Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by procyon » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:42 pm

Ok, to address the original post - no, you probably don't NEED one.

But as a side note to the other side of the argument...
With the prices of rifles at the moment - if you decide that you don't want to keep it after you buy one, you can probably resell it very quickly and not be out any money.
You might actually come out ahead depending on how the market goes.

So this could be a good time to find out if a rifle is something you want to add to your collection.
And it is hard to go wrong with .308. It will cover everything you may hunt in MO, and the lower 48.

But as someone who occasionally skips down from IA to MO to hunt deer - you can't have a mag that holds over 10 rounds in a self loading firearm when you hunt deer in MO.
You could have a belt fed gun in bolt action (which I would like to see just for giggles...), but autoloaders can't hold over 11 rounds total.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by hondo » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:45 pm

Maeklos wrote:
00dlez wrote: As someone who bought a 15-22 for that exact purpose about 8 months ago, and used it quite successfully at an Appleseed, the price/availability of .22 (at least in my AO through my sources) makes it not super great. I'm nervous to shoot through the .22 I have because I'm not sure when I can find more below the .10-.12 cent/round mark. For an extra $200 for the gun and an extra .10 cents/round, why not just go full AR and train "for real".

YMMV, but for my budget and preferences, that's my 2 cents.
Wow, what's the cost of .22 ammunition running you, mate? I'm paying $23.97 per 550-count on the big boxes of Federal at Wal-Mart. That's under 5 cents per round. Heck, if .22 ammunition is a problem, I might be able to pick some up at my local Wal-Mart and send it to you.
Was there two, three nights ago grabbed few 120 round boxes of American Eagle 223, they are out of 7,62 X 39 but ammo truck comes on Friday night between 2200 and 2400, there was plenty of 45,9, 380 ACP, now I wasn't looking for 22 lr, to be completely honest I was there to grab something else and as usual grabbed some ammo.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by hondo » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:48 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
hondo wrote:

As far as HD you are good to go, rule of thumb should be don't own more guns than shooters in the house, now most of people does not follow that rule.
Lies, all lies!!!! Next you're gonna tell me that I need to stock up on water instead of ammo and that The Terminator was a fictional work...
I wrote should be, but most of us do not follow such rules, as far water it goes bad after sometime so stocking up to much is pointless, as far cyborgs they are among us but govt. denies having any knowledge about it. So do not forget ever :There's no fate but what we make for ourselves

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:37 pm

procyon wrote: ...as someone who occasionally skips down from IA to MO to hunt deer - you can't have a mag that holds over 10 rounds in a self loading firearm when you hunt deer in MO.
You could have a belt fed gun in bolt action (which I would like to see just for giggles...), but autoloaders can't hold over 11 rounds total.
I can purchase and have available a lower capacity magazine for hunting, though, with the S&W M&P 10, right?

Thanks!
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:56 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
procyon wrote: ...as someone who occasionally skips down from IA to MO to hunt deer - you can't have a mag that holds over 10 rounds in a self loading firearm when you hunt deer in MO.
You could have a belt fed gun in bolt action (which I would like to see just for giggles...), but autoloaders can't hold over 11 rounds total.
I can purchase and have available a lower capacity magazine for hunting, though, with the S&W M&P 10, right?

Thanks!
-Neptune
Yes, or put a capacity limiter inside a standard mag.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by RickOShea » Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:21 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
I can purchase and have available a lower capacity magazine for hunting, though, with the S&W M&P 10, right?

Thanks!
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by procyon » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:49 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Yes, or put a capacity limiter inside a standard mag.
Doc is right.
And I have done just such a thing. I have a 20rd mag pinned to only hold 10 rds so that I could hunt with my AR in MO - as IA has a minimum of .24 cal for hunting (so my .38 Spl LA Marlin is ok, but not the AR...oh well). MO just requires a centerfire round so I coughed up the $ for an out of state hunter so I could use the AR one year.

Just don't have any higher cap mags on you. Or in your vehicle - because they will be with the rifle while you are transporting the deer, and not everyone is going to believe you left them behind when you were hunting.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by AS556 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:05 pm

I agree with rockfish and Black Sheep. Good posts.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by 0122358 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:59 pm

I keep my snubby by my bed, my glock 19 by my EDC gear when I don't have pants on, A shotgun behind the closet door and my AR ready to go in the safe and first out.

In a home defense situation, yeah Ive got my 9mm on me, but I'm grabbing my AR and using that. Weapon light, red dot for faster acquisition, higher capacity, easier threat removal through superior ballistics and faster follow up shots/less recoil mean I'll be more effective in defending my home. My mom can use it to decent use, my girlfriend can shoot it without problem. My shotgun not so much if at all.

The only reason I carry a handgun for EDC is because I cant carry my truck gun (an SKS para) with me.

