for that. I don't know how important mass is (vs Velocity) to shutting down a grizzlie's CNS.

For cougars, I'd take a 5.56 any day of the week.

For moose? I don't know enough to make a really good decision. Other than to say people hunt them with a 44 Mag.

For wolves? 5.56.

For African lions? I don't know enough to make a good decision. Also not a common threat in my area. But slightly more common than wolves. I actually think the zoo has a few.

For alligators? I know people kill them with .22s, so I figure a 5.56 will be ok.

Are there other carnivores to discuss?

Brown bears and African lions are the only really questionable critters I can think of when it comes to the power and capability of 5.56. And I'd rather have the mass of the 7.62x39. But having shot deer with the 7.62x39 I can say I'd rather have more mass and a bigger bullet when shooting for food and shooting 1 bullet. If shooting 15 bullets I don't think that big driving mass matters as much.
I've hunted black bears. I'd personally want something a little bigger.

Griz is another ball game. I've seen them killed with compound bows, but that was when the wind was right, a dude with a big rifle was backup, and most importantly the human was doing the stalking. Yes, a 9mm might work too in that scenario, but a pissed off mamma defending her cubs, coming from out of nowhere is a bit different.

I'm a big fan of the 223/556 and it can be quite effective with the right bullets. Especially in the hands of a good shot. However, when it counts, most fall short of their claimed accuracy.
According to what I read, that 9mm griz was taken at close range with a shot to the brain. That will take the fight out of anything.... :ooh:

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by woodsghost » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:50 am

What I have been saying is a CNS hit does a lot. Much like a human, it is the only sure stop. Everything else is variable.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by Mad Mike » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:56 am

woodsghost wrote:What I have been saying is a CNS hit does a lot. Much like a human, it is the only sure stop. Everything else is variable.

Yep, but the problem is being able to make one under any and all conditions.....

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by echo83 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:15 pm

Man, this thread got depressing in a hurry.

In Massachusetts, where the import and sale of any AR-style rifle into the state has been outlawed, I can absolutely see the allure of going milsurp, specifically Eastern Bloc.

For example, here's a list of what's banned:

http://www.mass.gov/ago/public-safety/awbe.html

An SKS specifically meets a ton of the items on a checklist here: semi-auto, no detachable mag, easy to maintain, no scary black rifle looks/features, and when all else fails, curio and relic status.

As expected, though, SKS prices have followed a Mosin-Nagant style trajectory.

I've been interested in one, but I think I've missed the boat.

I wonder what the next milsurp rifle is going to be?

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:43 pm

Mad Mike wrote:
woodsghost wrote:What I have been saying is a CNS hit does a lot. Much like a human, it is the only sure stop. Everything else is variable.

Yep, but the problem is being able to make one under any and all conditions.....
Thats been my argument. WG and I have been pm'ing. I love him. But man, I'm telling ya. Get out in the woods. See a bear or wolf. And then decide what you want to use as protection.

It's the old saying. Every game plan goes out the window as soon as you get hit in the face. LOL. Except bears only have to hit once and your ko'd.

I would much prefer a reliable semi auto AK or AK shotgun. I don't trust my reload ability with a bolt action in such a ramped up situation. Even a pump shotgun can be mis loaded. In excitement.

I did some reading last night on AK's in Alaska. Trying to get more info on rifles against bears etc. One guy was doubting an AK could maintain in the cold. That it would lock up. But isn't like one third of Russia in the arctic or arctic like conditions? I have a feeling an AK would do just fine in Alaska. Certainly better than an AR. I've seen those jamb in the cold. But I think that has a lot to do with choice of lube. But even with that I think the loose tolerances of the AK favor a colder climate. Than an AR. They do use pump shotguns as bear protection in the oil fields up there. I think if I had that job I'd want my VEPR12 by my side. With a fat old 8 or 10rd magazine. Ready to throw lead as fast as 10 pulls of the trigger. Well aimed or not. I think I'd load slug, 00 buck, slub, 00 buck etc etc. Just in the off chance that the big old crap I took in my pants doesn't throw off my aim. ;)
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:50 pm

echo83 wrote:Man, this thread got depressing in a hurry.

