Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

The place to discuss adding firearms to your emergency preparedness plans.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

NWDub
* *
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NWDub » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Just because you *can* do it in a perfect situation does not mean you will be able to do it UNDER PRESSURE and from a CLOSE DISTANCE.

I wouldn't want to get closer than I have to if I'm taking down medium/large game and it has the possibility of being dangerous (Hogs, moose, bear, etc)

If I was in a SHTF scenario I wouldn't rely on small game to keep me alive, especially if everyone else is hungry too. Small game will disappear quickly.

I'm not saying everyone needs a 338 lapua magnum but something larger than 9mm (which is the largest bullet diameter of that group) is a good idea. a 223 is still a 22 bullet, just with more powder behind it.

If a bear/hog/zombie comes in my camp, I would hate to rely on small caliber handgun rounds. Also more shots will attract more attention than one loud shot.

I'd rather take the animal in one clean shot, not have to chase it and not have to worry about it coming after me if it doesn't die instantly.

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:52 pm

NWDub wrote:Just because you *can* do it in a perfect situation does not mean you will be able to do it UNDER PRESSURE and from a CLOSE DISTANCE.

I wouldn't want to get closer than I have to if I'm taking down medium/large game and it has the possibility of being dangerous (Hogs, moose, bear, etc)

If I was in a SHTF scenario I wouldn't rely on small game to keep me alive, especially if everyone else is hungry too. Small game will disappear quickly.

I'm not saying everyone needs a 338 lapua magnum but something larger than 9mm (which is the largest bullet diameter of that group) is a good idea. a 223 is still a 22 bullet, just with more powder behind it.

If a bear/hog/zombie comes in my camp, I would hate to rely on small caliber handgun rounds. Also more shots will attract more attention than one loud shot.

I'd rather take the animal in one clean shot, not have to chase it and not have to worry about it coming after me if it doesn't die instantly.
.223 is a .22 bullet the same way .408 Cheytac is just a .40 cal bullet. Different projectiles entirely at 3x the speed and as much as 2x the weight.

Pretty sure Crypto can do it under pressure. Top Shot at MilCopp and all.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

NWDub
* *
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NWDub » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:10 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
NWDub wrote:Just because you *can* do it in a perfect situation does not mean you will be able to do it UNDER PRESSURE and from a CLOSE DISTANCE.

I wouldn't want to get closer than I have to if I'm taking down medium/large game and it has the possibility of being dangerous (Hogs, moose, bear, etc)

If I was in a SHTF scenario I wouldn't rely on small game to keep me alive, especially if everyone else is hungry too. Small game will disappear quickly.

I'm not saying everyone needs a 338 lapua magnum but something larger than 9mm (which is the largest bullet diameter of that group) is a good idea. a 223 is still a 22 bullet, just with more powder behind it.

If a bear/hog/zombie comes in my camp, I would hate to rely on small caliber handgun rounds. Also more shots will attract more attention than one loud shot.

I'd rather take the animal in one clean shot, not have to chase it and not have to worry about it coming after me if it doesn't die instantly.
.223 is a .22 bullet the same way .408 Cheytac is just a .40 cal bullet. Different projectiles entirely at 3x the speed and as much as 2x the weight.

Pretty sure Crypto can do it under pressure. Top Shot at MilCopp and all.
I'm not saying some people can't do it, I'm saying for the majority of people it's not true.

and how many grains is a standard AR15 round?

User avatar
NamelessStain
* * * * *
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:08 am
Location: Coastal SC

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NamelessStain » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:02 am

NWDub wrote:
and how many grains is a standard AR15 round?
I have 55g and 68g in my stocks.
jnathan wrote:Since we lost some posts due to some database work I'll just put this here for posterity.
Q wrote:Buckle up

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by crypto » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:33 am

Eh, I gave my caliber recommendations based on where I live. Whitetail get pretty big around here, but they still drop if you take a careful shot with bonded 5.56. Those of you who have been to MO know our forests are dense and brambly. In all my years of hunting, I've never gotten more than a 100m shot on a deer. You just can't see farther than that, even from a tree stand.

If I lived somewhere way out west where I thought I'd be shooting at elk across valleys, I might pick something larger like .308 or .30-06, but in my AO, I'm confident 5.56 will get the job done for anything that needs to die.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
doc66
* * * * *
Posts: 5711
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:56 am
Location: Back home in Tennessee
Contact:

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by doc66 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:23 pm

NWDub wrote:and how many grains is a standard AR15 round?
Let's define standard. LOL

Are we talking .mil or hunting?

