Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Forum dedicated for rifles and shotguns from basic to tactical.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

gun toting monkeyboy
* * * *
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:53 pm

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:04 pm

hotlead wrote:Of the three, I think the SMLE is the superior battle rifle. Twice the onboard capacity, a very fast bolt once you get used to cock on closing, sights could be better but are perfectly fine for the purpose, plenty accurate, and .303 ball actually had a wooden plug in the nose giving great accuracy potential but also gave devastating terminal ballistics on soft targets. The only negative would be that of the three, the smelly is the only one susceptible to rim lock. If .303 was rimless, and it used receiver mounted peep sights, then I couldn't think of a more perfect bolt action battle rifle.

MNs are fun, I have a few, but certainly wouldn't be my first choice. The Mausers controlled feed fixed extractor precludes loading right into the chamber, for whatever that means to you. I'd like the option.

I vote SMLE.
It wasn't so much wood as it was several different, lighter-weight materials. The used aluminum, a cellulose-based plastic or wood pulp, depending on what was available at the time. And then encased the whole thing in a metal jacket. But you are right, it didn't effect the accuracy, but then caused the bullet to tumble when it hit, making really nasty wounds. The problem is finding the older milsurp rounds that are made that way. Most modern .303 Brit bullets are of conventional design. The last batch I found that had that set-up was some old Iraqi ammo, loaded with cordite and a replica of the British ball ammo.

Funny thing about your wanting a rimless version with a peep sight. That is not the first time somebody has thought of that. The Japanese thought exactly the same thing right before WWII. The 7.7 Arisaka rifle and cartridge were designed to do exactly that. And while most loadings post WWII put the 7.7 into the .308/.30-06 range, the original loadings were nearly identical to the .303 British. They viewed the ballistics as more than adequate for fighting the kind of war they were anticipating.

-Mb

User avatar
Beowolf
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Aaaaaa Zombies, 28 Days Later
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Beowolf » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:25 pm

Lookee what I got

Image

Savage No.4 Mk.1*, 1944ish.
The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead. And the Dead keep it. Until the time comes. The way is shut.
-
Keeper of the ZS Fleet Number thread.
ZS Wiki

hotlead
* *
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:11 am
Location: East Bay, S.F. Bay Area, Ca.

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by hotlead » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:00 pm

Pics yo!

My 1941 No.1 with 5" S&W Victory in .38/200,

Image
"your 9mm might expand when it hits the target, but my .45 sure as hell won't shrink"- Arguing with my Brother about pistol calibers.

"You can never have too many guns, yo-yos, or crayons"- Mrs. Hotlead speaking to my Nephew.

"If you don't let your farts out, you'll get bad breath"- Talking to my Neice at a campfire

User avatar
JeeperCreeper
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 2499
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Twilight... making zombies of our future generations
Location: Yo Momma's House

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by JeeperCreeper » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:12 pm

PROS:

Mosin: Good for cheap plinking, hunting, beating around guilt free, all purpose utility gun

Mauser: It's a mauser, with a mauser action, and mauser coolness, and you get to say the word "mauser"

Enfield: It's speaks in a funny british accent, has a super fast bolt, you can talk about the canadian polar guard or whatever

CONS:

Mosin: Everytime you go to the range, someone will say, "Hey, my first rifle was a Mosin too!! Wanna see my HiPoint??"

Mauser: Some are collectable, some aren't, you have to be an expert to truly know, ammo is hard to find in some varieties for anything other than plinking

Enfield: Not as good as a .30-06


I picked Mosin, an M44 to be exact. Fun little flamethrower and shoulder cannon.
They see me trollin', they hatin'.... keyboardin' tryna catch me typin' dirty
Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
zero11010 wrote:The girlfriend is a good shot with a 10/22.
Her secondary offense will be nagging.

User avatar
Mikeyboy
* * * * *
Posts: 2265
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Mikeyboy » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:48 am

I think Enfield are sweet, but ever guy I know who owned one, usually bitch about the .303 ammo price and lack of availability. Honestly this was "pre-ammo panic" days and these days I can find .303 a lot easier, and at cheaper price that 7x57 or 8mm Mauser round. Ironically Cabelas has Herter ammo and has two versions of .303 (150g and 180g) selling for $18.99 just a buck more that a box of 7.62x54R. If you can get your head around the fact that .303 is a bit of a "specialty" round and you will never find it in Walmart you will be fine.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting ... t104532480

The big selling point of the Mosin was cheap rifle and cheap ammo...unfortunately all that cheap bulk Soviet ammo is drying up, and the days of $89 Mosin are over. Now that Mosins are creeping up to $150 or more, if you are ok with paying $100 for the rifle, and 5 cents more for round of ammo, you can get an Enfield or maybe a Mauser instead of a Mosin.