In Massachusetts, where the import and sale of any AR-style rifle into the state has been outlawed, I can absolutely see the allure of going milsurp, specifically Eastern Bloc.

For example, here's a list of what's banned:

http://www.mass.gov/ago/public-safety/awbe.html

An SKS specifically meets a ton of the items on a checklist here: semi-auto, no detachable mag, easy to maintain, no scary black rifle looks/features, and when all else fails, curio and relic status.

As expected, though, SKS prices have followed a Mosin-Nagant style trajectory.

I've been interested in one, but I think I've missed the boat.

I wonder what the next milsurp rifle is going to be?
Yes. It is depressing. But I'm still building AK's for $500-$600. So there's at least that. But I've got a good grand in tools. And years of experience.

I swear CA and MA should just form their own state. I hate it here. Can't wait to move next summer.

An SKS aint' bad. Neutering it's mag ability sucks tho. I remember those stupid import mags with the one little tiny screw to screw it into the wood stock. To make it legal at the time. Don't recall which law that was. But at least you get those. Probably banned in CA. My SKS is back in WA. Waiting for me. It's a super reliable gun. I wouldn't mind it against bear with a full 30rd mag. I like the quickness of the traditional stock. And that round is certianly good enough.

Maybe that's why the price is so ridiculous on them. To many states that's all you can have I suppose.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by flybynight » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:14 pm

moab wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
woodsghost wrote:What I have been saying is a CNS hit does a lot. Much like a human, it is the only sure stop. Everything else is variable.

Yep, but the problem is being able to make one under any and all conditions.....
Thats been my argument. WG and I have been pm'ing. I love him. But man, I'm telling ya. Get out in the woods. See a bear or wolf. And then decide what you want to use as protection.

It's the old saying. Every game plan goes out the window as soon as you get hit in the face. LOL. Except bears only have to hit once and your ko'd.

I would much prefer a reliable semi auto AK or AK shotgun. I don't trust my reload ability with a bolt action in such a ramped up situation. Even a pump shotgun can be mis loaded. In excitement.

I did some reading last night on AK's in Alaska. Trying to get more info on rifles against bears etc. One guy was doubting an AK could maintain in the cold. That it would lock up. But isn't like one third of Russia in the arctic or arctic like conditions? I have a feeling an AK would do just fine in Alaska. Certainly better than an AR. I've seen those jamb in the cold. But I think that has a lot to do with choice of lube. But even with that I think the loose tolerances of the AK favor a colder climate. Than an AR. They do use pump shotguns as bear protection in the oil fields up there. I think if I had that job I'd want my VEPR12 by my side. With a fat old 8 or 10rd magazine. Ready to throw lead as fast as 10 pulls of the trigger. Well aimed or not. I think I'd load slug, 00 buck, slub, 00 buck etc etc. Just in the off chance that the big old crap I took in my pants doesn't throw off my aim. ;)
Wouldn't that be the same as saying , I don't trust myself to take off the safety ability in such a ramped up situation? Something about training, practice and muscle memory. My experience in guided hunts for dangerous game ( or areas with dangerous game ) is right around zero. What do professional guides carry as back up arms to their client?
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:25 pm

flybynight wrote:
moab wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
woodsghost wrote:What I have been saying is a CNS hit does a lot. Much like a human, it is the only sure stop. Everything else is variable.

Yep, but the problem is being able to make one under any and all conditions.....
Thats been my argument. WG and I have been pm'ing. I love him. But man, I'm telling ya. Get out in the woods. See a bear or wolf. And then decide what you want to use as protection.