Rifle first, rifle always.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Stercutus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:03 am

Most of the high points have been hit. There are a few other reasons:

- The right to arms has historically been enshrined in the constitution of a number of countries. This right tends to represent an overall "more free" state. Countries without that right tend to be less free on the whole and more dictatorial generally with there being a number of exceptions. A rifle is currently the best arm that most of us can practically own. By owning a rifle it is a symbol of your freedom, even if you can't afford to shoot it.

- You say you don't hunt. What you mean is that you don't hunt now. If you had to you would probably hunt, or be hungrier.

- Zombies was already mentioned so I will go with Amazon aerial delivery drones hacked into a berserk state similar to Hitchcocks The Birds. Because the truth is we don't know what the future holds so preparing for an uncertain future is the idea here. Waiting till "after" to prepare seldom works out.

- In the countryside most of the criminals who own guns own long guns. This is especially true in Alabama where long guns are generally allowed to non-violent felons (under state law). The whole pistol vs long gun vs shotgun argument played out again, above for your benefit is solid. I don't know of anyone, ever, who being in a gun fight suddenly wished they had a pistol instead of a rifle with the reverse being true given enough time.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by JeeperCreeper » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 am

Stercutus wrote:
- The right to arms has historically been enshrined in the constitution of a number of countries. This right tends to represent an overall "more free" state. Countries without that right tend to be less free on the whole and more dictatorial generally with there being a number of exceptions. A rifle is currently the best arm that most of us can practically own. By owning a rifle it is a symbol of your freedom, even if you can't afford to shoot it.
If that's the case, then my symbols of freedom are primarily Russian... What's that say about me, comrade??? :awesome:
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Maeklos » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:31 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote: If that's the case, then my symbols of freedom are primarily Russian... What's that say about me, comrade??? :awesome:
It says we ignorant peasants must stick together in the face of capitalist oppression. :lol:

It's nice to see spirited debates back and forth by folks who believe different things. It always brings out tons of points that may not have been noticed or considered otherwise.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Stercutus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:57 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
- The right to arms has historically been enshrined in the constitution of a number of countries. This right tends to represent an overall "more free" state. Countries without that right tend to be less free on the whole and more dictatorial generally with there being a number of exceptions. A rifle is currently the best arm that most of us can practically own. By owning a rifle it is a symbol of your freedom, even if you can't afford to shoot it.
If that's the case, then my symbols of freedom are primarily Russian... What's that say about me, comrade??? :awesome:
It says you are really, really, really free. So free you can buy weapons surplus from countries whose governments are mostly too terrified to allow their own citizens to buy them. That is like apex level freedom.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by zero11010 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:09 pm

I like that it's a choice I get to make myself. I'm free to not own a gun if I choose not to, and I wouldn't be wrong for deciding to not buy one or more guns.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by LJ126 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:31 am

Stercutus wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
- The right to arms has historically been enshrined in the constitution of a number of countries. This right tends to represent an overall "more free" state. Countries without that right tend to be less free on the whole and more dictatorial generally with there being a number of exceptions. A rifle is currently the best arm that most of us can practically own. By owning a rifle it is a symbol of your freedom, even if you can't afford to shoot it.
If that's the case, then my symbols of freedom are primarily Russian... What's that say about me, comrade??? :awesome:
It says you are really, really, really free. So free you can buy weapons surplus from countries whose governments are mostly too terrified to allow their own citizens to buy them. That is like apex level freedom.
I did a mental "Hell Yeah!" when I read this.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by 0122358 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:33 am

LJ126 wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
- The right to arms has historically been enshrined in the constitution of a number of countries. This right tends to represent an overall "more free" state. Countries without that right tend to be less free on the whole and more dictatorial generally with there being a number of exceptions. A rifle is currently the best arm that most of us can practically own. By owning a rifle it is a symbol of your freedom, even if you can't afford to shoot it.
If that's the case, then my symbols of freedom are primarily Russian... What's that say about me, comrade??? :awesome:
It says you are really, really, really free. So free you can buy weapons surplus from countries whose governments are mostly too terrified to allow their own citizens to buy them. That is like apex level freedom.
I did a mental "Hell Yeah!" when I read this.
Same
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Black Sheep » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:05 pm

George Orwell said this, writing about the UK Home Guard:

"The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER'S COTTAGE, IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE THAT IT STAYS THERE".

Orwell died in 1950 aged 47, which I think explains a lot about the state of the world.

However guys, how many nations really have a RIGHT to bear arms? I know the U.S. does, where I live some have the privilege. We need a licence issued by the state, only available if two people will vouch for you and you can convince a cop you have a reason to own a rifle and no crime, drug or mental health issues.

I've always thought the U.S. was more or less alone in it's approach, now I'm curious. Can ZS tell me where else has an actual right to firearm ownership?

