Scout Rifle, or...

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by nolongpork » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:41 pm

44 lever is a grand solution to the problem, I have basically the same combo but in .357

you might like these as well

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-225 ... evolution/

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by KentuckyRifleman » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:48 pm

I just purchased a Ruger GSR and I am picking it up on Wednesday. I am planning on using the Burris Scout Riflescope 2-7x32mm http://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/scou ... e-2-7x32mm.

I'll try to give a report once that is up and running.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by minengr » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:25 am

As stated previously, it's all about application and definition. If you're talking about Cooper's "light weight" bolt gun with a forward mounted optic, BUIS, and ability to feed with stripper clips I think the concept is over rated and dated. IMO, it does a few things ok, and sucks at others. Personally, I'm not a fan of BUIS on a bolt gun nor do I care for a low power LER scope mounted in front of the bolt. For me a 2x scope on a 308 is a waste. It might be better taking that occasional "snap shot", but that's not an important factor for me (with a bolt action).

I think Cooper's heart was in the right place, but he "rediscovered" the term in '68 and started really pushing it in the 80's. There have been a few improvement in available factory and aftermarket goodies since then.

If you're looking for light weight, power, and range it's hard to beat a Kimber Montana. Top it with a fixed 6x and it's a nice package. A cheaper route is a SS Rem 700 ADL in a TI take-off stock. I have one in 7-08. It balances near perfect and I'd take it over any "scout".

If you're looking for a bolt-gun with a quick reload go DBM with normal scope location. However, if you're anticipating a quick reload a bolt gun may not be the best choice.

I love lever-actions and I have a few with the XS mount. In certain applications it isn't bad, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's better. Does it make a 100 year old design better? IMO, yes. Will it work just fine hunting out of a stand in heavy timber? Yes, but so will several other things. If 10 rounds and <200 yard range are ok it will get the job done, but I'd take an AR & Aimpoint first. There is a certain fun factor and nostalgia with lever-actions. Same could be said for the M14, but fun+nostalgia doesn't = better.

IMO, there is no "one gun to rule them all". You have to determine what application matters most and base a decision on facts not nostalgia or fun. I've done that. Or you can disregard the suggestion, buy what you think is best, and find out later you were wrong and should have listened. I've done that too. Or just buy something to have fun with. Have that t-shirt as well.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Neptune Glory » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:55 am

minengr wrote:As stated previously, it's all about application and definition. If you're talking about Cooper's "light weight" bolt gun with a forward mounted optic, BUIS, and ability to feed with stripper clips I think the concept is over rated and dated. IMO, it does a few things ok, and sucks at others. Personally, I'm not a fan of BUIS on a bolt gun nor do I care for a low power LER scope mounted in front of the bolt. For me a 2x scope on a 308 is a waste. It might be better taking that occasional "snap shot", but that's not an important factor for me (with a bolt action).

I think Cooper's heart was in the right place, but he "rediscovered" the term in '68 and started really pushing it in the 80's. There have been a few improvement in available factory and aftermarket goodies since then.

If you're looking for light weight, power, and range it's hard to beat a Kimber Montana. Top it with a fixed 6x and it's a nice package. A cheaper route is a SS Rem 700 ADL in a TI take-off stock. I have one in 7-08. It balances near perfect and I'd take it over any "scout".

If you're looking for a bolt-gun with a quick reload go DBM with normal scope location. However, if you're anticipating a quick reload a bolt gun may not be the best choice.

I love lever-actions and I have a few with the XS mount. In certain applications it isn't bad, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's better. Does it make a 100 year old design better? IMO, yes. Will it work just fine hunting out of a stand in heavy timber? Yes, but so will several other things. If 10 rounds and <200 yard range are ok it will get the job done, but I'd take an AR & Aimpoint first. There is a certain fun factor and nostalgia with lever-actions. Same could be said for the M14, but fun+nostalgia doesn't = better.

IMO, there is no "one gun to rule them all". You have to determine what application matters most and base a decision on facts not nostalgia or fun. I've done that. Or you can disregard the suggestion, buy what you think is best, and find out later you were wrong and should have listened. I've done that too. Or just buy something to have fun with. Have that t-shirt as well.
Thanks, minengr. I appreciate your experience and insight.

Plenty of time to think this over before making a purchase, so will consider the options carefully.