It's the old saying. Every game plan goes out the window as soon as you get hit in the face. LOL. Except bears only have to hit once and your ko'd.

I would much prefer a reliable semi auto AK or AK shotgun. I don't trust my reload ability with a bolt action in such a ramped up situation. Even a pump shotgun can be mis loaded. In excitement.

I did some reading last night on AK's in Alaska. Trying to get more info on rifles against bears etc. One guy was doubting an AK could maintain in the cold. That it would lock up. But isn't like one third of Russia in the arctic or arctic like conditions? I have a feeling an AK would do just fine in Alaska. Certainly better than an AR. I've seen those jamb in the cold. But I think that has a lot to do with choice of lube. But even with that I think the loose tolerances of the AK favor a colder climate. Than an AR. They do use pump shotguns as bear protection in the oil fields up there. I think if I had that job I'd want my VEPR12 by my side. With a fat old 8 or 10rd magazine. Ready to throw lead as fast as 10 pulls of the trigger. Well aimed or not. I think I'd load slug, 00 buck, slub, 00 buck etc etc. Just in the off chance that the big old crap I took in my pants doesn't throw off my aim. ;)
Wouldn't that be the same as saying , I don't trust myself to take off the safety ability in such a ramped up situation? Something about training, practice and muscle memory. My experience in guided hunts for dangerous game ( or areas with dangerous game ) is right around zero. What do professional guides carry as back up arms to their client?
Shotguns. Large caliber pistols and bolt action rifles.

"Wouldn't that be the same as saying , I don't trust myself to take off the safety ability in such a ramped up situation? "

Not sure what your saying.

But I'm just saying take as much of the bumps out of your plan as you can. But each person has his or her own preference. Mine is simply that I trust a reliable semi auto AK over a bolt action in a high stress situation like a charging bear. Same for pump action. I just know that "I" can be my fastest with a semi auto. Over a manual pump or bolt action. So I'd take as much of the movement out of my plan as possible. In other words, I don't have to reload. Just pull the trigger.

I'm also going to take out as much possibility for human error as possible. I'm going to prepare for the worst case scenario. I'm going to assume that things will go bad. That I will need to fire more than one well placed shot. That the bear will not go down. And given the opportunity over reloading a bolt gun, shotgun or reliable semi auto. I choose the semi auto. Not every semi auto. Just an AK47 or AK12.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:46 pm

echo83 wrote:Man, this thread got depressing in a hurry.

In Massachusetts, where the import and sale of any AR-style rifle into the state has been outlawed, I can absolutely see the allure of going milsurp, specifically Eastern Bloc.

For example, here's a list of what's banned:

http://www.mass.gov/ago/public-safety/awbe.html

An SKS specifically meets a ton of the items on a checklist here: semi-auto, no detachable mag, easy to maintain, no scary black rifle looks/features, and when all else fails, curio and relic status.

As expected, though, SKS prices have followed a Mosin-Nagant style trajectory.

I've been interested in one, but I think I've missed the boat.

I wonder what the next milsurp rifle is going to be?
For those in very restrictive states like you, I get it.
It's been my belief for a long time that if I couldn't have my AR because I lived in a restrictive state, I'd be going with an SKS with the fixed mag to be fed by stripper clips, a red dot cowitnessed with the iron sights if possible, and a synthetic non pistol grip stock. It would get past most restrictions, they do make five round mags for really restrictive states, except of course once they start banning semi autos it's done.

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by RickOShea » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:59 pm

ManInBlack316 wrote: It would get past most restrictions, they do make five round mags for really restrictive states, except of course once they start banning semi autos it's done.
Welp, there's always the pump-action rifles. :awesome:


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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:03 pm

RickOShea wrote:
raptor wrote:I am wondering when new Garand production will commence. Seriously they have commercially produced carbine, Thompsons and of course 1911. Why not new Garand proction?
Not exactly "new production", but they've been churning them out for a good while now...

http://www.fulton-armory.com/M1-Garand-Rifles.aspx


Surplus wise, The CMP is supposed to be getting around 100,000 Garands back from Turkey and the Philippines here pretty soon.