You can go from 55 grain all the way up to 77 grains in the AR15, and there are 80 and 82 grain bullets for bolt actions.

68 grain might be considered standard right now.....
Image
http://www.milcopptactical.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by crypto » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:33 pm

LOL theres also 40 and 44gr varmint grenades. So lets call it 40-82gr for the whole gamut, with 55-78gr being most common for defensive applications.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

NWDub
* *
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NWDub » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:19 am

doc66 wrote:
NWDub wrote:and how many grains is a standard AR15 round?
Let's define standard. LOL

Are we talking .mil or hunting?

You can go from 55 grain all the way up to 77 grains in the AR15, and there are 80 and 82 grain bullets for bolt actions.

68 grain might be considered standard right now.....
perfect

So most people are not shooting more than 75gr bullets, right?

75 grains at high velocity is great, I mean, that'll stop a lot of things. But I can't count on a round that small to cause sufficient damage in a large animal. I like to try for hydrostatic shock. It is the best case scenario and if even your best can't do that, I don't think it's worth making it your largest caliber gun.

the 5-7 is an amazingly accurate gun with no recoil but people don't like it because the bullet weight is so damn small, even though it flies out of the gun at 2000fps+

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:34 am

NWDub wrote: I like to try for hydrostatic shock.
You have just about talked yourself out of credibility with that line.

Ignoring that line, there is nothing magic about a 200lb deer that makes it harder to kill then a 200lb man. Further, you don't seem familiar enough with 5.56, terminal ballistics, or the needs/abilities of the poster to be attempting to critique caliber choice.
NWDub wrote: the 5-7 is an amazingly accurate gun with no recoil but people don't like it because the bullet weight is so damn small, even though it flies out of the gun at 2000fps+
Appeal to popularity aside, people don't like the 5.7 because the ammo is expensive and impractical to reload, the pistol is large, the magazines prone to a short lifespan (feed lips cracking/warping, no metal liner) the pistols cost as much as an AR and the trigger ain't great, the aftermarket is small, there's only two rifles and one pistol (I guess you could count Masterpiece Arms, but I've yet to see one in the wild) in the caliber which means availability is for shit and nobody is qualified to 'smith them except the factory, and you pretty much have to buy the ammo online. Comparing 5.7 to 5.56 is dishonest, as you're comparing a round developed and tweaked as a main service round for service rifles to a round developed for PDWs and trying to draw an analogue just because both are light and fast, even they have about as much in common as 7.62x51 and 7.62x25mm.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

Das Sheep
* * * *
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Das Sheep » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:59 am

NWDub wrote: 75 grains at high velocity is great, I mean, that'll stop a lot of things. But I can't count on a round that small to cause sufficient damage in a large animal. I like to try for hydrostatic shock. It is the best case scenario and if even your best can't do that, I don't think it's worth making it your largest caliber gun.
Here is some 62gr .223 ammo at my local walmart for hunting hogs:

Image

You probably want to call Remington and tell them that if people use their ammo to hunt hogs with they will be horribly mauled by hogs who will chortle at the 62gr's meager attempt to penetrate their 'large animal' shields and inflict anything more than superficial wounds. They will probably thank you for saving them from countless lawsuits and make give you a cape for being their personal hero.

User avatar
91Eunozs
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:16 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: All of them!
Location: Hill Country, Texas

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by 91Eunozs » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:02 am

^^

:lol:

We've killed pigs down here with everything from .22LR on trapped animals to 55gr .223 to that 62gr Hog Hammer in the pic above (very frickin' effective btw) to surplus 5.56 in both 55 and 62 gr, and even some 75 TAP and 77 gr PD rounds. Plus the odd collection of .308, 30-06, etc.

Shot placement is everything with the lighter bullets but there's nothing magical about one round over another.
Molon Latte...come & take our coffee order
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:... It's fun to play pretend, but this is the internet, and it's time to be serious.
zengunfighter wrote:... you don't want to blow a tranny in the middle of a pursuit...
woodsghost wrote:... A defensive gun without training is basically a talisman. It might ward off evil, but I wouldn't count on it.

NWDub
* *
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NWDub » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:57 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
NWDub wrote: I like to try for hydrostatic shock.
You have just about talked yourself out of credibility with that line.

