Pistol Carbine for BOB

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:16 am

eeb wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
tedbeau wrote:
The_bangfrog_MK23 wrote:You might want to have a look at the Brügger&Thomet models TP9 and APC9.

If you are looking for compact rifle caliber gun, check out the SAN SG 553 rifle series or the kinky SG 553 R which actually uses AK47 ammo and mags.
Wow I like the looks of the SG 553 R! it looks like the fire selector has a 1, 3, and 30 round position. Does that mean I can get it in full auto, and it also has a burst mode?
If you live in America, no you can't.
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Lawsuit happening that might change that. Probably won't, but seems to be our best shot at this point (IMO).
I am just going to go ahead and say never. I hate being negative about it but I have been watching this since 1988. However if it ever did make it the ammo manufacturers be behind for decades.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by eeb » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:05 am

Stercutus wrote:
eeb wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
tedbeau wrote:
Wow I like the looks of the SG 553 R! it looks like the fire selector has a 1, 3, and 30 round position. Does that mean I can get it in full auto, and it also has a burst mode?
If you live in America, no you can't.
http://www.gofundme.com/fmxlnk

Lawsuit happening that might change that. Probably won't, but seems to be our best shot at this point (IMO).
I am just going to go ahead and say never. I hate being negative about it but I have been watching this since 1988. However if it ever did make it the ammo manufacturers be behind for decades.
Yeah, I'm almost afraid it's part of a plot for the ATF to justify taking away more of our rights, but the lawsuit is already filed. Might as well vote with our dollars, and make sure the side you support is well funded and able to fully utilize every tool at their disposal.

But, I suppose we've wandered far enough off topic. Sorry, OP.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by priell3 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:40 am

I saw the Just Right Carbine mentioned in an earlier thread. Here is mine in 9mm. I have several 33 round mags for it.

Image
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Dioxin » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:00 am

priell3 wrote:I saw the Just Right Carbine mentioned in an earlier thread. Here is mine in 9mm. I have several 33 round mags for it.
Over what distance is that target?

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by priell3 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:13 pm

Dioxin wrote:
priell3 wrote:I saw the Just Right Carbine mentioned in an earlier thread. Here is mine in 9mm. I have several 33 round mags for it.
Over what distance is that target?
If memory serves, about 25 yards and the target was swaying side to side.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Boom40mm » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:11 am

priell3 wrote:I saw the Just Right Carbine mentioned in an earlier thread. Here is mine in 9mm. I have several 33 round mags for it.

Image

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by clarence » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:19 am

What did you end up with, Dioxin?



Swiss Army Chief Warns Of Social Unrest, Calls Upon Citizens To Arm Themselves

The situation is growing increasingly risky, Blattman begins.

"The threat of terror is rising, hybrid wars are being fought around the globe; the economic outlook is gloomy and the resulting migration flows of displaced persons and refugees have assumed unforeseen dimensions."

Blattmann: "Social unrest can not be ruled out", the vocabulary in public discourse will "dangerously aggressive."

"The mixture is increasingly unappetizing" Blattmann sees the basis of Swiss prosperity, "has long been once again called into question."

He recalls the situation around the two world wars in the last century and advises Switzerland, to arm themselves.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-3 ... themselves
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by jor-el » Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:50 am

I can see maybe one set of circumstances in favor of the PCC.

1) Yeah, a Glock 17 could deliver as much lead on target as a 9mm carbine with a lot of practice. Absent the practice, the PCC only requires rudimentary sight alignment, proper grip and stance. Add in a RDS, and aim becomes a lot easier and faster.

A PCC sits in the same niche as the M1 carbine; for example a Ruger PC9 is almost the same size and weight, and many were outfitted by LEO departments with a similar buttstock magazine pouch that held 2 15 round magazines. For me it serves about the same purpose; more than a pistol, less than a full rifle Cir-el or Lara can wield w/o a lot of issues of blast or flash.

Lara's opinion of the shotgun definitely went negative after trying out a basic course. She would use one only in a dire emergency thanks to finding recoil too objectionable, even with reduced recoil loads (which didn't exist in the late 80's or 90's).

2) If a huge supply of 9mm ammo were available, such as +P Gold Dot. Low flash, higher than typical muzzle velocities from the carbine barrel.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Dioxin » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:08 am

clarence wrote:What did you end up with, Dioxin?
I ended up sitting on the fence not getting anything and concentrating on Long Range Shooting.
I'm not a huge fan of Semi-Auto rifles, so once my bolt-action collection is filled out I'll get something
more in line with this thread.

