ar or ak...?

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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:05 pm

omega_man wrote:
gravediggerfour wrote:
TDW586 wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote: Maybe it was something else stuck in the tube IDK
So what's the story, here? If you don't know whether it was "something else stuck in the tube", that means you never checked to see if it was blocked, right? If you had, you'd be able to say whether it was something else stuck in the gas tube.

So why would you claim you'd seen a blocked gas tube? What made you think it was blocked?
He was having a Dogan moment.
Is that an adjective now? :lol:
Yes.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Chris@MTCT » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:06 pm

omega_man wrote:
gravediggerfour wrote:
TDW586 wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote: Maybe it was something else stuck in the tube IDK
So what's the story, here? If you don't know whether it was "something else stuck in the tube", that means you never checked to see if it was blocked, right? If you had, you'd be able to say whether it was something else stuck in the gas tube.

So why would you claim you'd seen a blocked gas tube? What made you think it was blocked?
He was having a Dogan moment.
Is that an adjective now? :lol:
Dogan (adjective) To express something as fact with no evidence or proof there of.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:09 pm

omega_man wrote:
gravediggerfour wrote:
TDW586 wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote: Maybe it was something else stuck in the tube IDK
So what's the story, here? If you don't know whether it was "something else stuck in the tube", that means you never checked to see if it was blocked, right? If you had, you'd be able to say whether it was something else stuck in the gas tube.

So why would you claim you'd seen a blocked gas tube? What made you think it was blocked?
He was having a Dogan moment.
Is that an adjective now? :lol:

I don't know what it was, but break free sprayed down the gas tube solved the problem. So I guess single shot problem, solved by cleaning gas tube, gave me the idea that it was blocked. I really don't give two shits if you guys believe me or not, but why would you jump to the stupid fucking conclusion that it wasn't blocked simply because I have no idea what was blocking it. other than the fact that it was cleared with a blast from the cleaner I don't know what it was.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by TDW586 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:35 pm

Because what you were saying did not make sense. Dude, there's no reason to get your feelings hurt. You happen to be talking to a group of pretty experienced guys. Three Marine combat veterans, at least three Army unless I missed one, and more importantly, we're all guys who have put thousands upon thousands of rounds downrange with AR type rifles. Some of us, like GD4 and myself that I know of for sure, have been in positions where we directly observe literally millions of rounds fired through AR-type rifles.

So when you make a declaration that is bullshit in our collective experience, you might want to consider that you are mistaken. I have never, once, seen a gas tube blocked. Every SME I have spoken to says that cleaning the gas tube is completely unnecessary. I would suggest that the cause of the problem that you describe was not, in fact, a blocked gas tube.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:37 pm

Because the physics isn't there. A blast from an aerosol at what, 600 psi maybe dislodged whatever got stuck in there at 100x the pressure...I am not a smart man, and I will tell you that math don't float. I have read one self-report of this happening after firing shitty .22lr one day, not cleaning it, and 5.56 the next, but only when he upper was new, and the first thing fired was several hundred rounds of .22, and shooting lube wouldn't clear it, since it was a piece of lead stuck in there. What did the shooter do in your case, spray lube down the gas tube?

I have heard rumors of wolf doing it, usually from the guys that advise people that 5.56 is a .22 and that an AR should be run dry, since it is DI.

Once again, I call bullshit on this story unless the guy had stuck something in the gas tube to begin with, but then a shot of lube wouldn't fix that.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Braxton » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:43 pm

Back on topic..


If you want that AR 47 thing.. Why not? Buy it. shoot it. Run a few classes with it.

Then give us your opinion.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:54 pm

Braxton wrote:Back on topic..


If you want that AR 47 thing.. Why not? Buy it. shoot it. Run a few classes with it.

Then give us your opinion.
I would rather just get a hold of the lower and build it...I already have a 7.62x39 upper, and from the looks of the pic the upper is a standard upper. Do you think anything would be different
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:57 pm

Doc Torr wrote:Because the physics isn't there. A blast from an aerosol at what, 600 psi maybe dislodged whatever got stuck in there at 100x the pressure...I am not a smart man, and I will tell you that math don't float. I have read one self-report of this happening after firing shitty .22lr one day, not cleaning it, and 5.56 the next, but only when he upper was new, and the first thing fired was several hundred rounds of .22, and shooting lube wouldn't clear it, since it was a piece of lead stuck in there. What did the shooter do in your case, spray lube down the gas tube?

I have heard rumors of wolf doing it, usually from the guys that advise people that 5.56 is a .22 and that an AR should be run dry, since it is DI.