Ignoring that line, there is nothing magic about a 200lb deer that makes it harder to kill then a 200lb man. Further, you don't seem familiar enough with 5.56, terminal ballistics, or the needs/abilities of the poster to be attempting to critique caliber choice.
NWDub wrote: the 5-7 is an amazingly accurate gun with no recoil but people don't like it because the bullet weight is so damn small, even though it flies out of the gun at 2000fps+
Appeal to popularity aside, people don't like the 5.7 because the ammo is expensive and impractical to reload, the pistol is large, the magazines prone to a short lifespan (feed lips cracking/warping, no metal liner) the pistols cost as much as an AR and the trigger ain't great, the aftermarket is small, there's only two rifles and one pistol (I guess you could count Masterpiece Arms, but I've yet to see one in the wild) in the caliber which means availability is for shit and nobody is qualified to 'smith them except the factory, and you pretty much have to buy the ammo online. Comparing 5.7 to 5.56 is dishonest, as you're comparing a round developed and tweaked as a main service round for service rifles to a round developed for PDWs and trying to draw an analogue just because both are light and fast, even they have about as much in common as 7.62x51 and 7.62x25mm.
are you saying hydrostatic shock doesn't exist? because it does in 2 legged creatures.

1911s jam a lot but people still love them for the large bullet diameter.
Last edited by NWDub on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NWDub
* *
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NWDub » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:58 pm

Das Sheep wrote:
NWDub wrote: 75 grains at high velocity is great, I mean, that'll stop a lot of things. But I can't count on a round that small to cause sufficient damage in a large animal. I like to try for hydrostatic shock. It is the best case scenario and if even your best can't do that, I don't think it's worth making it your largest caliber gun.
Here is some 62gr .223 ammo at my local walmart for hunting hogs:

Image

You probably want to call Remington and tell them that if people use their ammo to hunt hogs with they will be horribly mauled by hogs who will chortle at the 62gr's meager attempt to penetrate their 'large animal' shields and inflict anything more than superficial wounds. They will probably thank you for saving them from countless lawsuits and make give you a cape for being their personal hero.
Yeah, I can use a framing hammer to drive rebar into the ground but if I've got the choice, I'll use the sledge.

also: it's funny they need a special bullet just for hogs.. I would hate to run out of *hog bullets* in a SHTF scenario.... lol

edit: a hog is not large game. A hog is small/medium dangerous game.
Last edited by NWDub on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

NWDub
* *
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by NWDub » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:01 pm

91Eunozs wrote:^^

:lol:

We've killed pigs down here with everything from .22LR on trapped animals to 55gr .223 to that 62gr Hog Hammer in the pic above (very frickin' effective btw) to surplus 5.56 in both 55 and 62 gr, and even some 75 TAP and 77 gr PD rounds. Plus the odd collection of .308, 30-06, etc.

Shot placement is everything with the lighter bullets but there's nothing magical about one round over another.


Again, I thought this was about 3 calibers for a SHTF scenario. Ok, leaving hogs out of it, then I'm talking about any other medium/large game that can be dangerous (bears, elk, moose, etc)

5.56 is a very common caliber, I'd be surprised if someone didn't want to cash in by making loads for every type of game if it's a good idea or not. It's just funny that it takes a special round and that standard rounds are axiomatically not good enough for killing hogs, else they wouldn't make them.

User avatar
strm_trpr
* *
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:54 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland, Evil Dead, Dawn of the dead
Location: Front Range, Colorado
Contact:

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by strm_trpr » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:42 am

Those three calibers are pretty good choices for small game, medium game and self defense. Most people in a PAW will not encouter many large game as they will be hunted out quicly because they are large and easy pickings at first and after that they will be in such remote areas that they may be hard to find. Most people in the world live in urban or sub-urban areas and therefore most game will be small to medium. even an ocasional white tail can be taken from a .223 and it is legal in some areas.
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me." ~Ayn Rand~

User avatar
Mikeyboy
* * * * *
Posts: 2265
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Mikeyboy » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:19 pm

NWDub wrote:
91Eunozs wrote:^^

:lol:

We've killed pigs down here with everything from .22LR on trapped animals to 55gr .223 to that 62gr Hog Hammer in the pic above (very frickin' effective btw) to surplus 5.56 in both 55 and 62 gr, and even some 75 TAP and 77 gr PD rounds. Plus the odd collection of .308, 30-06, etc.

Shot placement is everything with the lighter bullets but there's nothing magical about one round over another.


Again, I thought this was about 3 calibers for a SHTF scenario. Ok, leaving hogs out of it, then I'm talking about any other medium/large game that can be dangerous (bears, elk, moose, etc)

5.56 is a very common caliber, I'd be surprised if someone didn't want to cash in by making loads for every type of game if it's a good idea or not. It's just funny that it takes a special round and that standard rounds are axiomatically not good enough for killing hogs, else they wouldn't make them.
What are you asking for, are you HUNTING dangerous game, or are you preventing an attack. As I said before while not "ideal" 5.56 out of a semi auto rifle will stop an attack by a dangerous animal and while not ideal it will kill large animals if you need to eat it. As mentioned before plenty of cops have taken down bears, lions, moose and other nasty beast with an AR rifle and even their .40 and 9mm service pistols. Even elephant poachers use M16 rifles.