Most likely a Sig 553 for more serious work, and a 9mm Kriss Vector for fun.

I've some gorgeous Bolt-Actions so if I need to bug out I'll grab one of those and a pistol.
I'd be more inclined to bug in though.

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:36 am

clarence wrote:What did you end up with, Dioxin?



Swiss Army Chief Warns Of Social Unrest, Calls Upon Citizens To Arm Themselves

The situation is growing increasingly risky, Blattman begins.

"The threat of terror is rising, hybrid wars are being fought around the globe; the economic outlook is gloomy and the resulting migration flows of displaced persons and refugees have assumed unforeseen dimensions."

Blattmann: "Social unrest can not be ruled out", the vocabulary in public discourse will "dangerously aggressive."

"The mixture is increasingly unappetizing" Blattmann sees the basis of Swiss prosperity, "has long been once again called into question."

He recalls the situation around the two world wars in the last century and advises Switzerland, to arm themselves.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-3 ... themselves
I read the supposed source article link and it says nothing of the kind.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by clarence » Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:02 am

Schweizer Armee-Chef warnt vor sozialen Unruhen

Der Schweizer Armeechef André Blattmann warnt in der Zeitung Schweiz am Sonntag vor sozialen Unruhen in Europa. Er sieht eine steigende Aggressivität im öffentlichen Diskurs und eine explosive Gefahrenlage.

Blattmann schreibt, die Gefahrenlage sei erheblich: Die Terrorbedrohung steige, hybride Kriege bedrohen den Frieden auf der Welt. Außerdem gäbe es eine Wirtschaftskrise. Auch in den großen Wandeungsbewegungen von Flüchtlingen und Migranten sieht Blattmann eine Gefahr.

Blattmann: «Soziale Unruhe kann nicht ausgeschlossen werden», das Vokabular im öffentlichen Diskurs werde «gefährlich aggressiv»: «Die Mixtur wird zunehmend unappetitlich.» Blattmann sieht die Grundlage des Schweizer Wohlstandes «seit langem wieder einmal infrage gestellt». Er erinnert an die Situation rund um die beiden Weltkriege im vergangenen Jahrhundert und rät der Schweiz, sich zu wappnen.

Schweizer Politiker reagierten mit Unverständnis auf den Beitrag des Armeechefs und halten seine Warnungen für übertrieben.

Die Schweizer Armee hatte bereits vor Jahren Manöver abgehalten, bei denen die Ausgangslage auf soziale Unruhen in Europa ausgerichtet war. Auch der Economist warnte bereits vor geraumer Zeit vor sozialen Spannungen.


http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten ... n-unruhen/


Swiss Army chief warns of social unrest

The Swiss army chief André Blattmann warned in the newspaper Switzerland on Sunday of social unrest in Europe. He sees the increasing aggression in public discourse and an explosive hazard situation.

Blattmann writes, the risk situation is considerably: The terrorist threat climb, hybrid wars threaten the peace in the world. In addition, there is an economic crisis. Even in the big Wandeungsbewegungen of refugees and migrants looks Blattmann a hazard.

Blattmann: "Social unrest can not be ruled out", the vocabulary in public discourse will "dangerously aggressive": ". The mixture is increasingly unappetizing" Blattmann sees the basis of Swiss prosperity, "has long been once again called into question." He recalls the situation around the two world wars in the last century and advises Switzerland, to arm themselves.

Swiss politicians responded with incomprehension on the contribution of the army chief and hold his warnings are exaggerated.

The Swiss Armed Forces had held many years ago maneuver, in which the starting point was focused on social unrest in Europe. Even the Economist warned already some time ago before social tensions.


https://translate.google.com



Social unrest not all bad though:

Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. - The Third Man
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:24 pm

That is not the article they had linked this morning, it was about extra security at the train station in Germany.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Dioxin » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:33 am

http://www.schweizamsonntag.ch/ressort/ ... geaendert/

Is probably the best article for this issue. And I really dont think its calling for Civilians to arm themselves.