Sincerely,
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:13 pm

praharin wrote:
They make a great close to intermediate range hunting rifle, at a time when variable power scopes were not where they are today. They still do very well in that area, in my experience. The last deer I took with a rifle (probably ever, as I gave it up in favor of a stickbow) was taken with a Ruger Frontier 308 at about 15 feet somewhere between when we spotted each other and him at full sprint. The rifle was also capable easily in excess of 300 yards.
I remember that gun. I'm the guy who traded you for it. It was a joy to carry being super lite. I've since turned it into an ultralite AR15, if I remember correctly. I don't know, but its been turned into something else.

The deciding factor...
I was hunting with it that year and couldn't ID a buck yet alone count points. This was because the sun was glaring off the ocular lense. A scope mounted over the receiver doesn't afford as huge of an angle for light to seep in, blocked by the shooter's head and in my case usually a hat. Tried the scout rifle thing and didn't like it in practice.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by arentol » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:43 pm

I am far from an expert on this subject, but it seems to me that the "upside" of a Scout Rifle, as promoted in the 1980's was:

Lower weight and shorter than similar caliber bolt-action or semi-auto rifles.
More accurate than a semi-auto.
Faster to load than a standard bolt-action.
Improved situation awareness over a rifle with a "normal scope".
Improved target acquisition speed over a rifle with a "normal scope".
Backup sights in case you have issues with your primary optics.

All these things averaged out to a Scout Rifle being a reasonably capable gun for both hunting and medium to long range combat.

But that was the 80's. The problem today is the modern semi-auto have pretty much wiped out the first three advantages, and makes achieving the last three trivial if you so desire.

You can get an AR-10 Clone that weighs 7.75 lbs and shoots sub-MOA. Start with that, throw on some BUIS, a 2x or 3x scope, a sling, and a magazine, and other than weighing about a pound more it can do everything a Scout Rifle can do, and a lot of things it can't.

So to me Scout Rifles, while certainly capable at a lot of things and can be used for very serious business, are still primarily in the realm of "Fun Gun" at this time.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by praharin » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:19 am

arentol wrote:I am far from an expert on this subject, but it seems to me that the "upside" of a Scout Rifle, as promoted in the 1980's was:

Lower weight and shorter than similar caliber bolt-action or semi-auto rifles.
More accurate than a semi-auto.
Faster to load than a standard bolt-action.
Improved situation awareness over a rifle with a "normal scope".
Improved target acquisition speed over a rifle with a "normal scope".
Backup sights in case you have issues with your primary optics.

All these things averaged out to a Scout Rifle being a reasonably capable gun for both hunting and medium to long range combat.

But that was the 80's. The problem today is the modern semi-auto have pretty much wiped out the first three advantages, and makes achieving the last three trivial if you so desire.

You can get an AR-10 Clone that weighs 7.75 lbs and shoots sub-MOA. Start with that, throw on some BUIS, a 2x or 3x scope, a sling, and a magazine, and other than weighing about a pound more it can do everything a Scout Rifle can do, and a lot of things it can't.

So to me Scout Rifles, while certainly capable at a lot of things and can be used for very serious business, are still primarily in the realm of "Fun Gun" at this time.
I agree with the sentiment, but there is still one thing an AR-308 will never allow me to do (for now at least) and that is hunt in Pennsylvania. No auto loading rifles allowed. Or handguns, actually. Shotguns are ok, though. Makes sense, right?

I don't hunt with a rifle so it's moot to me, but PA has a lot of archaic hunting laws that don't exist in most other states.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Mikeyboy » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:19 am

Also for the record, if you are not totally in love with the forward mounting of a scout scope, you can get a Mossberg MVP.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/ruger ... vp-patrol/

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Neptune Glory » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:54 pm

arentol wrote:I am far from an expert on this subject, but it seems to me that the "upside" of a Scout Rifle, as promoted in the 1980's was:

Lower weight and shorter than similar caliber bolt-action or semi-auto rifles.
More accurate than a semi-auto.
Faster to load than a standard bolt-action.
Improved situation awareness over a rifle with a "normal scope".
Improved target acquisition speed over a rifle with a "normal scope".
Backup sights in case you have issues with your primary optics.

All these things averaged out to a Scout Rifle being a reasonably capable gun for both hunting and medium to long range combat.

But that was the 80's. The problem today is the modern semi-auto have pretty much wiped out the first three advantages, and makes achieving the last three trivial if you so desire.

