AK rail

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AK rail

Post by O.D. Green » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:31 pm

My wife purchased arsenal and was wanting to attach a real rail to mount an aimpoint pro, she likes the TWS dogleg rail cover, does anyone have any experience with these?
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Re: AK rail

Post by Jeriah » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:43 pm

I have heard that they are good to go. However, I believe that the Ultimak is a little more proven, and doesn't introduce a moving part under your optic. My recommendation would be to go with the Ultimak, but if she has some reason for wanting a TWS dogleg, I have heard nothing but good things about them. No personal experience, sorry.
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Re: AK rail

Post by JeeperCreeper » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:09 pm

I really wanted one for my '74 but couldn't find a good deal on one. I like the options of running rear peep sights.

I went with a Midwest Industries side rail mount. It was rock solid, so if she wants to run some magnification, the side mount might be a better hold for zero as opposed to a dust cover rail.

But if it's just a red dot or similar, I'd go with the dogleg as it provides many more options.
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Re: AK rail

Post by ineffableone » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:15 am

I use one of these with an Trijicon RMR Dual Illuminated.

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https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/in ... ory_ID=421

I love it as it doesn't interfere with the dust cover allows a nice cowitness, and doesn't add much weight. Plus the fiber optics and tritium mean I don't have any batteries to worry about.

They don't have these for the Aimpoint Pro but they do offer them for the Aimpoint T1, if that is any help.
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Re: AK rail

Post by Groucho » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:11 am

I have the TWS on a Lancaster wasr. Aimpoint ML-3. The TWS aperature sight didn't co-witness for me. TWS had a new sight built into the swivel arm of the dogleg that is supposed to co-witness. It looks like a factory AK sight without any type of adjustment. For cleaning it opens like an AR or FAL. Installation was a royal pain for me. I'm happy with my set up, but never tried a side mount.
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Re: AK rail

Post by crypto » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:52 am

Obligatory cut and paste:

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Re: AK rail

Post by O.D. Green » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:11 am

Jeriah wrote:I have heard that they are good to go. However, I believe that the Ultimak is a little more proven, and doesn't introduce a moving part under your optic. My recommendation would be to go with the Ultimak, but if she has some reason for wanting a TWS dogleg, I have heard nothing but good things about them. No personal experience, sorry.
The moving parts potential is a concern for us, since neither of us want things to come loses in the middle of zombies horde... having the optic on front is not a problem for me, but since she is petite makes front mount optic unbalance and arm fatigue with prolonged use, thanks for your help with this
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Re: AK rail

Post by O.D. Green » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:17 am

Groucho wrote:I have the TWS on a Lancaster wasr. Aimpoint ML-3. The TWS aperature sight didn't co-witness for me. TWS had a new sight built into the swivel arm of the dogleg that is supposed to co-witness. It looks like a factory AK sight without any type of adjustment. For cleaning it opens like an AR or FAL. Installation was a royal pain for me. I'm happy with my set up, but never tried a side mount.
The couple of TWS I have seen at the range appears to be well made, but my concern how do they hold up ? I know the TWS has to be adjusted to fit, I'm concerned of these adjustments might work lose at the worst time, thanks for your help with this
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Re: AK rail

Post by We'reWolf » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:04 pm

I have this TWS dust cover you speak of.

Its good I bought 2. I like rear mounted optics vs front on the gas port ( which moves as well when you disassemble to clean).
I have a bushnell trs-25 that co-witness the peep site.
I have the other sight option on my psl-54 and I chose that cause it was a cheaper option on something i know i am going to run scoped.

The downsides would the assembly which takes about 15 mins with the right tools.They give you instructions and theres youtube videos.

The midwest industries side mount is good quality i have one too. Between the two id go with the tws but its a good option.
I don't have any experience with the ultimak but i don't like the forward mounting stuff (just my preference).

By the way there is a All Purpose AK Thread, if you have other questions.
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Re: AK rail

Post by redbaron » Mon May 04, 2015 10:14 am

I had a TWS on my rifles for a while and ended up getting rid of it. I didn't have any problems with it, but I just never could bring myself to trust the durability of the thing completely. I just kept envisioning myself accidentally dropping the rifle while I was cleaning it (happened before) and bending that hinge or screwing something up.

I went with an RS Regulate side mount and have been extremely happy with it. Solid as a rock, lightweight, low profile and with the mount they made for the optic I use, it sits low enough that I can get a lower 1/3 co-witness. If your wife is concerned about weight and balance for the rifle I'd definitely recommend looking into one of these

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Re: AK rail

Post by crypto » Mon May 04, 2015 1:33 pm

One important thing to note about the Ultimak rail is that it gets hot AS FUCK, so be advised that you'll cook a cheap optic on it.
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Re: AK rail

Post by TheLastOne » Mon May 04, 2015 6:21 pm

crypto wrote:One important thing to note about the Ultimak rail is that it gets hot AS FUCK, so be advised that you'll cook a cheap optic on it.

