Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Dogan » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:38 am

I've honestly given it more thought, and if we're really planning for Zpaw:
9mm (have reloading equipment for and am learning how to use)
.223 (Note the reloading)
.270 (OR, still on the fence, .308.)

For one simple reason: .22 isn't reloadable. Not realistica... wait. Google brings me here: http://22lrreloader.com/shop/ Anyone used these?

But back to the .223. With a blunter, or softer bullet design than the ball or HP I see most often in .223, what could you do with a .22 rifle that you couldn't do with a subsonic .223 bolt action?
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:35 am

Dogan wrote:I've honestly given it more thought, and if we're really planning for Zpaw:
9mm (have reloading equipment for and am learning how to use)
.223 (Note the reloading)
.270 (OR, still on the fence, .308.)

For one simple reason: .22 isn't reloadable. Not realistica... wait. Google brings me here: http://22lrreloader.com/shop/ Anyone used these?

But back to the .223. With a blunter, or softer bullet design than the ball or HP I see most often in .223, what could you do with a .22 rifle that you couldn't do with a subsonic .223 bolt action?
I'm intrigued by reload able .22, but I'm confused about primer ... without watching the videos, it seems to give you an eye dropper for applying primer, but do they give you a recipe to make your own explosive liquid? Seems dangerous and inconsistent.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:53 am

Dogan wrote:I've honestly given it more thought, and if we're really planning for Zpaw:
9mm (have reloading equipment for and am learning how to use)
.223 (Note the reloading)
.270 (OR, still on the fence, .308.)

For one simple reason: .22 isn't reloadable. Not realistica... wait. Google brings me here: http://22lrreloader.com/shop/ Anyone used these?

But back to the .223. With a blunter, or softer bullet design than the ball or HP I see most often in .223, what could you do with a .22 rifle that you couldn't do with a subsonic .223 bolt action?
Subsonic .223 doesn't stabilize, and requires manual cycling. OTOH, .22 LR is light as hell, will cycle several semi-autos for rapid follow-up or double-taps, and is stable enough for use with a can.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Dogan » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:16 pm

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:19 pm

Airguns, man.

Besides, if you aren't using .22 as a conversion or trainer, do you really need a bazillion rounds? At that point, any of the varmint calibers would do.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:01 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Airguns, man.

Besides, if you aren't using .22 as a conversion or trainer, do you really need a bazillion rounds? At that point, any of the varmint calibers would do.
If you aren't using a .22 as a conversion or trainer, why not? In a world where I have chosen three centre fire platforms, rely on those platforms for my life, but don't likely need to shoot often, use of a conversion or analogue of my main firearms would really go a long way.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:34 pm

BullOnParade wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Airguns, man.

Besides, if you aren't using .22 as a conversion or trainer, do you really need a bazillion rounds? At that point, any of the varmint calibers would do.
If you aren't using a .22 as a conversion or trainer, why not? In a world where I have chosen three centre fire platforms, rely on those platforms for my life, but don't likely need to shoot often, use of a conversion or analogue of my main firearms would really go a long way.
I think we're talking past each other. IMO, .22LR's main use is as a conversion or trainer for a larger caliber, and secondly as a game-getter. If I were eliminating .22 from being bulk-stocked because it were hard to find and considering handloading iffy .223 subscribe instead, that takes the round count way down, which means one no longer needs to stock buttloads of ammo. An airgun can do the game-getting, or just lighter 5.56 (Wolf should stay together and not tear up the critter too bad) or 12ga.

What I don't get is going .308 and 5.56. There's a lot of overlap between the two. If I was going to go to three calibers I'd rathr go down to one centerfire rifle than give up .22
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by MacAttack » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:59 pm

In a way this is not just a question of what calibers you can reduce yourself to but what fire arms your willing to cut your self back to.

And as expected some people just can't seem to let a few of those guns go, even in a fantasy thought experiment.

I have it cut down to a hand gun and a rifle. But not three calibers.
Still looking for an upper AR receiver that can fire .308 in a bolt action manner that is back pack small and light.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Boom40mm » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:48 pm

-5.56/.223 for it's abundance and familiarity. Once I purchase a Tavor that will be two weapons I have chambered in it. (Wife would inherit my rock river AR)
-9mm I have a 1911 but since I purchased the wife a compact XDM in 9mm I don't know why I'm keeping the 1911 around! Yeah 900'ish fps ashtrays are cool, but 19 rounds in an extended mag? can't argue against that. (So as soon as I find a buyer for my springfield operator I will be switching to a 9mm XDM as well)

And perhaps .22 once our son is old enough for a cricket.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Waywatcher » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:21 pm

I need to update mine; I no longer forty smith and wesson. I verbified a caliber there.