You can get an AR-10 Clone that weighs 7.75 lbs and shoots sub-MOA. Start with that, throw on some BUIS, a 2x or 3x scope, a sling, and a magazine, and other than weighing about a pound more it can do everything a Scout Rifle can do, and a lot of things it can't.

So to me Scout Rifles, while certainly capable at a lot of things and can be used for very serious business, are still primarily in the realm of "Fun Gun" at this time.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks arentol!
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by 400 Grains » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:34 am

I had my first of several Scouts built over 30 years ago after talking with the Colonel personally about it. I loved them and shot and hunted with them, here and overseas. I still have a couple, but today's true 1X to 4X and up variable scopes make the concept obsolete in my opinion, and I even think Cooper might agree today. On 1X I can snap shoot just as well or better on close range/moving targets, and a quick flip gives me 4X or 6X to make long shots easier than with the 2 3/4X Scout scope. No optic out front to catch and bump things, along with wrecking the balance of the rifle.

A short barrel, light, bolt action .308, is still a very useful gun to own though. But the Scout optic mounting has been eclipsed imho.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by 400 Grains » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:44 am

Mikeyboy wrote:Also for the record, if you are not totally in love with the forward mounting of a scout scope, you can get a Mossberg MVP.

http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/ruger ... vp-patrol/
Mossberg just introduced a true Scout version now.

Image

http://www.mossberg.com/product/rifles- ... cout/27779

Looks like they use an XS rail, or copied it. You can forward mount or traditional mount the optic, and still have a rear sight. Takes M1A or SR25 pattern magazines, and it makes weight as per original Scout specs.

Interesting concept, though I've heard some negatives about the MVP platform.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Hollis » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:29 pm

Marlin does make other caliber for their lever actions. Take a look at the .444 Marlin. Commercial loads are pretty powerful.

There are just a lot of great choices.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Paladin1 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:48 pm

FWIW I don't think the Scout Rifle concept has anything going for it except a famous dead dude.

The evolution of firearms/ammunition has made it obsolete.

I would never go into a potentially dangerous situation with one.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by brothaman » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:23 am

If you have a rifle that take stripper clips its a nice option. Personally,.. I think a peep sight and a forward red dot make a better combo than a fwd mounted magnified optic' If you have rifle with a DBM then any other the the standard setup is just limiting yourself.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by LJ126 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:16 pm

I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of the Cooperian Scout rifle, depending on the intention of the owner for said rifle. I believe it is a better choice as a general purpose rifle than some here are giving credit, even when used in a fight. No, it's probably not the best CQB choice, so if that's something you can see yourself frequently being concerned about, then maybe something else would be a better choice. However, it's light, powerful, and in the right terrain and setting would be a decent tool for a person's arsenal.

I think that for a general purpose rifle, it is (generally) better than most bolt action hunting rifles, which are long, heavy, slow to recharge, and not built for hard use. For example, my deer rifle, a Zastava LK M70 in .30-06 is 9 pounds, 10 ounces unloaded. Call it ten pounds, roughly. A comparably-equipped Savage 10FCM Scout with a Burris scout scope would weigh about 2 1/2 pounds less (25% lighter), have BUIS (maybe not necessary but freebie), be more portable and convenient for use in and out of vehicles, probably more accurate, faster to recharge (just change the magazine!), more tolerant of poor weather, and equally capable in most situations. My deer rifle is a little more powerful and has a larger range of magnification, but in basically any other way measurable is an inferior weapon.

Where I would disagree with Cooper is in the necessity for an intermediate to long eye relief scope, because a more traditionally mounted optic is (IMO) more advantageous for field of view and balance. However, for the rifles with fixed magazines, the ability to use stripper clips for recharging the weapon is a nice trade. Well, and not having to worry about the clearance between a scope and the bolt handle is a nice thing, too.

So if CQB is a serious, legitimate, likely concern, invest a separate weapon for that job. If you live in Rural Southern Texas, which is like a flat version of the Australian Bush, it might not be a bad choice.
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Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Aeromedic » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:33 pm

I wanted something like a scout rifle. I ended up with a savage hoghunter (in .308). It does not have dbm but it does have iron sights a 20" barrel and is relatively light. It also has a threaded barrel but I really just wanted it for the iron sights. Iron sights are so usefull, I wish more rifles came with them. This rifle is going to be a hunting gun, but there is no reason it can't reach out to 1000 yards to put holes in paper.

Edit. I apologize, I just realized that I replied to this thread thinking it was a different thread. But for a pseudo scout rifle look into the savage hog hunter.