Once again, I call bullshit on this story unless the guy had stuck something in the gas tube to begin with, but then a shot of lube wouldn't fix that.
I'm not gonna argue about it. I just hope one day when you are at the range it happens to you, so in the back of your head you can think to yourself, fuck...it can happen.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:58 pm

zombie_kibble wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:Because the physics isn't there. A blast from an aerosol at what, 600 psi maybe dislodged whatever got stuck in there at 100x the pressure...I am not a smart man, and I will tell you that math don't float. I have read one self-report of this happening after firing shitty .22lr one day, not cleaning it, and 5.56 the next, but only when he upper was new, and the first thing fired was several hundred rounds of .22, and shooting lube wouldn't clear it, since it was a piece of lead stuck in there. What did the shooter do in your case, spray lube down the gas tube?

I have heard rumors of wolf doing it, usually from the guys that advise people that 5.56 is a .22 and that an AR should be run dry, since it is DI.

Once again, I call bullshit on this story unless the guy had stuck something in the gas tube to begin with, but then a shot of lube wouldn't fix that.
I'm not gonna argue about it. I just hope one day when you are at the range it happens to you, so in the back of your head you can think to yourself, fuck...it can happen.
$1000 says it never does.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Braxton » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:01 am

Just from looking at it. I would think that its a one off that only fits on there lowers. Might call them and ask.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:06 am

Doc Torr wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:Because the physics isn't there. A blast from an aerosol at what, 600 psi maybe dislodged whatever got stuck in there at 100x the pressure...I am not a smart man, and I will tell you that math don't float. I have read one self-report of this happening after firing shitty .22lr one day, not cleaning it, and 5.56 the next, but only when he upper was new, and the first thing fired was several hundred rounds of .22, and shooting lube wouldn't clear it, since it was a piece of lead stuck in there. What did the shooter do in your case, spray lube down the gas tube?

I have heard rumors of wolf doing it, usually from the guys that advise people that 5.56 is a .22 and that an AR should be run dry, since it is DI.

Once again, I call bullshit on this story unless the guy had stuck something in the gas tube to begin with, but then a shot of lube wouldn't fix that.
I'm not gonna argue about it. I just hope one day when you are at the range it happens to you, so in the back of your head you can think to yourself, fuck...it can happen.

$1000 says it never does.

maybe
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Tobias05 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:10 am

zombie_kibble wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:Because the physics isn't there. A blast from an aerosol at what, 600 psi maybe dislodged whatever got stuck in there at 100x the pressure...I am not a smart man, and I will tell you that math don't float. I have read one self-report of this happening after firing shitty .22lr one day, not cleaning it, and 5.56 the next, but only when he upper was new, and the first thing fired was several hundred rounds of .22, and shooting lube wouldn't clear it, since it was a piece of lead stuck in there. What did the shooter do in your case, spray lube down the gas tube?

I have heard rumors of wolf doing it, usually from the guys that advise people that 5.56 is a .22 and that an AR should be run dry, since it is DI.

Once again, I call bullshit on this story unless the guy had stuck something in the gas tube to begin with, but then a shot of lube wouldn't fix that.
I'm not gonna argue about it. I just hope one day when you are at the range it happens to you, so in the back of your head you can think to yourself, fuck...it can happen.

$1000 says it never does.

maybe
call me, maybe?
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:11 am

Braxton wrote:Just from looking at it. I would think that its a one off that only fits on there lowers. Might call them and ask.
It will be forever before I could even get one. they are a pre-order now, and for RRA to sell the lower separate they would have to satisfy all the full weapon orders first. But maybe I will try to get a hold of someone about it. I will post if I get through.
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Re: Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Unorthodox » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:31 am

zombie_kibble wrote:Thus, making the ZS lower I have under the 7.62x39
In the first 7.62x 39 ar I built put a different firing pin in and dropped malfunctions to about 1 in 100
Hard primers=broke gun...no
No, what all of that is telling me is you assembled a lower and you're getting light primer strikes. So you put in a different firing pin to bandaid the problem. Now you have (or have experienced?) a mythical malfunction that only occurs if you bugger it up yourself or....you bugger it up yourself.

What ALL of this is telling me is you need to leave the 'firearm assembly' to people who know how to fit a round peg into the circle hole.

PS: like others have said...1 malfunction in 100 is the absolute farthest from acceptable. A BCM built rifle went 6,000 rounds before experiencing its first malfunction. Worn parts far out of spec caused more malfunctions at 13k rounds. Worn part was replaced. Bolt lugs broke at 16k, BCG was replaced. What all of THAT tells me is a properly assembled AR with scheduled parts replacement can run thousands of rounds with minimal cleaning and generous amounts of lube.

Quite the far cry from 1 in 100
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Re: Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:02 am

Unorthodox wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote:Thus, making the ZS lower I have under the 7.62x39
In the first 7.62x 39 ar I built put a different firing pin in and dropped malfunctions to about 1 in 100
Hard primers=broke gun...no
No, what all of that is telling me is you assembled a lower and you're getting light primer strikes. So you put in a different firing pin to bandaid the problem. Now you have (or have experienced?) a mythical malfunction that only occurs if you bugger it up yourself or....you bugger it up yourself.

