Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

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Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by gunsandrockets » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:08 am

I'm starting with some various .410 buckshot loads. Others loads and other gauges will follow. Measured with digital kitchen scale.

Federal #4 buckshot (9 pellets) 3 inch shell = 19.5 grams

Winchester 000 buckshot (3 pellets) 2.5 inch shell = 19.8 grams

Federal 000 buckshot (4 pellets) 2.5 inch shell = 22.9 grams

Winchester 000 buckshot (5 pellets) 3 inch shell = 28.8 grams



(for reference, one cartridge of Federal .223 55 grain FMJ = 11.8 grams)
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by ssdtopgun » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:25 pm

Just curious, what is the purpose of determining the weight of these shells?

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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by teotwaki » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:20 pm

ssdtopgun wrote:Just curious, what is the purpose of determining the weight of these shells?
My first guess is that it is useful for figuring the weight of ammo for a combat load-out, get home bag, inch bag etc.

I would prefer measurements in ounces.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by w3rdtoyamama » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:20 pm

I would not recommend the 410 for anything other than small game or home defense for younger kids/new shooter adults. However, I love the damn cartridge. I have a S&W Governor. I have a single shot and a pump. Sure, the slugs will pack a punch...but for a cheaper cartridge, you can easily get more power as well. Id like to know exactly the purpose of knowing weights.
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by gunsandrockets » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:55 pm

teotwaki wrote:
ssdtopgun wrote:Just curious, what is the purpose of determining the weight of these shells?
My first guess is that it is useful for figuring the weight of ammo for a combat load-out, get home bag, inch bag etc.

I would prefer measurements in ounces.... :mrgreen:

How about rounds per pound?
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by gunsandrockets » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:10 pm

w3rdtoyamama wrote:I would not recommend the 410 for anything other than small game or home defense for younger kids/new shooter adults. However, I love the damn cartridge. I have a S&W Governor. I have a single shot and a pump. Sure, the slugs will pack a punch...but for a cheaper cartridge, you can easily get more power as well. Id like to know exactly the purpose of knowing weights.
A 000 buckshot pellet from a .410 does identical damage at identical range to a 000 buckshot pellet fired from a 12 gauge. The same goes for #4 buckshot or any other size buckshot shared by the different shotgun gauges. The only difference in the gauges is the number of pellets and dispersion of pellets.

My current favorite SD load is 18 pellets of #2 buckshot from a 3 inch 20 gauge shell.

But shotgun load selection all depends on exactly what you want to accomplish, of course.

I have some testing yet to do, but I suspect 000 buckshot from the .410 shotgun with the right choke might make for an effective multi-ball salvo combat load up to 100 yards range. Sort of a poor mans burst firing 7.65mm SMG.
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:15 pm

gunsandrockets wrote:
w3rdtoyamama wrote:I would not recommend the 410 for anything other than small game or home defense for younger kids/new shooter adults. However, I love the damn cartridge. I have a S&W Governor. I have a single shot and a pump. Sure, the slugs will pack a punch...but for a cheaper cartridge, you can easily get more power as well. Id like to know exactly the purpose of knowing weights.
A 000 buckshot pellet from a .410 does identical damage at identical range to a 000 buckshot pellet fired from a 12 gauge. The same goes for #4 buckshot or any other size buckshot shared by the different shotgun gauges. The only difference in the gauges is the number of pellets and dispersion of pellets.

My current favorite SD load is 18 pellets of #2 buckshot from a 3 inch 20 gauge shell.

But shotgun load selection all depends on exactly what you want to accomplish, of course.

I have some testing yet to do, but I suspect 000 buckshot from the .410 shotgun with the right choke might make for an effective multi-ball salvo combat load up to 100 yards range. Sort of a poor mans burst firing 7.65mm SMG.
Well yes a single ball will have the same effect as a single 12 GA ball but the round itself will have less energy due to having less mass of pellets. Only hits count and with much fewer pellets = much fewer hits.

At 75 yards a 00 fired from a 12 GA is extremely unlikely to hit a man sized target with anything other than a very tight choke. At 100 yards it would be pure blind luck, with at least half the pellets striking the ground by then. Spread would be 5-10 feet.

Even with a super tight choke by 100 yards the 00 buck will be under the energy level of .22lr round (54gr/ 6-700fps). Except that the .22 provides a much better size and shape for penetration.
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by Halfapint » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:04 pm

gunsandrockets wrote:I'm starting with some various .410 buckshot loads. Others loads and other gauges will follow. Measured with digital kitchen scale.

Federal #4 buckshot (9 pellets) 3 inch shell = 19.5 grams

Winchester 000 buckshot (3 pellets) 2.5 inch shell = 19.8 grams

Federal 000 buckshot (4 pellets) 2.5 inch shell = 22.9 grams

Winchester 000 buckshot (5 pellets) 3 inch shell = 28.8 grams



(for reference, one cartridge of Federal .223 55 grain FMJ = 11.8 grams)
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by gunsandrockets » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:34 pm

Stercutus wrote:
gunsandrockets wrote:
w3rdtoyamama wrote:I would not recommend the 410
A 000 buckshot pellet from a .410 does identical damage at identical range to a 000 buckshot pellet fired from a 12 gauge. The same goes for #4 buckshot or any other size buckshot shared by the different shotgun gauges. The only difference in the gauges is the number of pellets and dispersion of pellets.


