Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

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Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Mikeyboy » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:36 pm

I already have two AR rifles, so this is not an AR v. Mini-14 and Kel Tec SU-16 thread, but I'm looking for something different to play with on the range and just another SHTF rifle to have that isn't another AR.

The Debate between a New Mini-14 or a New Kel Tec SU-16.

In the past, I have heard horror stories with Mini-14 accuracy, that they were inaccurate "bullet hoses". Supposedly the new Mini-14 tacticals have improved accuracy and with the Ruger factory mags reliability has also improved to AK & Glock status. I really like the looks of the Mini, and its a very solid rifle, but the +$800 price point these days is very annoying. If the price comes down below $800 I might consider buying one.

The Kel Tec SU-16 is much more economical price wise ...if you can find one. I already own a Sub 2K for years and I love it. Sure its ugly as sin, but the SU-16 takes AR mags (which I already have, but would need more with a 2nd rifle) and I like that the fold up making them more compact for storage and travel. Also the SU-16 even post panic can still be had for the $550 to $700. My big concern is long term durability. I know its not an heirloom rifle, but will it fall apart after 5000 rounds.

So my question is what will be more accurate, more durable, and a better buy...the Mini-14 or the SU-16.

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14Tac ... odels.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16a/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16b/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Slugg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:35 am

I have owned an SU16 and loved it. However, I have owned multiple ruger firearms as well. Company vs company I'd say Ruger personally. Just from my experience. But the Su16 is better when it comes to design in my opinion(same mags, more compact when folded)

I'd say the mini14 because at the end of the day, it's a better made rifle. The quality of ruger has always been awesome to me and that polymer stuff scares me from the rumors.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by greglambert » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:55 am

These are 2 different rifles for 2 different needs. The kel-Tec is a folding rifle great for survival, great trunk gun that uses AR mags. The mini is a ranch rifle stealthy in its very untacticool look.

I like them both, the Kel-Tec may not be pretty but it is rugged enough to get you home or to your bug out location where your other stuff is. The mini is lots of fun on the range more accurate than most folks give it credit for and has a very nice traditional look. I can imagine situations where you might not want to look so military.

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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by MasterMaker » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:49 pm

Which would you pick if your life and survival depended on it?

I would go for the Mini14.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Siggy01 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:23 pm

If I had to pick, I'd go with the ruger, I have a few different rugers personally so I know how rugged they are. Keltec makes some cool designs, but I wouldn't ever use it other than as a range toy.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:36 pm

MasterMaker wrote:Which would you pick if your life and survival depended on it?
I'd suspect one of his two ARs.


OP, magazine commonality wins the day for me.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by RonnyRonin » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:33 pm

for me I see the Kel-tec having less overlap with the ARs, the mini-14 might have a lot going for it over the SU-16, but not much over the ARs, but what the kel-tec DOES do it does better then both (mostly being light, compact, and cheap).
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by MaconCJ7 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:48 am

The Mini "inaccuracy" worries are largely over inflated. Are they inaccurate? Yes. You won't win a competition with one. However, they're AK accurate. For it's purpose, you can drop a coyote at 100m without much effort. Supposedly the newer ones have tighter clearances, or better QC, whatever the problem was with the older ones. I'm sure this is to put it in more direct competition with AR's.

As for what I would pick, it would depend largely on the role I want it to fill. As a general utility rifle that's not an AR, I'd go with the Mini-14. You might not be able to hit fly poo at 500m, but it is a reliable, sturdy rifle. If I were to be looking for a "fun gun", "trunk gun", or some other use where it would get all dinged up for no good reason, I'd go with the KelTec, as I would have fewer hurt feelings if it were damaged.

Mag differences are definitely a consideration. You already have AR's, and the KelTec can share mags. The Ruger has to use Ruger mags, at about $40/ea. Since it wouldn't be your bugout carbine, you don't need as many on hand either. The Mini also looks "not evil" when you throw in a 5-10 rd mag.

For durability, the Mini wins without argument. I don't have experience with the KelTec, but have done a lot of looking and many people have durability issues, mostly with the front sight block on the A and B models. I do have experience with the Mini, and it handles abuse quite well.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by MasterMaker » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:35 pm

Magazine commonality.... I keep mentioning ammo commonality(the ammo most prevalent(used by military, police, commercial sales etc)in your AO) and having at least one gun in any caliber you are likely to encounter(all your stored .45 rounds are gone and the only ammo that is still around and available is .40 and you don't have a gun for it, and since it is the only ammo available no one with a gun chambered for it is willing to part with it= prep fail.)

(this also makes me a fan of the contender carbine, not very fightable but coming across a 20 round box of whatever and already having a barrel with sights (that are sighted in) means 2-3 shots to check/adjust zero and 17-18 animals for food)

Anyway....there are a lot of mini's out there so instead of arguing against magazine availability I can rephrase what I said.

