Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

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Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Tue May 24, 2016 10:51 pm

So I've had my eye on these for about 10 years now (partly due to the Battlestar Galactica re-boot) but also to pair with my 92.

I've emalied Beretta about them several times over the past few years, and have been informed each time that their production line was almost completely devoted to fulfilling a large military contract for MX4 (military FA version), but that the civilian version would be a available in the US again 'soon'.

So today I was looking. I found the usual 2 or 3 used guns on gunsamerica and gunbroker........ But then I saw Cabela's and Bud's and few others had factory new pieces... Even 'obsolete' .45 ACP models.

Is our wait finally over?
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Tue May 24, 2016 11:40 pm

What military is using a full auto version of the CX4 ?

I remember seeing a bunch of them all the time at the Gander Mountain in Beaumont Texas when I was first starting out buying guns, but it's been a long time since I've seen any.

I see more of those Keltec Sub2k rifles and Hi-point carbines nowadays.

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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Tue May 24, 2016 11:56 pm

India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed May 25, 2016 12:47 am

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
I had always assumed the MP5 was the most widely used pistol caliber submachine gun, but I guess I was wrong on some counts.

Looks like I need to brush up on my military knowledge now. I'm ok with that since it gives me something to do when I get bored. :D

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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed May 25, 2016 6:19 am

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
I had always assumed the MP5 was the most widely used pistol caliber submachine gun, but I guess I was wrong on some counts.

Looks like I need to brush up on my military knowledge now. I'm ok with that since it gives me something to do when I get bored. :D
They're also like 2-3x the cost, and parts sourcing is tough. One of the big reasons for the move from the MP5 to AR15s for SWAT was the cost of MP5 parts and capable armorers.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Wed May 25, 2016 9:28 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
I had always assumed the MP5 was the most widely used pistol caliber submachine gun, but I guess I was wrong on some counts.

Looks like I need to brush up on my military knowledge now. I'm ok with that since it gives me something to do when I get bored. :D
They're also like 2-3x the cost, and parts sourcing is tough. One of the big reasons for the move from the MP5 to AR15s for SWAT was the cost of MP5 parts and capable armorers.
Also, the MX4 and CX4 can be configured to accept clips from every full size Beretta pistol. The MP5 doesn't do this without custom gunsmith work.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Assault Life » Wed May 25, 2016 2:11 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
I had always assumed the MP5 was the most widely used pistol caliber submachine gun, but I guess I was wrong on some counts.

Looks like I need to brush up on my military knowledge now. I'm ok with that since it gives me something to do when I get bored. :D
They're also like 2-3x the cost, and parts sourcing is tough. One of the big reasons for the move from the MP5 to AR15s for SWAT was the cost of MP5 parts and capable armorers.
Also, the MX4 and CX4 can be configured to accept clips from every full size Beretta pistol. The MP5 doesn't do this without custom gunsmith work.
You mean magazines.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed May 25, 2016 3:10 pm

Assault Life wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote: Also, the MX4 and CX4 can be configured to accept clips from every full size Beretta pistol. The MP5 doesn't do this without custom gunsmith work.
You mean magazines.
Clip-azines. I load them with my shell-bullets. Only magazine I use is "Better Homes and Gardens" while I take a tactical dump in my commode-john-toilet.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Wed May 25, 2016 3:22 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Assault Life wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote: Also, the MX4 and CX4 can be configured to accept clips from every full size Beretta pistol. The MP5 doesn't do this without custom gunsmith work.
You mean magazines.
Clip-azines. I load them with my shell-bullets. Only magazine I use is "Better Homes and Gardens" while I take a tactical dump in my commode-john-toilet.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by The Twizzler » Wed May 25, 2016 6:02 pm

So what you're really saying is the Venezuelans couldn't pay up. The top brass at Beretta decided "let's sell them to the Americans." Maybe a few autos will slip in like the Russian Makarovs :clap:


Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Wed May 25, 2016 6:38 pm

The Twizzler wrote:So what you're really saying is the Venezuelans couldn't pay up. The top brass at Beretta decided "let's sell them to the Americans." Maybe a few autos will slip in like the Russian Makarovs :clap:


Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
Unfortunately, The Gun Control Act of 1968 bans the importation of any foreign made Class III items. The MX4 are made in Italy. (CX4 are the semi-auto and fully legal. But I believe they are subject to 922r restrictions.)

But even if Beretta moved this line to their American location they would still not legally be available to private citizens under current US law. The Firearm Owner's Protection Act of 1986 bans the sale, manufacture or transfer of any non-previously registered machine gun.

For an explanation of why an anti gun law would have a pro gun sounding name, look up the history of the legislation. In short, pro gun side gave up new machine guns for added protection against marginally legal ATF raids and lawsuits.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by The Twizzler » Wed May 25, 2016 7:31 pm

Fortunately, when an overly bureaucratic state combines a need for income production along with a work ethic that never shambles out of bed these things happen. I put the Makarov example in there on purpose. We imported a bunch from then Yugoslavia ( or Bulgaria I cant remember) but none of them were supposed to be Russian arms. Well guess what? A bunch were. The Yugoslavs didn't care and when they made it here a bunch came though as no agency has the manpower to go though them one by one. So some people got the Russian ones.



Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:So what you're really saying is the Venezuelans couldn't pay up. The top brass at Beretta decided "let's sell them to the Americans." Maybe a few autos will slip in like the Russian Makarovs :clap:


Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
Unfortunately, The Gun Control Act of 1968 bans the importation of any foreign made Class III items. The MX4 are made in Italy. (CX4 are the semi-auto and fully legal. But I believe they are subject to 922r restrictions.)

But even if Beretta moved this line to their American location they would still not legally be available to private citizens under current US law. The Firearm Owner's Protection Act of 1986 bans the sale, manufacture or transfer of any non-previously registered machine gun.

For an explanation of why an anti gun law would have a pro gun sounding name, look up the history of the legislation. In short, pro gun side gave up new machine guns for added protection against marginally legal ATF raids and lawsuits.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Wed May 25, 2016 9:57 pm

The Twizzler wrote:Fortunately, when an overly bureaucratic state combines a need for income production along with a work ethic that never shambles out of bed these things happen. I put the Makarov example in there on purpose. We imported a bunch from then Yugoslavia ( or Bulgaria I cant remember) but none of them were supposed to be Russian arms. Well guess what? A bunch were. The Yugoslavs didn't care and when they made it here a bunch came though as no agency has the manpower to go though them one by one. So some people got the Russian ones.



Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
The Twizzler wrote:So what you're really saying is the Venezuelans couldn't pay up. The top brass at Beretta decided "let's sell them to the Americans." Maybe a few autos will slip in like the Russian Makarovs :clap:


Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:India was the big contract, but Italy and Venezuela also use the MX4. The list of military and LE users of the CX4 is too extensive to type from memory.
Unfortunately, The Gun Control Act of 1968 bans the importation of any foreign made Class III items. The MX4 are made in Italy. (CX4 are the semi-auto and fully legal. But I believe they are subject to 922r restrictions.)

But even if Beretta moved this line to their American location they would still not legally be available to private citizens under current US law. The Firearm Owner's Protection Act of 1986 bans the sale, manufacture or transfer of any non-previously registered machine gun.

For an explanation of why an anti gun law would have a pro gun sounding name, look up the history of the legislation. In short, pro gun side gave up new machine guns for added protection against marginally legal ATF raids and lawsuits.
Ah, ok. I was wondering why you mentioned a Makarov which, as far as I know, was never available in full auto. Its a handgun, isn't it?

Apples and Oranges, my friend.

You speak of an example of Cold War trade embargo. The Makarov is perfectly legal except for its country of origin at that time.

I speak of a Class III weapon, if I accidentally got one I would think myself far from lucky. It would be like finding a bundle of $100 bills and not finding out they we're counterfeit until you tried to deposit them in your bank account.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by The Twizzler » Wed May 25, 2016 11:22 pm

Not really, same thing happened with imports of the SKS back before the Clinton ban. Sometimes if the stars aline just right you get something you are not supposed to whether it be food, cars, or ideas. Trying to stay away from politics, but I wouldn't consider it a bad thing at all.
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Thu May 26, 2016 9:56 am

The Twizzler wrote:Not really, same thing happened with imports of the SKS back before the Clinton ban. Sometimes if the stars aline just right you get something you are not supposed to whether it be food, cars, or ideas. Trying to stay away from politics, but I wouldn't consider it a bad thing at all.
I usually try to stay out of politics on these boards as well, but here we go....

I'm going out on a limb here and assume that most ZS fall relatively close to one another on the Nolan Chart.

But I still say I would not be lucky if I bought a CX4 that actually turned out to be an MX4.

With the multi levels of bureaucracy that plague our government, could a gun accidentally get into your hands,? Yes. And could you get away with it? Probably, if you were smart. But most people will tell a friend about their lucky find, and that friend will tell a friend, and so on until the ATF comes knocking. And while it is true that there is not a National registry of non restricted firearms maintained by the ATF, that doesn't mean sales are not tracked. FFL holders \ dealers are required to keep record of all their sales into perpetuity and the ATF has the right to review said records without a warrant.

So again, I say it would be like coming into possession of a large amount of counterfeit bills.

You would be faced with the choice of tell no one and don't use it, because if the ATF finds out you have it, you are looking at a mandatory 20 year Federal prison sentance.

Or tell the ATF of your luck (good or bad) and hope they go light on you and believe your story. Best case here is they seize your 'illegal' weapon and not charge you, but then you're out the cost of the gun. Worst case is the afore mentioned prison sentence.

So the best thing to do would be bury it in the back yard and pray for zombies. But then we can get into ammo scarcity in a PAW and how wasteful full auto weapons are......

I'll leave it there. :)
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Thu May 26, 2016 2:07 pm

Back to the original question.....

Does anyone know for a fact that Beretta is importing the civilian semi-auto to the US again?
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Re: Beretta CX4...... Is the wait finally over?

Post by springer » Sun May 29, 2016 7:44 pm

You'll be lucky if you don't find one. They have horrible triggers. Stock air guns from Walmart have better triggers. Expect to shell out $150 for the Sierra Papa trigger.

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