All these years and I just "got" your username. I literally always looked at it and thought oh the guys name is Rick O'Shea. Not Ricochet! LMAO! Good one.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:06 pm

RickOShea wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote: It would get past most restrictions, they do make five round mags for really restrictive states, except of course once they start banning semi autos it's done.
Welp, there's always the pump-action rifles. :awesome:


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I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Ya. I did.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by echo83 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:42 pm

moab wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote: It would get past most restrictions, they do make five round mags for really restrictive states, except of course once they start banning semi autos it's done.
Welp, there's always the pump-action rifles. :awesome:


Image

Image
I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Ya. I did.

My last post didn't go up. My word, those are hideous. The way things are going here, those will be banned for having scary-looking features, too.

I don't think one can do any better than the SKS, for a semi-auto milsurp.

A casual search has listings starting at $500. Brutal.

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:47 pm

echo83 wrote:
moab wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
ManInBlack316 wrote: It would get past most restrictions, they do make five round mags for really restrictive states, except of course once they start banning semi autos it's done.
Welp, there's always the pump-action rifles. :awesome:


Image

Image
I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

Ya. I did.

My last post didn't go up. My word, those are hideous. The way things are going here, those will be banned for having scary-looking features, too.

I don't think one can do any better than the SKS, for a semi-auto milsurp.

A casual search has listings starting at $500. Brutal.
Ya. I just saw a mauser for like $400. $400 you could buy a really nice modern bolt action with a scope. And for $500 that SKS money would be better spent on an AR. Or even an AK. If your state allows them.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by woodsghost » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:52 pm

moab wrote:
Mad Mike wrote:
woodsghost wrote:What I have been saying is a CNS hit does a lot. Much like a human, it is the only sure stop. Everything else is variable.

Yep, but the problem is being able to make one under any and all conditions.....
Thats been my argument. WG and I have been pm'ing. I love him. But man, I'm telling ya. Get out in the woods. See a bear or wolf. And then decide what you want to use as protection.

It's the old saying. Every game plan goes out the window as soon as you get hit in the face. LOL. Except bears only have to hit once and your ko'd.
Look. I have no problem with black bears. A buddy has a picture he took of one a few miles from my parents house. It is treed because it was more scared of him than he was of it. And black bears are not a common problem where I grew up. But the friends I have who camp in black bear country have found them to not be an issue unless they leave food out.

I grew up with a mountain lion. Thought it was a big dog till I looked up the difference between dog and cat tracks. People and friends in the area have game Cam footage and witnessed it for years. When I met the lion one night camping I was rather terrified. I did not poop myself but I stayed on the other side of the log hoping and praying it would not get closer. So I upgraded from a H&R SS 20 ga to a .38. I figured one shot might scare it away and the other five would be contact shots.

And the diseased raccoon walking right up to the fire was a bit nerve wracking.

But you are right. I've not been with wolves or grizzlies. But I have been scared. And no one in my circle have had bad times with black bears. A mountain lion attacked a friend and seriously messed up his dog. Well, my friend was not harmed because his dog got the worst of it. So I have a lot less fear of black bears than mountain lions.

Just where I am at.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by The Twizzler » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:38 pm

Hmm, lots of good points made. My only argument for Mil surps in a bug out criteria would be this. I always wanted a (insert milsurp gun) from when I was a kid. I promised that when I could afford one I would buy one. I don't have the money to buy my mislurp and a modern gun. I choose the milsurp because it' not gonna get cheaper (meaning I am less and less likely to buy one in the future). I also say to myself I can always buy a new gun but this is my chance to buy my dream gun. My dream gun while not ideal can perform okay in any scenario while I save for another modern gun. I mean imagine It's 1980 and you could buy a Luger for 150 bucks and now a good one costs well over a thousand. The Luger's not better than a Berreta 92 but it would have at least been serviceable and not out of your price range in the 80's.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:52 pm

Aside from a bug-out gun, I still find milsurps to be kinda cool.