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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Herkemer » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:04 pm

A thousand years ago when I was a kid I read about it in Guns and Ammo. When Steyr came out with it, holy....it was the sh*t and I couldn't wait to be 18 to buy one!

The thousand years have passed, and I have done all kinds of low speed stuff in my life and have come to the conclusion....

1. If you want a deer rifle, get a deer rifle.
2. If you want to fight, get a rifle you can fight with.

Sorry to say it, but, the scout rifle is the exact best of absolutely nothing. It's not even the half ass of nothing.

Man I wish I was 14 again. Scout rifles are super cool.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Black Beard » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:40 pm

It is a bit academic but the scout rifle concept looks a lot like a late 19th century cavalry carbine with updated sights. For example a 1893 Swiss Manlichter carbine weighed a bit over 6lb, had a straight pull action, used chargers (like stripper clips) and shot a round equivalent to 30-30 (about as good as they got at the time). This was replaced by a series of rifles that ended with the K31, the same as used by the infantry. The K31 is heavier and longer but does everything better.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:54 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:I've been looking into getting a Scout Rifle for a while, specifically a Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308 Winchester. I've become a little discouraged at the lack of optics designed for long eye relief shooting, so I'm rethinking this idea a bit.
I'm late to this thread, but I've had a Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308 for about 3 or 4 years now - a left handed one - and I found a pretty decent scout scope from SWFA: http://swfa.com/Leupold-15-5x33-VX-R-30 ... 69513.aspx.

It's a 1.5-5x33mm VX-R Scout from Leupold. It's part of their Firedot series....just a simple duplex reticle with a red dot in the center. But the glass is pretty clear. It doesn't have the long eye-relief of a fixed-power scout scope, but it still has 8"-6.75" of eye-relief. You just have to mount it a little further back on the rail.

Image

So you can see that the scope is a little more rear mounted than usual, but still forward of where a traditional scope would go.

That said, this arrangement no longer works for my Mark 63 eyeballs. I am about to swap out the original equipment rail for a XS Sight Systems Gunsite Scout Rail with Aperture, and mount a traditional scope in a rear mounted position. My scope of choice for this rifle is a Vortex 2.5-10x32mm Viper PST.

I have not yet hunted with this rifle, but I have shot it a number of times. I think a 2.5-10X scope is more than enough optic for its effective range. A carbine-length bolt gun is not going to have the effective reach of a 24" barreled .308 precision rifle, so heavily magnified optics are not necessary; and the 2.5-10x weighs a bit less and is smaller and handier than the 4-16x, which is the next size up in the PST lineup. And "handiness" is one of the RGS rifle's strengths.

As far as accuracy goes, the RGS is as accurate as it needs to be. With handholds, I've gotten as low as .5" groups out of it, but not consistently. It gets about 1 to 1.5 MOA with match ammo, and I get about 1.5 MOA with Federal 165 grain Fusion, which is plenty good enough for hunting at the ranges it is capable of. It's compact size and quick handling makes it an ideal "truck gun", in kind of the same way as a good .30-30 lever action is a good truck gun. If you decide to get one, buy the aftermarket polymer magazines that Ruger sells for it. They are better made and easier to load than the AI mag that comes with the rifle.

As others have pointed out, it might not be the ideal general purpose rifle, but it is a good rifle, and it is fine for almost any use out to about 300 yards in which a bolt gun fits the bill. For me, it serves as a backup to my 26" heavy barreled Remington 700 based precision rifle; and I'm happy to take it anywhere where I might want a bolt gun but the Remington is too long and heavy.

Hope this helps, if you haven't bought your rifle yet.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Paladin1 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:59 pm

OK, a few issues:

-You're about a year late to the thread!
-You have a very nice rifle, looks good!
-Scout rifles suck at everything but being a scout rifle.

Hopefully NP got himself a lightweight fighting rifle that he can also hunt with.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:09 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:I've been looking into getting a Scout Rifle for a while, specifically a Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308 Winchester. I've become a little discouraged at the lack of optics designed for long eye relief shooting, so I'm rethinking this idea a bit.
I'm late to this thread, but I've had a Ruger Gunsite Scout in .308 for about 3 or 4 years now - a left handed one - and I found a pretty decent scout scope from SWFA: http://swfa.com/Leupold-15-5x33-VX-R-30 ... 69513.aspx.