Hopefully not a derail.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by woodsghost » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:47 pm

I"d be willing to bed Switzerland and Israel have rights to own rifles, barring criminal history. I"d argue that in the land of Somalia you have a "right" to whatever you can afford.

The Czech Republic might have some rights. I don't know, but the bits I have heard make me wonder.

Norway and Sweden might have rights, but then they might just have laws which allow it.

I guess separating "it is legal" from "it is a right" is important to such a question.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Snyper708 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:52 pm

Maeklos wrote:
LJ126 wrote: Also, an appropriately configured pump shotgun is as good a home defense weapon as a carbine,
The best quote I've seen regarding a shotgun as a home defense weapon is this: "I don't have to be an expert marksman to hit my target with a shotgun."
By that same token, it's not a good choice if you're needing to shoot someone beating on your loved one, or a predator attacking your animals

A shotgun is like a bush hog, whereas a rifle is like a scalpel

"Home defense" isn't always inside the home, with a well defined and isolated target

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Mountainsquid » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:51 am

jor-el wrote:
zero11010 wrote:I think this is getting off topic, and I imagine it's starting to tread on ground that has been covered in great detail in the past.

If Masaad Ayoob says the one weapon to have for home defense is a pistol, I'm going to go ahead and listen.
He doesn't come to NYC much, and for good reason.

People who live in the major population canters like NYC, Chicago, SF, LA a pistol is a very difficult to obtain. Before I became a cop, I had to jump through multiple hoops to get my Target Permit, and its obviously not a carry permit. Right on that permit I had to pre-arrange a schedule of when I could go to the range. Current permits require naming the particular range, and current interpretation forbids picking a range outside city limits. There's only maybe four public ranges for the entire city, so you can imagine the logistics problem there.
NYC is the most bizarre of the places you listed, not too sure about Cook County. You can get a handgun in SF and LA without any special hoops, although obviously for both it's going to be extremely difficult to get a CHP without knowing someone. I like the idea of having a handgun to hold back if you're answering a knocking at the door late at night, rather than a shotgun or a semiautomatic rifle.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by Mountainsquid » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:54 am

Stercutus wrote:Most of the high points have been hit. There are a few other reasons:

- The right to arms has historically been enshrined in the constitution of a number of countries. This right tends to represent an overall "more free" state. Countries without that right tend to be less free on the whole and more dictatorial generally with there being a number of exceptions. A rifle is currently the best arm that most of us can practically own. By owning a rifle it is a symbol of your freedom, even if you can't afford to shoot it.
Name five.

I wouldn't call either Mexico or Pakistan(both of which explicitly guarentee the right to arms) particularly more "free" than, say, Sweden.

I happen to think that the right to self-defense is important, and the RKBA is the logical extension of that, but this is just bad information you're passing on.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by hondo » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:41 am

woodsghost wrote:I"d be willing to bed Switzerland and Israel have rights to own rifles, barring criminal history. I"d argue that in the land of Somalia you have a "right" to whatever you can afford.

The Czech Republic might have some rights. I don't know, but the bits I have heard make me wonder.

Norway and Sweden might have rights, but then they might just have laws which allow it.

I guess separating "it is legal" from "it is a right" is important to such a question.
In the USA it is Constitutional Right in the rest of the world it is a privilege, govt. lets you own a gun or few but also it can be taken away from you without due process or simply by changing the gun laws.

For example you can obtain permit to purchase and carry multiple guns but all it takes for you to have guns sized by police and your gun permit revoked or temporary suspended is bs complaint from your neighbor or coworker and your guns are taken for "safekeeping " by the police until that is cleared.

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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by ineffableone » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:28 am

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ravel.html
Do any foreign states guarantee the right to keep and bear arms like we do in the United States?

Yes. Mexico, Haiti, and Guatemala all enshrine the right to pack heat in their constitutions. Guatemala's Article 38 is the only one that's as broad as our Second Amendment (it guarantees "the right of possession of arms for personal use"). Article 10 of the Mexican constitution and Article 268-1 of Haiti's constitution limit the right to the confines of the home and allow the government to pass laws significantly restricting ownership. Mexicans, for example, are supposed to get a permit, renewable every year, from the military, and all firearms must be registered. (The law is widely ignored. Only 4,300 licenses have been issued for Mexico's 105 million people.) Handguns must be .380 caliber or less, shotguns can't be greater than 12 gauge, and rifles must be .30 caliber or smaller.
The article goes on to point out that
The Swiss national legislature could, theoretically, ban gun ownership tomorrow since there's no constitutional guarantee.
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Re: Purpose of a Rifle in Suburbia

Post by crypto » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:32 am

Just posting in here to say that my HD weapon is a suppressed 5.56 with a light on it.

I like the power of a rifle for its terminal effects vs a pistol, I like having a sling on it in case I get in a shoving match, and I like the fact that 5.56 over-penetrates less than most pistols.
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