My mosin m44 has journeyed with me on many adventures in the woods and is a hoot at the range (big fire balls). I still think milsurps are great camp/hunting options if you find a deal. Plus, the mosins ergonomics fit me strangely well so it's intuition when aiming and shooting... Very little effort to ring bulls eyes.

On a wilderness defense bugout situation, most black bears on the east coast aren't much bigger than a large dog. Probably 200 pounds. If ones been raiding trash cans, he might get up to 300-400. That's a big maybe. Considering proper bullets in a .223 can be used for white tail deer that weigh 150ish pounds, I think an AR isn't a terrible (Still not the best) idea since you have 30 rounds on tap. So it's platform and geographically based. Looking at energy in isolation, both the 44 mag (bear defense revolver standard) and 5.56 average 1200ft/lbs of energy.

I've posted about my dealings with black bear on here, and I actually recommended my future father in law to use his AR with Federal fusions as opposed to his 30-06 ruger American with a 3-9x scope if the bear came back to cause problems on their land. I felt quantity was better than quality under pressure and up close.

On a side note, I wish milsurps were cheaper to build off of than ARs. I want to build a custom bolt gun and a basic bolt gun will cost more than 2x the money than a premium AR build.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by Mad Mike » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:57 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:Aside from a bug-out gun, I still find milsurps to be kinda cool.

My mosin m44 has journeyed with me on many adventures in the woods and is a hoot at the range (big fire balls). I still think milsurps are great camp/hunting options if you find a deal. Plus, the mosins ergonomics fit me strangely well so it's intuition when aiming and shooting... Very little effort to ring bulls eyes.

On a wilderness defense bugout situation, most black bears on the east coast aren't much bigger than a large dog. Probably 200 pounds. If ones been raiding trash cans, he might get up to 300-400. That's a big maybe. Considering proper bullets in a .223 can be used for white tail deer that weigh 150ish pounds, I think an AR isn't a terrible (Still not the best) idea since you have 30 rounds on tap. So it's platform and geographically based. Looking at energy in isolation, both the 44 mag (bear defense revolver standard) and 5.56 average 1200ft/lbs of energy.

I've posted about my dealings with black bear on here, and I actually recommended my future father in law to use his AR with Federal fusions as opposed to his 30-06 ruger American with a 3-9x scope if the bear came back to cause problems on their land. I felt quantity was better than quality under pressure and up close.

On a side note, I wish milsurps were cheaper to build off of than ARs. I want to build a custom bolt gun and a basic bolt gun will cost more than 2x the money than a premium AR build.
quantity MAY be better than quality - but only if you have time to use it.
this sounds a lot like "spray and pray" to me.

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:00 am

Mad Mike wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:Aside from a bug-out gun, I still find milsurps to be kinda cool.

My mosin m44 has journeyed with me on many adventures in the woods and is a hoot at the range (big fire balls). I still think milsurps are great camp/hunting options if you find a deal. Plus, the mosins ergonomics fit me strangely well so it's intuition when aiming and shooting... Very little effort to ring bulls eyes.

On a wilderness defense bugout situation, most black bears on the east coast aren't much bigger than a large dog. Probably 200 pounds. If ones been raiding trash cans, he might get up to 300-400. That's a big maybe. Considering proper bullets in a .223 can be used for white tail deer that weigh 150ish pounds, I think an AR isn't a terrible (Still not the best) idea since you have 30 rounds on tap. So it's platform and geographically based. Looking at energy in isolation, both the 44 mag (bear defense revolver standard) and 5.56 average 1200ft/lbs of energy.