It's a 1.5-5x33mm VX-R Scout from Leupold. It's part of their Firedot series....just a simple duplex reticle with a red dot in the center. But the glass is pretty clear. It doesn't have the long eye-relief of a fixed-power scout scope, but it still has 8"-6.75" of eye-relief. You just have to mount it a little further back on the rail.

Image

So you can see that the scope is a little more rear mounted than usual, but still forward of where a traditional scope would go.

That said, this arrangement no longer works for my Mark 63 eyeballs. I am about to swap out the original equipment rail for a XS Sight Systems Gunsite Scout Rail with Aperture, and mount a traditional scope in a rear mounted position. My scope of choice for this rifle is a Vortex 2.5-10x32mm Viper PST.

I have not yet hunted with this rifle, but I have shot it a number of times. I think a 2.5-10X scope is more than enough optic for its effective range. A carbine-length bolt gun is not going to have the effective reach of a 24" barreled .308 precision rifle, so heavily magnified optics are not necessary; and the 2.5-10x weighs a bit less and is smaller and handier than the 4-16x, which is the next size up in the PST lineup. And "handiness" is one of the RGS rifle's strengths.

As far as accuracy goes, the RGS is as accurate as it needs to be. With handholds, I've gotten as low as .5" groups out of it, but not consistently. It gets about 1 to 1.5 MOA with match ammo, and I get about 1.5 MOA with Federal 165 grain Fusion, which is plenty good enough for hunting at the ranges it is capable of. It's compact size and quick handling makes it an ideal "truck gun", in kind of the same way as a good .30-30 lever action is a good truck gun. If you decide to get one, buy the aftermarket polymer magazines that Ruger sells for it. They are better made and easier to load than the AI mag that comes with the rifle.

As others have pointed out, it might not be the ideal general purpose rifle, but it is a good rifle, and it is fine for almost any use out to about 300 yards in which a bolt gun fits the bill. For me, it serves as a backup to my 26" heavy barreled Remington 700 based precision rifle; and I'm happy to take it anywhere where I might want a bolt gun but the Remington is too long and heavy.

Hope this helps, if you haven't bought your rifle yet.
Thanks! I did wind up purchasing a rifle, but not a bolt action... went with an AR-10 platform that can handle full powered .308 Winchester.
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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by FreeThought » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:21 am

Neptune Glory wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:Other than the Cooper-ism of it all, is there any particular reason why you are enamored with the scout rifle concept? As noted before, they really don't settle into any particular role very well.

And you really should tell us the specifics you are looking this rifle to do. Just saying it is an exercise in SHTF rifle, that is only going to be used for target shooting is pretty vague. A SHTF rifle can be anything from a single shot .22lr, to a full battle rattle AR/AK. We've already discussed in an older thread the drawbacks on relying on a manually operated rifle for a defensive weapon, so I wont bother dredging that up again. And as far as hunting during the SHTF, hunting for what? Small game? Big game? Birds on the wing?

Advancements in tech have really bridged whatever gap he was trying to fill. It seems the role Cooper was trying to fill, was that of an ultralight rifle with fast target acquisition. Advances in tech has given us better optic options, and reduced weight materials.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, is don't let an early 80's design concept dictate what you think you need in a rifle. Figure out what you do need in the gun, and make it that.
The idea I have is to be able to cover any reasonable range with a hard hitting bullet.

I already have a .22 rifle for small critters.

I like the scout rifle concept for the reasons you described above... but after thinking about it for a while, if a .44 magnum round will handle things up close and personal (including larger critters), to about 100 yards, then the point of having a scout rifle is kind of... lost on me.

With that in mind, I'm starting to look for a .44 magnum lever gun (it can share ammo with a .44 magnum revolver, which is going to be what I carry while hiking).

I'm also looking for something that can reach out a bit further... and if the .44 magnum lever gun is for less than 100 yards, then a .308 with a longer-range-than-Cooper-recommended optic scope is certainly on the table for discussion.



You're taking a common sense approach , that's not allowed now ( chuckle)......... a combo I use for the lower 48 since I live in big bear country is pretty much the above , a '94 set up with ghost ring sights combined with a .44 mag revolver , generally I carry either a well developed 300 grain jacketed load i.e. a 300 grain Swift A-Frame stacked over 21.5 to 22 grains of ww-296 or h-110 ( substitute the 300 grain XTP if you wish) or my own cast slugs that come out around 315 grains ( supposed to be 320 but I add more Linotype for hardness) gas-checked over the same charge. Note that Smith revolvers shouldn't be fed a steady diet of either load.