What ALL of this is telling me is you need to leave the 'firearm assembly' to people who know how to fit a round peg into the circle hole.

PS: like others have said...1 malfunction in 100 is the absolute farthest from acceptable. A
BCM built rifle went 6,000 rounds before experiencing its first malfunction. Worn parts far out of spec caused more malfunctions at 13k rounds. Worn part was replaced. Bolt lugs broke at 16k, BCG was replaced. What all of THAT tells me is a properly assembled AR with scheduled parts replacement can run thousands of rounds with minimal cleaning and generous amounts of lube.

Quite the far cry from 1 in 100
What kind of ammo were they running?
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by NachoGummyBear » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:55 am

zombie_kibble wrote: Image

At the VERY least, it looks tacti-cool as hell!!!
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by praharin » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:58 am

Follow the included link. If it doesn't contain the information you seek it does not include the information you seek, it DOES include Pat Rogers e mail address. Since it was his rifle he probably knows.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Czechnology » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:12 am

The ad says the upper is also proprietary. So, few if any parts from a normal AR15 would work in this gun.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:40 am

praharin wrote:Follow the included link. If it doesn't contain the information you seek it does not include the information you seek, it DOES include Pat Rogers e mail address. Since it was his rifle he probably knows.
The article was a good read...I am fully aware that Bravo is a good company...I have less than half the price of a Bravo gun into mine. while it may not be flawless if something breaks i will replace it. I don't rely on my gun to save my life, I shoot the cheapest shit ammo I can buy, and if i have a malf, the piece of paper im shooting at dont care.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:42 am

Czechnology wrote:The ad says the upper is also proprietary. So, few if any parts from a normal AR15 would work in this gun.
yeah i see that know...well with that being said you wants to donate to my RRA LAR-47 fund :D
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:46 am

zombie_kibble wrote:
praharin wrote:Follow the included link. If it doesn't contain the information you seek it does not include the information you seek, it DOES include Pat Rogers e mail address. Since it was his rifle he probably knows.
The article was a good read...I am fully aware that Bravo is a good company...I have less than half the price of a Bravo gun into mine. while it may not be flawless if something breaks i will replace it. I don't rely on my gun to save my life, I shoot the cheapest shit ammo I can buy, and if i have a malf, the piece of paper im shooting at dont care.
Then you should probably trying to avoiding arguing about quality rifles with people who do/did rely on them to save lives.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by praharin » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:49 am

zombie_kibble wrote:
praharin wrote:Follow the included link. If it doesn't contain the information you seek it does not include the information you seek, it DOES include Pat Rogers e mail address. Since it was his rifle he probably knows.
The article was a good read...I am fully aware that Bravo is a good company...I have less than half the price of a Bravo gun into mine. while it may not be flawless if something breaks i will replace it. I don't rely on my gun to save my life, I shoot the cheapest shit ammo I can buy, and if i have a malf, the piece of paper im shooting at dont care.
Cool beans. I'm not sure what that has to do with your question though. Just trying to help.

Although EAG and BCM have a business relationship, but they are not related companies.
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by zombie_kibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:55 am

praharin wrote:
zombie_kibble wrote:
praharin wrote:Follow the included link. If it doesn't contain the information you seek it does not include the information you seek, it DOES include Pat Rogers e mail address. Since it was his rifle he probably knows.
The article was a good read...I am fully aware that Bravo is a good company...I have less than half the price of a Bravo gun into mine. while it may not be flawless if something breaks i will replace it. I don't rely on my gun to save my life, I shoot the cheapest shit ammo I can buy, and if i have a malf, the piece of paper im shooting at dont care.
Cool beans. I'm not sure what that has to do with your question though. Just trying to help.

Although EAG and BCM have a business relationship, but they are not related companies.
It does kinda read like an ad but I dont doubt anything it said. I wish I had one truth be told.

all this talking about my gun makes me want to tear it down just to make sure nothing is wrong. You son of a bitches got me second guessing myself :D
What ALL of this is telling me is you need to leave the 'firearm assembly' to people who know how to fit a round peg into the circle hole.
^^^^fuck you, I got a baby on the way I know all about round pegs in circle holes
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Re: ar or ak...?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:22 am

TDW586 wrote: You happen to be talking to a group of pretty experienced guys. Three Marine combat veterans, at least three Army unless I missed one, and more importantly, we're all guys who have put thousands upon thousands of rounds downrange with AR type rifles.
The Air Force guy always gets forgot. I haz sadz pandaz. :ohdear: :lol:

http://firearmsdesigner.com/?p=234" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some info on the pressure curve in the barrel. It could be hypothesized the pressures in the gas tube are quite similar.
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