.38 Special
5.56 NATO
.270 Winchester

The more I handgun, the less I want to use one in defense. A carbine is so much better--I have a friend who is a USPSA pistol whiz and I can easily outshoot him with a carbine on casual stages. And on top of that each hit with the carbine is more powerful.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by MaconCJ7 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:35 pm

MacAttack wrote:Still looking for an upper AR receiver that can fire .308 in a bolt action manner that is back pack small and light.
Regular .308 upper with the gas port plugged.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by jor-el » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:44 pm

Waywatcher wrote:I need to update mine; I no longer forty smith and wesson. I verbified a caliber there.

.38 Special
5.56 NATO
.270 Winchester

The more I handgun, the less I want to use one in defense. A carbine is so much better--I have a friend who is a USPSA pistol whiz and I can easily outshoot him with a carbine on casual stages. And on top of that each hit with the carbine is more powerful.

That's true, but the point is to maintain some flexibility in a dynamic incident. Regardless of action choice or caliber a rifle/carbine will eventually go down either because it ran empty or it jammed. The BUG, usually a pistol, is the most likely spare arm you'd have with you should that happen. Train for transitions.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by MacAttack » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:01 pm

MaconCJ7 wrote:
MacAttack wrote:Still looking for an upper AR receiver that can fire .308 in a bolt action manner that is back pack small and light.
Regular .308 upper with the gas port plugged.


Would that pin to a standard AR 15 lower?

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by MaconCJ7 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:25 pm

Nope. I brain farted with my thought process. But, you can put on one of these with a choice of four better dedicated long range calibers.

.50 BMG
.416 Barrett
.338 Laupa
.408 CheyTac
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by aus.templar » Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:20 am

Permit is on the way for my first 9mm... therefore, mine is changing to:

.22LR
.223
9mm
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by delarey » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Thinking about the area around me... I'd be hard pressed to shoot at ranges beyond what a. 223 can do. I've always loved. 22lr, but to be honest, I find myself using 410 more around the farm now. Limiting myself to only 3? I'd have to say 9mm,. 223 and 410.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by tedbeau » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:55 pm

Interesting about going with the 410. It does reduce the biggest complaint everyone seems to have about shotguns being the weight per round factor. A 410 would still be useful for hunting small game and while not legal in all states, it could be used to take game up to deer size, just requiring a little more care in distance and shot placement.

I suppose there are three (at least) ways to look at caliber selection.

1. Pick a common caliber that would be easy to find when ammo is still available. (9mm, 223, 30-30, 30-06)
2. Pick an obscure caliber that no one else is using up so you can use what they can't.
3. Stock guns in the most calibers you can afford so you have something to shoot what ever you find available.

I know the true prepper's here are going to point out that the only true option is to pick your caliber and stock it deep so you have enough to last past your life time.

I have 6 calibers, but only really stock heavy in three.

7.62X39
40 S&W
22lr

I also have
38 special
30-30
12 ga.

I really should consider getting more 30-30 and 12 ga. The 30-30 offers an advantage in that my AK does not have a scope. For longer range engagements the 30-30 offers a little advantage. In a perfect world I would replace it with something with even more range/power, maybe .338 lapua if I could also afford to get lots of ammo.

I do see an advantage to having some 12 gauge in slugs, 000 buck, and bird shot for hunting purposes. Since my 12 gauge is a single shot I don't see it being used for defense against hordes of zombies though

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Mikeyboy » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:47 pm

tedbeau wrote:Interesting about going with the 410. It does reduce the biggest complaint everyone seems to have about shotguns being the weight per round factor. A 410 would still be useful for hunting small game and while not legal in all states, it could be used to take game up to deer size, just requiring a little more care in distance and shot placement.

I suppose there are three (at least) ways to look at caliber selection.

1. Pick a common caliber that would be easy to find when ammo is still available. (9mm, 223, 30-30, 30-06)
2. Pick an obscure caliber that no one else is using up so you can use what they can't.
3. Stock guns in the most calibers you can afford so you have something to shoot what ever you find available.

I know the true prepper's here are going to point out that the only true option is to pick your caliber and stock it deep so you have enough to last past your life time.

I have 6 calibers, but only really stock heavy in three.

7.62X39
40 S&W
22lr

I also have
38 special
30-30
12 ga.

I really should consider getting more 30-30 and 12 ga. The 30-30 offers an advantage in that my AK does not have a scope. For longer range engagements the 30-30 offers a little advantage. In a perfect world I would replace it with something with even more range/power, maybe .338 lapua if I could also afford to get lots of ammo.

I do see an advantage to having some 12 gauge in slugs, 000 buck, and bird shot for hunting purposes. Since my 12 gauge is a single shot I don't see it being used for defense against hordes of zombies though
Just in the spirit of consolidation. We kind of went around the 30-30 vs. 7.62x39 vs. .300 BLK talk on another thread, and .30-30 has only a slight ballistic advantage over 7.62x39. While I love lever guns to death, have you ever considered getting a 7.62x39 bolt gun. This way you will have something that you can mount a scope on and have something that is pretty much as accurate and as powerful as a 30-30 lever gun.