I've posted about my dealings with black bear on here, and I actually recommended my future father in law to use his AR with Federal fusions as opposed to his 30-06 ruger American with a 3-9x scope if the bear came back to cause problems on their land. I felt quantity was better than quality under pressure and up close.

On a side note, I wish milsurps were cheaper to build off of than ARs. I want to build a custom bolt gun and a basic bolt gun will cost more than 2x the money than a premium AR build.
quantity MAY be better than quality - but only if you have time to use it.
this sounds a lot like "spray and pray" to me.
Yep, that's my belief and my point! I'd rather have the ability to spray and pray than expect to have time to take that 1 perfect shot.
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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by moab » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:41 am

Mad Mike wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:Aside from a bug-out gun, I still find milsurps to be kinda cool.

My mosin m44 has journeyed with me on many adventures in the woods and is a hoot at the range (big fire balls). I still think milsurps are great camp/hunting options if you find a deal. Plus, the mosins ergonomics fit me strangely well so it's intuition when aiming and shooting... Very little effort to ring bulls eyes.

On a wilderness defense bugout situation, most black bears on the east coast aren't much bigger than a large dog. Probably 200 pounds. If ones been raiding trash cans, he might get up to 300-400. That's a big maybe. Considering proper bullets in a .223 can be used for white tail deer that weigh 150ish pounds, I think an AR isn't a terrible (Still not the best) idea since you have 30 rounds on tap. So it's platform and geographically based. Looking at energy in isolation, both the 44 mag (bear defense revolver standard) and 5.56 average 1200ft/lbs of energy.

I've posted about my dealings with black bear on here, and I actually recommended my future father in law to use his AR with Federal fusions as opposed to his 30-06 ruger American with a 3-9x scope if the bear came back to cause problems on their land. I felt quantity was better than quality under pressure and up close.

On a side note, I wish milsurps were cheaper to build off of than ARs. I want to build a custom bolt gun and a basic bolt gun will cost more than 2x the money than a premium AR build.
quantity MAY be better than quality - but only if you have time to use it.
this sounds a lot like "spray and pray" to me.
Madmike - Why so angry?:)

Jeepers - I hear you. I love my Mauser. Someone brought it back from the war. I think a brother in law of an uncle. But back in the 50's my Dad bought it for $20. And used it for decades on deer in the PNW. Then he gave it to my uncle. And he used it for years on deer. AFter 20 years. He gave it back to my Dad. And my father gave it to me. It has all the markings intact. And the wood is so shiny from being held all those years. It's just got a patina you can't find anywhere else. And it's 8mm. I love 8mm. And I love that gun.

So ya. I got me some milsurp love too. lol! Don't get me started on my SKS I bought for $65 back in '85. :)
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

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Re: How can you buy milsurp in today's market?

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:32 pm

When I first started out buying guns, milsurp was my only option due to my budget. I was a 20 year old kid working a very small number of hours at the local Dollar General and whatever money didn't go to bills and food, went to my gun fund. Eventually, I had enough money to buy a used gun and decided on an SKS from a small 'Mom and Pop' type store in Groves Texas.

I put down the 185 bucks it took for the rifle, filled out the 4473 paperwork, chatted with the owner for a bit and was handed my first center fire rifle after I was cleared.

That SKS served me well for a number of years until I bought my first AK and after that, it got pushed aside and later traded to a friend.

I wish I still had that old SKS, now that I think about it.

My second milsurp rifle was a Mosin, which I think everyone has owned at one point or another. I spotted it in the rack at a Big 5 store in New Mexico and again, I put down the money, filled out the paperwork and was handed my rifle after being cleared by the Feds.

That rifle only cost me 100 bucks total and it's been a fun little gun (despite being a five foot long spear that happens to shoot bullets). I see Mosins like mine going for 300 to 400 bucks now and while I've been tempted to sell it, I know I'll never be able to replace it because the prices are climbing. I may sell it for 400 bucks one day, but I know it'll cost me that or more to buy another one.

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