I have some testing yet to do, but I suspect 000 buckshot from the .410 shotgun with the right choke might make for an effective multi-ball salvo combat load up to 100 yards range. Sort of a poor mans burst firing 7.65mm SMG.
Well yes a single ball will have the same effect as a single 12 GA ball but the round itself will have less energy due to having less mass of pellets. Only hits count and with much fewer pellets = much fewer hits.

At 75 yards a 00 fired from a 12 GA is extremely unlikely to hit a man sized target with anything other than a very tight choke. At 100 yards it would be pure blind luck, with at least half the pellets striking the ground by then. Spread would be 5-10 feet.

Even with a super tight choke by 100 yards the 00 buck will be under the energy level of .22lr round (54gr/ 6-700fps). Except that the .22 provides a much better size and shape for penetration.
Yes, a 12 gauge firing 00 buckshot is an impractical weapon beyond 30-40 yards for all the reasons you mentioned.

Good thing I'm talking about 000 buckshot from a .410, eh?
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by gunsandrockets » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:39 pm

Halfapint wrote:
gunsandrockets wrote:)
Absolutely LOVE that you are doing this! I love information and dunno why I never thought of it.
You're welcome. :mrgreen:

Feel free to add to the pool of measurements; measurement you yourself take of interesting ammunition you may have laying about your abode.
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by woodsghost » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:56 pm

gunsandrockets wrote:
I have some testing yet to do, but I suspect 000 buckshot from the .410 shotgun with the right choke might make for an effective multi-ball salvo combat load up to 100 yards range. Sort of a poor mans burst firing 7.65mm SMG.
Stercutus wrote: ....
At 75 yards a 00 fired from a 12 GA is extremely unlikely to hit a man sized target with anything other than a very tight choke. At 100 yards it would be pure blind luck, with at least half the pellets striking the ground by then. Spread would be 5-10 feet.

Even with a super tight choke by 100 yards the 00 buck will be under the energy level of .22lr round (54gr/ 6-700fps). Except that the .22 provides a much better size and shape for penetration.
I"m not sure tighter chokes will do much to improve 3-5 000 balls stacked on top of each other. The way a choke works, as I understand, is it squishes a mass of smaller projectiles closer together. There seems to be a general finding that 00 Buck through most chokes results in so much deformation that the groups get worse than in C/IC bores. However, some people report improvements in group size with chokes and 00 Buck.

On the other hand, the evidence (and I had to look it up to double check myself) shows those improvements with chokes tend to be negligible. Lower velocity, flight control (or equivalent) wads, buffering materials, and plating of lead shot seem to have much larger effects. Wadding seems to have the largest effect. The important things are to reduce deformation and hold the pellets together for longer.

guns, I'd love to see your results. Right now the only person I can find patterning 00/000 Buck out of full length barrels is this guy:

Skip to 1:30 for sanity and 3:25 to get to the point.



I would NOT use .410 out of the various 2-4 inch barreled guns. The velocity is just not there. Out of test barrels the velocity is near 1150-1300 fps, which is pretty cool (this is based on random loads I googled). The mass of a 000 Buck is ~70 gr. The mass of 00 Buck is ~59 gr. The muzzle velocity is close to that of a .22, while the mass is 50-100% more than a .22 (assuming 35-40 gr). Now, I can't calculate velocity at 100 y/m, but I"m pretty sure the larger mass will give the edge to the buck shot at 100 yards. The larger diameter will also likely make it more lethal.

If we are comparing buck shot at 100 y/m to .22 at the muzzle, this is limited in it's utility. But if we are comparing .22 and buckshot at 100 y/m, I simply can't come up with the numbers to know exactly how they will perform.

So the questions then are "how much spread is there" at 100 y/m and "is the gun still useful with that much spread?" The answer to the second question is a bit personal. The answer to the first one .... well it needs answering! Gunsandrockets! Get busy sciencing!!!!!!
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Re: Weight of various shotgun shells, in grams per cartridge

Post by gunsandrockets » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:46 am

Some 12 gauge shell measurements:

Winchester #4 buckshot unplated (27 pellets) 2-3/4 inch shell = 48.4 grams (or 9 shells per pound)

Winchester #1 buckshot (24 pellets) 3 inch shell = 70.6 grams (or 6 shells per pound)

Remington 00 buckshot (9 pellets) 2-3/4 inch shell = 46.6 grams (or 10 shells per pound)

Winchester 00 buckshot plated (12 pellets) 2-3/4 inch shell = 55.4 grams (or 8 shells per pound)
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