User avatar
Beowolf
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Aaaaaa Zombies, 28 Days Later
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Beowolf » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:52 am

I figure factory .303 from Prvi is only 10-15 cents more per round than .308, so it's not a huge hit.

But I won't be shooting the Enfield much. :) I figure I'll snag 100 rounds or so just to have around. No need to load up like I have with .308/7.62.
The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead. And the Dead keep it. Until the time comes. The way is shut.
-
Keeper of the ZS Fleet Number thread.
ZS Wiki

hotlead
* *
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:11 am
Location: East Bay, S.F. Bay Area, Ca.

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by hotlead » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:20 pm

The wood on your rifle sure looks nice Beowolf, much nicer than mine, is yours refinished?
"your 9mm might expand when it hits the target, but my .45 sure as hell won't shrink"- Arguing with my Brother about pistol calibers.

"You can never have too many guns, yo-yos, or crayons"- Mrs. Hotlead speaking to my Nephew.

"If you don't let your farts out, you'll get bad breath"- Talking to my Neice at a campfire

User avatar
Beowolf
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Aaaaaa Zombies, 28 Days Later
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Beowolf » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:38 pm

You know, I suspect it has been treated since way back when. But there are markings on it that make me think it may well have been original. I understand Savage used birch in the later production years, I think?
The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead. And the Dead keep it. Until the time comes. The way is shut.
-
Keeper of the ZS Fleet Number thread.
ZS Wiki

Black Beard
* *
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:34 am

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Black Beard » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:02 am

Another vote for none of the above, K31 instead.

The K31 is more accurate and faster shooting than any of the others. I've also got one.:-)
The only bad thing is that the bolt mechanism has to be worked hard to be reliable and reloading is more of a challenge because of funny die sizes. Using the bolt so that it doesn't throw the cases a few feet in to the air (which dents them when they land) takes a bit of practice.

If I had to chose one of the 3 I would get an Enfield.

zoiders
* * * *
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by zoiders » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:59 am

hotlead wrote:Pics yo!

My 1941 No.1 with 5" S&W Victory in .38/200,

Image
How are you getting the date 1941?

Is it Australian?

User avatar
Beowolf
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Aaaaaa Zombies, 28 Days Later
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Beowolf » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:04 pm

Black Beard wrote:Another vote for none of the above, K31 instead.

The K31 is more accurate and faster shooting than any of the others. I've also got one.:-)
The only bad thing is that the bolt mechanism has to be worked hard to be reliable and reloading is more of a challenge because of funny die sizes. Using the bolt so that it doesn't throw the cases a few feet in to the air (which dents them when they land) takes a bit of practice.

If I had to chose one of the 3 I would get an Enfield.
Is this what you're talking about?
The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead. And the Dead keep it. Until the time comes. The way is shut.
-
Keeper of the ZS Fleet Number thread.
ZS Wiki

User avatar
Hollis
* * *
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:39 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Resident Evil, Fido, 28 days later, Night of the Living Dead,
Location: Pacific Northwet/Ecotopia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Hollis » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:48 pm

Beowolf wrote:
Is this what you're talking about?

I cannot answer for the OP, Yep that is a K31, great rifle.

The Canadian Ross was another great straight pull.......... except it hated dirt and mud and anything to do with trench warfare.
Zombies don't ski.

Black Beard
* *
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:34 am

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Black Beard » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:07 am

Yes. Lovely rifles and a bargain at that price.

You can get the chargers from Germany for a lot less than US sellers (mine were equivalent to about $5 each). Privi sells ammunition and cases.
Swissarms does a nice side scope mount. You can get aftermarket spare magazines in the US (not allowed to export to UK as a military gun :-( I got lots of chargers instead).

The 7.5mm round is about as powerful as .308 but works better with heavier bullets and is lower pressure.

User avatar
Beowolf
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Aaaaaa Zombies, 28 Days Later
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Beowolf » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:33 pm

Guy a few hours away is selling a 1942 Savage Enfield plus ammo for $375obo.

:ohdear:

Must resist desire to collect.
The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead. And the Dead keep it. Until the time comes. The way is shut.
-
Keeper of the ZS Fleet Number thread.
ZS Wiki

shoggoth80
* * * * *
Posts: 1406
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:34 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Too many to list in total. The Romero films are classic... but Fido cracks me up!
Location: Seattle area
Contact:

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by shoggoth80 » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:35 am

Tough argument.