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by ZomCon Sargeant » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:43 pm

Our FNH PS90 can breakdown in seconds and be stored inside of my wife's BOB. Also four 50 round loaded mags for it and a extra 100 rounds weigh practically nothing. Yeah it is a 5.7x28mm and very uncommon but it is still considered a pistol caliber as well because of the Five Seven Pistol.
Our Styer AUG A3 M1 (I realize it is not a pistol caliber carbine) barrel can be removed in less than five seconds and stored inside my BOB. Actually my BOB is a Kelty Coyote 80 and I can just throw it inside that without even taking the barrel off.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by jor-el » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:53 pm

Dioxin wrote:http://www.schweizamsonntag.ch/ressort/ ... geaendert/

Is probably the best article for this issue. And I really dont think its calling for Civilians to arm themselves.
It refers to the Swiss militia system. It's not asking civilians to start joining; Swiss citizens have been subject to compulsory military service for decades, if not centuries. Two thirds of males get inducted and begin training, receive uniforms and equipment to include weapons, and periodically return to training.

A good number of citizens are already armed. The article simply suggests deploying them.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:55 pm

I haven't kept up with this thread so I haven't read some of the posts, but if no one mentioned the CZ Scorpion, they should have.

CZ had some crazy cool scorpion variants at SHOT Show this year and they are still the most affordable. Plus, running one suppressed is easy-peasy from what I hear.

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Dioxin » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:04 am

Well since I started this whole conversation I've been back and forth in my head a few times, and Kriss finally decided to release the Vector in 9mm :) and in some funky colours too, the Alpine White is calling out to me! (Hey I live in snow capped mountain territory!)

So my current thinking is to throw more money at the problem and extrapolate to the nth degree!!!

"His meagre supplies upon his back wont last the night, surely the Walmart ahead of him will have some nourishment that hasn't festered or spoiled. As he prepares himself to assault the Zombie hoard of ex-walmart customers and employee, he checks each of his weapons to ensure good function. The Short-Barrel Kriss Carbine will be the first line of offense, 33 round funsticks of 9mm should lay waste to these kinds of scum. Letting his Carbine hang from its sling he press-checks the Glock 17, "prepped and hungry" a wry smile cross his face. But two is one and one is none, he returns the 17 to its holster and reaches behind to grip his last bastion, a Glock 26. Feeling sufficiently confident that Murphy wont be able to trip him up this time, he presses forward for his much needed resupply.

So in short :-) :
Kriss Vector in 9mm, probably with the short barrel
Glock 17
Glock 26

Redunduncy in magazines is pretty high, the only magazine that wont fit in a different gun would be the single 10 rounder in the G26.

And costwise, the Kriss and the 2 Glocks are equal to a single Sig 553 :( but alas the decision still isnt made :)

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by brothaman » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:58 pm

...what a about a Red Dot Glock and a couple o' hate sticks in the BOB along with a couple of standard mags. If this was mentioned, well TLDR.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by clarence » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:03 am

Dioxin wrote:So in short :-) :
Kriss Vector in 9mm, probably with the short barrel
Glock 17
Glock 26

Redunduncy in magazines is pretty high, the only magazine that wont fit in a different gun would be the single 10 rounder in the G26.
Similarly:
Beretta CX-4 in 9mm, with a short stock
Beretta PX-4 SC
Beretta Nano

Redunduncy in magazines is pretty high, the only magazine that won't fit in a different gun would be the single stack in the Nano.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Dioxin » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:48 am

clarence wrote: Similarly:
Beretta CX-4 in 9mm, with a short stock
Beretta PX-4 SC
Beretta Nano

Redunduncy in magazines is pretty high, the only magazine that won't fit in a different gun would be the single stack in the Nano.
Well here you only have 2 weapons that share magazines, in my example all 3 weapons shared magazines. It was a single magazine, not a single weapon.

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by clarence » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:45 am

Yeah, that is nice.

Thought about going with the Compact and SC, but the single-stack Nano is slim enough I could pocket carry if wanted. Thought that more important than shared magazines.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by ashwednesday » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:48 am

How about, a dependable rifle in a rifle caliber and a reliable pistol in a pistol caliber, so you have two tools that suit two different roles instead of two of almost the same tools for almost the same size and weight?

It seems to me that being able to shoot bad guys at farther distances is more important than being able to use the same magazines in different platforms. For reference, see: just about every military in existence today.

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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by clarence » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:45 am

Preppers aren't soldiers.
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Re: Pistol Carbine for BOB

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:35 pm

Logistics win the long fight.

Why stockpile .223 or .308 when I can buy a nice 9mm PCC. 9 is cheap and easy to find in both pre and post eotw.if all you need is for a pistol round to travel a little farther and a little faster and you only have the money to stockpile one type of ammo, a PCC maybe a good option .

There is also urban vs. Rural ao to consider.

But a pistol round, no matter what it is fired from is going to kill large game.
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