Like others here I feel that the " Scout Rifle" concept has become flawed and possibly outlived it's useful period , though I still do possess a .35 Whelen that is kind of one , along with a .375 ruger that I'm experimenting with.

For far north bear defense , I still prefer a slug gun with the *right* slugs or a Marlin '95 in .45-70 with the proper loading , believe me that the over the counter 405 grain loads can be way improved upon. Drastically improved on , .450 Marlin has also proven to be a viable alternative. Bear defense with a bolt rifle in a heavy caliber such as .416 rem-mag ,.375 H and H etc is all well and good , provided you can hit the mark the FIRST time in that sort of highly stressed situation , however a lever gun , a pump or semi-auto slug gun or the right semi-auto rifle is a a great deal better for most people.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by ROCK6 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:17 am

Paladin1 wrote:OK, a few issues:

-You're about a year late to the thread!
-You have a very nice rifle, looks good!
-Scout rifles suck at everything but being a scout rifle.

Hopefully NP got himself a lightweight fighting rifle that he can also hunt with.
You're taking all the fun out of it Paladin! I personally like the history and concept of the Scout rifle, but it's really a niche rifle. For some locations where you're limited to a bolt gun, they do have some nice features (peep sights and DBM). The LER scopes will always have some debate regarding their purpose and value. I'm indifferent as I could go either way after using LER/IER scopes and conventional scopes. Even with 1X RDS, some mount them further out for both eyes "up" engagements.

I wanted to convert an old Mauser or Mosin, but just never got around to it. I did pick up the second generation Savage 110 Scouts with a Burris scope. I like it; it's nothing special, but works well for hunting. The weight is great:

Image

More recently, I picked up the Mossberg MVP Scout in .308. I love the rail with peep sights. I added a Leupold IER scope which doesn't sit out as far as the typical scout EER scopes, but still gives plenty of eye-relief to allow a heads-up focus. I'm actually quite impressed with this MVP, especially after hearing of a few issues. It feeds reliably from M1A and AR10 mags. The bolt is stiff and needs more work (it isn't an SMLE bolt!), but it's a handy little rifle.

Image

The value is really just the compact size and potentially lower weight. Variable, low-power (1-4/6X) scopes are really nice for a hunting gun and plenty of "tactical" value in quick acquisition along with the option to glass out targets further out. Coopers traditional Scout Rifle has been outclassed by semi-auto battle rifles in all categories except maybe weight; but even that has been trimmed down to be almost no difference. The best value is for those in areas who can't own a semi-auto rifle (nowhere I know of) in .308. Regardless, I like the Scout Rifle and enjoy using them hunting...but I have much better do-all battle rifles to choose from.

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Re: Scout Rifle, or...

Post by LowKey » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:00 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
Sworbeyegib wrote:Other than the Cooper-ism of it all, is there any particular reason why you are enamored with the scout rifle concept? As noted before, they really don't settle into any particular role very well.

And you really should tell us the specifics you are looking this rifle to do. Just saying it is an exercise in SHTF rifle, that is only going to be used for target shooting is pretty vague. A SHTF rifle can be anything from a single shot .22lr, to a full battle rattle AR/AK. We've already discussed in an older thread the drawbacks on relying on a manually operated rifle for a defensive weapon, so I wont bother dredging that up again. And as far as hunting during the SHTF, hunting for what? Small game? Big game? Birds on the wing?

Advancements in tech have really bridged whatever gap he was trying to fill. It seems the role Cooper was trying to fill, was that of an ultralight rifle with fast target acquisition. Advances in tech has given us better optic options, and reduced weight materials.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, is don't let an early 80's design concept dictate what you think you need in a rifle. Figure out what you do need in the gun, and make it that.
The idea I have is to be able to cover any reasonable range with a hard hitting bullet.

I already have a .22 rifle for small critters.

I like the scout rifle concept for the reasons you described above... but after thinking about it for a while, if a .44 magnum round will handle things up close and personal (including larger critters), to about 100 yards, then the point of having a scout rifle is kind of... lost on me.

With that in mind, I'm starting to look for a .44 magnum lever gun (it can share ammo with a .44 magnum revolver, which is going to be what I carry while hiking).

I'm also looking for something that can reach out a bit further... and if the .44 magnum lever gun is for less than 100 yards, then a .308 with a longer-range-than-Cooper-recommended optic scope is certainly on the table for discussion.
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