Um... crap

Guess we'll see how that primary arms micro dot holds up here pretty soon :clownshoes:
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Re: AK rail

Post by Jeriah » Mon May 04, 2015 6:58 pm

Huh. At some point I'm going to put a T1 or H1 on my MAK-90...dogleg vs. Ultimak...hmm...
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Re: AK rail

Post by Dave_M » Tue May 05, 2015 1:51 am

I've never seen a proper repeatability test with a TWS. After all of these years, there's probably a reason. If you want something closer to the eye than the Ultimak can provide, I suggest an optic-specific RS Regulate mount (assuming you have a side rail that's installed properly).
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Re: AK rail

Post by RonnyRonin » Tue May 05, 2015 6:32 pm

Dave_M wrote:I've never seen a proper repeatability test with a TWS. After all of these years, there's probably a reason. If you want something closer to the eye than the Ultimak can provide, I suggest an optic-specific RS Regulate mount (assuming you have a side rail that's installed properly).
I have an RS Regulate mount and my dad has a Midwest side mount. Between the two I'd give the slight edge to RS but I'd take either over a TWS. I've never heard of any real issues with the TWS but it always kind of sat wrong with me.

I'm team ultimak in general, but in the OP's case I'd vote side rail.
TheLastOne wrote:
crypto wrote:One important thing to note about the Ultimak rail is that it gets hot AS FUCK, so be advised that you'll cook a cheap optic on it.

Um... crap

Guess we'll see how that primary arms micro dot holds up here pretty soon :clownshoes:
I had a PA on an ultimak for a few years with no problems, I think you'll find that is a fairly common set up, never heard of anyone cooking it, but I don't know if anyone went out of their way to try.
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Re: AK rail

Post by We'reWolf » Tue May 05, 2015 11:03 pm

Dave_M wrote:I've never seen a proper repeatability test with a TWS. After all of these years, there's probably a reason. If you want something closer to the eye than the Ultimak can provide, I suggest an optic-specific RS Regulate mount (assuming you have a side rail that's installed properly).
well i can tell you i have shot 300+ rounds and still hold a zero on a ak74
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Re: AK rail

Post by carrotstick » Fri May 08, 2015 6:45 pm

I haven't tried the side mount rigs or the dog legs, on account of the ultimak I have. A few have already said it and I will too. +1 for the ultimak. Rock solid and easy to install. It does get quite warm, so keep that in mind with whatever sight you put on it. I have a TRS25 on it and it's still going strong after a few hundred rounds.
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Re: AK rail

Post by Dave_M » Sat May 09, 2015 9:39 am

We'reWolf wrote:
Dave_M wrote:I've never seen a proper repeatability test with a TWS. After all of these years, there's probably a reason. If you want something closer to the eye than the Ultimak can provide, I suggest an optic-specific RS Regulate mount (assuming you have a side rail that's installed properly).
well i can tell you i have shot 300+ rounds and still hold a zero on a ak74
What I'm talking about is a zero tracking test. What was originally done with LaRue mounts was:
Zero rifle
At 100m, take a single shot
Remove optic
Stand up
Sit back down
Attach optic
Take a single shot
Track deviation
Repeat cycle [a lot]
Calculate zero shift both overall and average shot-to-shot

With an AK, it's a tad harder, as it's not going to be done on a subMOA rifle with subMOA ammo. Probably be best to do the same with 5 or 10 shot groups at a closer range and track group centers instead of individual shots (and of course, flip the cover open and closed instead of optic removal between cycles).
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Re: AK rail

Post by Orpheus » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:34 pm

https://youtu.be/aYdsL3zTFoQ

These guys abuse AKs and accessories to higher level than most for purposes of testing. According to them it is not battle ready. There are other options they list which pass their tests FWIW.

I prefer the good old side rail with BN-02 side mount. They arent "sexy" or whatever but its an affordable, proven solid system that is inherently quick removable.

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Re: AK rail

Post by ironhead7544 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:02 am

Side mount and a peep replacement for the stock AK rear sight.

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Re: AK rail

Post by Unorthodox » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:29 am

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Re: AK rail

Post by RevolverOcelot » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:26 am

The AK Operator's Union did a test on the TWS Dogleg. They say the don't recommend it. Sorry the pictures don't enlarge, you can view them larger on the website.

http://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.co ... s-dog-leg/

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Catastrophic Failure video
https://youtu.be/aYdsL3zTFoQ
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Re: AK rail

Post by KGBrick » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:47 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like they noticed a weak point and then deliberately stressed said weak point to failure. I think testing in which they dropped the rifle, fully assembled, onto the optic (maybe at a 45 degree angle or so) would have been much more informative. Lots of equipment is vulnerable to failure when it is half disassembled.

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Re: AK rail

Post by bkz81 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:18 am


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