I am kind of in the same boat, I want one caliber that I can use to hunt dear within 200 yards with a manually operated rifle, yet something I can also use in a semi auto hi capacity self defense/SHTF rifle. With 7.62x39 you can go with a Zastava M85 or CZ-527 for a bolt gun and a SKS/AK-47/Ruger Mini-30 for a semi auto SD rifle. With .300blk you can get a Ruger Ranch American bolt gun, and a .300blk AR-15. Even if you hunt with a .243 bolt gun, there are .243 AR-15.

But here is the kicker..limiting your choices to 3 caliber will pigeon hole you.

Look at .22lr, what was once seems as super cheap and almost commonplace is now a rare find, and getting more expensive to shoot.

What was once rare may soon be commonplace, what was once a commonplace could become an oddball hard to find expensive caliber.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by delarey » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:05 am

Have to say a little Cz in 7.62*39 doesn't sound half bad!
I've tried diversifying and it nearly bankrupted me :)
I still have 12ga guns, because they are so stupid cheap now. Still only stocking 9mm, 5.56/ 223 and 410. I've read of some using 410 3" slugs to take deer. It can do it, just be sure of your shot.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:49 pm

delarey wrote:Have to say a little Cz in 7.62*39 doesn't sound half bad!
I've tried diversifying and it nearly bankrupted me :)
I still have 12ga guns, because they are so stupid cheap now. Still only stocking 9mm, 5.56/ 223 and 410. I've read of some using 410 3" slugs to take deer. It can do it, just be sure of your shot.
You have a 12ga, why bother trying to take deer with a .410 slug. Like you said It can be done but only at under 60 yards, and with a 1/4 ounce rifled slugs out of a 410 rifled slug gun. Hunting with .410 1/5 ounce foster slugs out of a smooth bore .410 shotgun is a real sketchy proposition.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by 00dlez » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:44 pm

Easy choice for me atm, as I only own 4 guns

.308 / 9mm / .22lr - I also have a single shot 16 gauge... I needn't explain why it didn't make the list.

My HD plans for the foreseeable don't really include long arms. The house is very small, cramped, dry-wall laden... It's just not rifle territory. For my current budget, the G17 and 69 rounds of HD 9mm are just fine.

The .308 is a 10-round bolt action - not a battle rifle. But if (alright alright... probably "when") I go that route, I don't think that I will shy away for sticking to that caliber, despite the cost. Is the price per round difference significant? Yup. But I'll probably stack only about 200-300 HD quality rounds either way as a cache and the real $ price difference in that regard isn't so bad.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by medicusterrae » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:04 pm

Nice thread. Fairly comprehensive, good comments, and over quite a period of time. I too have put quite a bit of thought into this topic. Here is what I have considered for survival and personal protection. For survival, my thought is that small caliber rifles will best meet this need due to the compact size of both the gun and the ammunition. A fifty-round box of .22 caliber long rifle ammunition is not much larger than a pack of chewing gum. The primary advantage of small caliber weapons for survival is in hunting small game and as medium range (<100 yards) personal protection. In the past, .22 caliber ammunition has been readily available and is relatively inexpensive compared to larger caliber ammunition. In a SHTF situation, we will find it being traded for goods and services because I am sure that there is a giant stockpile in basements across America. I have three .22 rifles. A large caliber rifle is also in my inventory for use in hunting large game and for long range personal protection. I decided on a 7.62x54R because you can buy truck loads of ammo relatively cheap. I have rounded out my collection with a 12 gauge shotgun. Again, very common, reasonably priced ammunition, and they are good for bird hunting, small game, and close range personal protection. I don't care much for handguns, and for me they don’t fill any of these niches as well as long guns, but they are more concealable. I pick up a box or two of these calibers whenever I find them on sale. I vacuum pack them, and store them away in cool, dry places for future use or trade.

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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:07 am

I could have sworn I posted in this thread... oh well.

My choices, considering what I have and how I plan on using them:

1. .30-06 (150gr-200gr, FMJ, SP, AP, all of the above)
2. 12 gauge (from birdshot to slugs)
3. 9mm (bulk FMJs to NATO spec to +P+ HP screamers)


I don't plan on trading or setting up an arms market, running around in PAW combat with a mall ninja militia, running and gunning, or anything crazy. I just need some hunting and defense loads.

And if we aren't talking about prepping, then .30-06 can hunt anthing in North America, 12 gauge can be used for HD and most game, and 9mm is good for plinking at the range and HD.
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Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by medicusterrae » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:09 am

Hey Jeeper, I don't plan on setting up in the arms market either. I try to keep my life as simple as possible, keep my head down, and own tools that serve multiple purposes. My inventory of ammo is for personal use and includes a modest supply for the three calibers of guns that I own and use for hunting. Then I have it if I need it for defense as well. I read Dmitry Orlov's book "Reinventing Collapse" a number of years ago. He describes the collapse of the Soviet Union in the 90's and talks about how currency became worthless. Alcohol quickly became the currency on which their economy ran for a number of years. In my preparation for that unexpected disaster, economic or otherwise, I consider his experience with having something that others may want and would be willing to trade what they have for it.

I collect and save garden seed too.

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