If both your AR's were lost or destroyed, which gun would you be the most comfortable with being stuck with and having your life dependent upon?
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:25 pm

MasterMaker wrote:If both your AR's were lost or destroyed, which gun would you be the most comfortable with being stuck with and having your life dependent upon?
Ooh, good point--maybe he should consider another AR. :crazy:
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by eeb » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:30 pm

Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
MasterMaker wrote:If both your AR's were lost or destroyed, which gun would you be the most comfortable with being stuck with and having your life dependent upon?
Ooh, good point--maybe he should consider another AR. :crazy:
Can't have too many. That way most of the other parts will interchange, not just the mags.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:43 am

eeb wrote:
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
MasterMaker wrote:If both your AR's were lost or destroyed, which gun would you be the most comfortable with being stuck with and having your life dependent upon?
Ooh, good point--maybe he should consider another AR. :crazy:
Can't have too many. That way most of the other parts will interchange, not just the mags.
Excellent point. :D


I used blue text earlier because I recognize that the OP already has 2 ARs and wants something different. If the argument is that we're worried about losing two SHTF rifles, and this third rifle should be a SHTF rifle, it makes sense to pick what the OP picked for his first and second choice for a SHTF rifle, right? If not, at very least it should be something that uses the resources he already has--mags, ammo, optics, sling, and so on. If OP loses both ARs, the Kel-Tec would at least be able to use the same magazines, unless they were magically lost as well...in which case, why are we worried about ammo commonality--what if all his ammo is lost, too? :roll: Either way, I vote against the Mini.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:04 am

Another option would be the Mossberg MVP. Bolt guns are fun, and the tactical version has an AR-friendly twist rate, threaded barrel, and takes standard AR mags. Could be fun for playing around with some M193.
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Mini-14 barrels, pre and post 2005

Post by jor-el » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:13 pm

Early Mini-14 barrels. The one on the bottom.

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The factory pencil barrel tended to have barrel harmonics issues.

Hence the development of strut attachments to damp vibrations.

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Ruger in its 2005 updating of machinery addressed the issue by changing the contour of the barrel to add weight at strategic points.

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Between the two approaches the accuracy issues are resolved, barrel wise. Stock fit can still cause some problems.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by xd dude » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:10 pm

If you want something fun, and able to handle the abuse you'll get on this forum, the su-16 is a lot of fun. I have the charlie model and its a blast. It can fire when folded which is cool too. If its a trunk gun, you won't have to worry about putting it together when you need it.

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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by MasterMaker » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:37 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Another option would be the Mossberg MVP. Bolt guns are fun, and the tactical version has an AR-friendly twist rate, threaded barrel, and takes standard AR mags. Could be fun for playing around with some M193.
I'm kind of partial to the 7615 myself, but oh how I wish they would make a 7621/7610(or some such numbering) that would take AR10 or m14 mag's, that would be an instant win and they would sell a lot of them.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by xd dude » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:32 am

MasterMaker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Another option would be the Mossberg MVP. Bolt guns are fun, and the tactical version has an AR-friendly twist rate, threaded barrel, and takes standard AR mags. Could be fun for playing around with some M193.
I'm kind of partial to the 7615 myself, but oh how I wish they would make a 7621/7610(or some such numbering) that would take AR10 or m14 mag's, that would be an instant win and they would sell a lot of them.
I thought the general consensus was, Mossberg doesn't do logical anymore.

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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:36 am

xd dude wrote:
MasterMaker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Another option would be the Mossberg MVP. Bolt guns are fun, and the tactical version has an AR-friendly twist rate, threaded barrel, and takes standard AR mags. Could be fun for playing around with some M193.
I'm kind of partial to the 7615 myself, but oh how I wish they would make a 7621/7610(or some such numbering) that would take AR10 or m14 mag's, that would be an instant win and they would sell a lot of them.
I thought the general consensus was, Mossberg doesn't do logical anymore.
The 76xx rifles are Remingtons.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by eeb » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:03 am

Last time I checked, a.223 Savage Axis was about $300. Just checked the Savage site,1:9 twist rate pretty AR friendly. Was considering getting one a while ago, but ended up just putting some more AR parts together into a rifle.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by MasterMaker » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:59 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
xd dude wrote:
MasterMaker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Another option would be the Mossberg MVP. Bolt guns are fun, and the tactical version has an AR-friendly twist rate, threaded barrel, and takes standard AR mags. Could be fun for playing around with some M193.
I'm kind of partial to the 7615 myself, but oh how I wish they would make a 7621/7610(or some such numbering) that would take AR10 or m14 mag's, that would be an instant win and they would sell a lot of them.
I thought the general consensus was, Mossberg doesn't do logical anymore.
The 76xx rifles are Remingtons.
I found that to be so self evident that I didn't bother including it, logic aside the 76xx series does smell of unfulfilled potential, they got half way there when they introduced the 7615 but they're still 2.06 millimeters from getting it right.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by eeb » Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:16 pm

I found that to be so self evident that I didn't bother including it, logic aside the 76xx series does smell of unfulfilled potential, they got half way there when they introduced the 7615 but they're still 2.06 millimeters from getting it right.[/quote]

Well the 7600 is available in .30 cal, but the magazine capacity might be less than some would like. Just checked the website, it does use a detachable box mag, though probably not one of the myriad options available for the 308 AR.
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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by xd dude » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:36 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
xd dude wrote:
MasterMaker wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Another option would be the Mossberg MVP. Bolt guns are fun, and the tactical version has an AR-friendly twist rate, threaded barrel, and takes standard AR mags. Could be fun for playing around with some M193.
I'm kind of partial to the 7615 myself, but oh how I wish they would make a 7621/7610(or some such numbering) that would take AR10 or m14 mag's, that would be an instant win and they would sell a lot of them.
I thought the general consensus was, Mossberg doesn't do logical anymore.
The 76xx rifles are Remingtons.
Sorry, I quoted the wrong post. Humor fail.

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Re: Something un-AR, New mini-14 vs Kel-Tec SU-16?

Post by lilMAC25 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:39 pm

Maybe consider a Sig 556 or 556R?

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