Get a Mosin because it should still be cheap to feed, and it's accurate enough with a little tweaking. Or, Spend some more money, and get a Finn M39, because those are a different breed all together, and worth it.

Get a Mauser flavor because there's nothing else like them in terms of variety, but there is also few things that touch some of the finer models in terms of accuracy. Swede Mausers are something else, but the older guns in 7mm are also very pleasing to shoot. The contract made 98/22s are highly regarded in terms of accuracy. If you get one in nice shape, the workmanship on them is something to be admired as well.

Get an Enfield because they are generally more than accurate enough, and hold more rounds.

Yes, a Swiss rifle is one amazing bolt gun, but not part of the argument.
Generally (for conversation sake), the unholy trifecta are: Swiss K31, Swede Mauser, and Mauder 98/22. These three are highly regarded for their accuracy potential among milsurp bolt guns.

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Dawgboy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:40 pm

I have seen a lot of Mausers converted to 30-06. Does anybody ever convert Enfields to 308? Seems like the action could handle it to me, provided with a fresh barrel...
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:07 pm

Dawgboy wrote:I have seen a lot of Mausers converted to 30-06. Does anybody ever convert Enfields to 308? Seems like the action could handle it to me, provided with a fresh barrel...
I jsut double checked to be sure, but the 308 max pressure is significantly higher. There used to be a company that converted Enfields to 7.62x39 with AK mags, but I haven't seen any recently.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
Dawgboy
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 3072
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:35 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the dead, Fido
Location: San Diego, CA
Contact:

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Dawgboy » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:10 pm

Well I do understand the Ishapores can handle 7.62-51, but not .308, That's why I was wondering...
shrapnel wrote:Dawgboy, please refrain from stirring shit for the sole purpose of stirring shit.
[ZS/]# .40/Pie/CERT/Wireless...
My homebrew stove kit
IMPROVED Solar Redneck Hot tub
Dawgvan
Chupa Chihuahua
GHB

User avatar
naegling62
* * * * *
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Occupied Alabama(C.S.A.)

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by naegling62 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:44 pm

hotlead wrote:Pics yo!

My 1941 No.1 with 5" S&W Victory in .38/200,

Image
Nice set up. I have many Mosins, Mausers and much more. If I were to have to pick my favorite I would go with the Enfield. I prefer the sights on the #4. I have a unissued #4 Mk 2 UF 55....haven't shot it yet..just a safe queen.
Trioxin wrote:If that means I need a tinfoil hat, then dammit it, hand me my silver sombrero.
Packaged in USA
from products and materials produced in China


Hwæt! Wé Gárdena in géardagum þéodcyninga þrym gefrúnon· hú ðá æþelingas ellen fremedon.

User avatar
Beowolf
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:11 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Aaaaaa Zombies, 28 Days Later
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Beowolf » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:47 pm

I finally bought ammo for the Enfield. Will get to the range with it in the next few weeks, hopefully.

If I see the K31s come up on sale again, I may just have to snag one. Because reasons.
The way is shut. It was made by those who are Dead. And the Dead keep it. Until the time comes. The way is shut.
-
Keeper of the ZS Fleet Number thread.
ZS Wiki

User avatar
ROCK6
* * *
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:44 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Still working on it!
Location: Georgia

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by ROCK6 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:57 pm

Dawgboy wrote:Well I do understand the Ishapores can handle 7.62-51, but not .308, That's why I was wondering...
This has been a cautionary diatribe, but nothing definitive. The issue is that they recommend against the maximum SAAMI pressures of .308 as they do exceed standard 7.62.51 loads; but that is "maximum", not average and not typical of the majority of commercial hunting ammo. The whole notion of "exploding" actions has been debunked and not even related to the .308 Ishapore rifles. Many moons ago some .303 British Ishapores had some severe throat erosion and not head-spaced properly...those did have some catastrophic failures (as mentioned in a very old NRA article). I've fired maybe a hundred rounds of various .308 commercial rounds out of my two Ishapore rifles, but I have plenty of NATO surplus stuff...the Enfields are battlefield accurate and I just don't like to waste premier ammo in them.

As usual, shooter beware, but sometimes stories get mixed and fears give way to rumors and rumors become third-hand factual reports read somewhere on the Internet or the local gun store/range gossip groups.

ROCK6

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by crypto » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:51 am

ROCK6 wrote: As usual, shooter beware, but sometimes stories get mixed and fears give way to rumors and rumors become third-hand factual reports read somewhere on the Internet or the local gun store/range gossip groups.

ROCK6
Here's a first-hand story:
I owned a Ishapore Enfield that passed headspace checks, ran NATO ammo just fine, and exhibited dangerous brass bulging with commercial .308 Federal Fusion ammo. I ran 2 boxes of it and was finishing up the second box when I realized all my cases were swollen up like sausages just forward of the case head. If one had ruptured I would have had a bad day. I posted pics of the brass on the previous page of this very thread, it's clearly deformed. NATO cartridges showed no such deformation.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
Mad Dog Jones
*
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:19 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of th Living Dead(colorized)1968;
Dawn of th Dead(1978);
Day of th Dead(1985);
Night of th Living Dead(remake)1990;
Dawn of th Dead;
Land of th Dead;
Day of th Dead;
Diary of th Dead;
Survival of th Dead;
Remains by Steve Niles;
Dance of th Dead by Gregg Bishop;
State of Emergency by Turner Clay;
Night of th Comet;
Automation Transfusion;
Gangs of th Dead;
Planet Terror;
Zombieland;
28 Days Later;
28 Week Later;
Days of Darkness;
Gangsters,Guns, and Zombies;
etc.etc...
Location: MO.,U.S.A.

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Mad Dog Jones » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:51 pm

Gentlemen, u are all very knowledgeable, and fluent in firearms, of th 3 actions in question, th mauser action is th strongest, and had th rimless cartridge(8mmX57mm) a .323dia. bore, and because of its extractor design, can be rebarreled to just about any cartridge available, and by th way, 20 rd. trench mags can still be found and purchased for these longarms. The Enfield, typically .303British(.311dia. bore) is a rimmed cartridge and yes can suffer rim lock senerios, unless u purchase th SMLE IIA in 7.62mmX51mmNato aka:.308Win.(.308dia. bore) a rimless modern cartridge, 12rd. detachable box mag., after market 10rd'rs are available, and it is stripper clip frieendly, unlike th other two actions its bolt handle is already turned downward, making this action scopeable without having to rework th bolt handle or purchase a sniper rifle bolt for th action. Th Mosin/Nagant o91/30 is 7.62mmX54R, (.311,.310,.309,.308dia. bores, all are possiable), th R means russian, however for our discission it might as well mean rimmed, this action also suffers from rim lock senerio especially when using stripper clips. Ammo is cheap and plentiful, and I can get these for just a little over $120 ea. making it th most affordable of th three actions in question. Now, because it was mentioned, and is also in th old WWII class of surplus combat rifles, th Schmitt/Rubin K31 carbine in 7.5mmX55mm(.308dia. bore), a modern rimless cartridge, this cammed, straight pull T handled bolt action, meaning one pulls th bolt straight back, then slams it straight forward, 2 positions instead of 4 as with th previous 3 actions, fast repeteing, some where produced in 7.62mmX51mmNato(.308Win.) with 6rd. detachable box mags., stripper clip friendly. I have owned, reloaded, modified, and shot th hell out of all of these actions, and still have 1/2 of them. Fellows, each one has carved its nich in history and proven its self combat worthy, but in th end its th s
Mathew22:35-We are our own worst enemies,-Mad Dog-And ego is it's name.
Th only valuable thing in existance is love, and yes, you can take it with you when you go. Nothing else really matters.-MadDog

User avatar
Mad Dog Jones
*
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:19 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of th Living Dead(colorized)1968;
Dawn of th Dead(1978);
Day of th Dead(1985);
Night of th Living Dead(remake)1990;
Dawn of th Dead;
Land of th Dead;
Day of th Dead;
Diary of th Dead;
Survival of th Dead;
Remains by Steve Niles;
Dance of th Dead by Gregg Bishop;
State of Emergency by Turner Clay;
Night of th Comet;
Automation Transfusion;
Gangs of th Dead;
Planet Terror;
Zombieland;
28 Days Later;
28 Week Later;
Days of Darkness;
Gangsters,Guns, and Zombies;
etc.etc...
Location: MO.,U.S.A.

Re: Mosin vs. Enfield vs. Mauser--which and why?

Post by Mad Dog Jones » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:09 pm

By th way, my Ishapore India Enfield SMLE 2A, and I personally have seperated head stamps, ruptured case webbing(side walls), and split necks, of over 40 some pieces of Winchester brass with hot loads in one days worth of shooting, and found that Ishapore Indian gun to be up for th game. Experince is a hell of a teacher.
Last edited by Mad Dog Jones on Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mathew22:35-We are our own worst enemies,-Mad Dog-And ego is it's name.
Th only valuable thing in existance is love, and yes, you can take it with you when you go. Nothing else really matters.-MadDog

Post Reply

Return to “Longarms - Shotguns and Rifles”