Would I rather have a M1A in .308 over a AR shooting .223, if the world is taken over by evil moose, bears, and lions? Yes, but what are the freaking odds of that. The odds of you even seeing a deer, let alone a bear or a moose, post SHTF is going to be low. That .22lr rifle will probably be putting more meat in the pot.

User avatar
Browning 35
BANNED
Posts: 4698
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead (2004).
28 Days Later.
Planet Terror.
Dawn of the Dead (1978).
Night of the Living Dead (1968)
Omega Man
Location: Texas

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:22 pm

Ever consider that everyone on this page who's posted so far might be right to a certain extent?

The problem with hogs is that when they're first starting out everyone thinks they'll be running across this...

Image

...when generally they're running across this.

Image

The 5.56 will kill them all, but on the big boys (300 to 500 lbs) sometimes it doesn't anchor them all that well and it takes a few shots.

If you're trying to run them off in an attack that doesn't matter much, trying to kill them for meat it matters a bit more. There's just less room for error with smaller caliber rifles and I think that's what NWDub is trying to say.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:33 pm

Browning 35 wrote:Ever consider that everyone on this page who's posted so far might be right to a certain extent?

The problem with hogs is that when they're first starting out everyone thinks they'll be running across this...

Image

...when generally they're running across this.

Image

The 5.56 will kill them all, but on the big boys (300 to 500 lbs) sometimes it doesn't anchor them all that well and it takes a few shots.

If you're trying to run them off in an attack that doesn't matter much, trying to kill them for meat it matters a bit more. There's just less room for error with smaller caliber rifles and I think that's what NWDub is trying to say.
That's a big damn hog up top! Where was that taken?
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
Browning 35
BANNED
Posts: 4698
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:47 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead (2004).
28 Days Later.
Planet Terror.
Dawn of the Dead (1978).
Night of the Living Dead (1968)
Omega Man
Location: Texas

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:40 pm

South Georgia or Northern Florida, not sure which. It was after the pic of 'Hogzilla' made the rounds in all the hunting rags and on the net.

Just trying to point out that everyone might not be talking about the same size hog. This might be why some are giving some variation of 'Fuck...it's fine, just aim better' and some posters are saying they'd prefer something in a larger caliber if it's around.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

Caenus
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: the ones where people turn into zombies
Location: Arizonastan

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Caenus » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:08 am

Well, there is such a thing as too much gun and such a thing as not enough gun. I'd rather have too much gun.

And to the poster that said that 1911's jam a lot...there are a lot of makes and models of 1911's. Even my humble Springfield has not jammed. I spent a day in the PD gun lab on Wednesday and shot a lot of different firearms. These were all confiscated and basically shot for ballistics testing and then destroyed when they get too dirty to function or break. Sure, they had a lot of Glocks on the shelf (and a sweet Hi-Point that the slide would release on if you moved it too fast off the bench), but there were a hell of a lot of 1911's that just kept going and going.
"If guns kill people, then I can blame mispelled words on my pencil." - Larry the Cable Guy

Check out my Zombie Novels!; Phoenix Rising; ...and the sequel: Through the Ashes

Das Sheep
* * * *
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Das Sheep » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:23 am

Apolacicola (I am spelling this wrong) has some really big hogs where the forest boarders the farm land. I could see that big dude being hunted and killed near there.

There is a big connected mess of swampy (at least in the summer time swampy) forests that flows from south Georgia down to lake city in Florida that could be home to lots of those monsters.

The second picture looks like a couple of sows/boars and a bunch of their progeny that got sent to bacon heaven. Often when you encounter hogs its a few big ones with TONS of little ones running everywhere.

ArmchairRacer
* * *
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 4:56 pm
Location: Utah

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by ArmchairRacer » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:07 pm

http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-15 ... ock-SP-AW/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hornady makes a .308 load specifically for whitetail, does this mean that other .308 SP bullets won't kill a deer? The fact that Remington makes a 5.56 specifically for hog hunting proves absolutely nothing.

User avatar
MacAttack
* * * * *
Posts: 2992
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:11 am

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by MacAttack » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:41 am

Dang now I have to get rid of all my ammo in every caliber and just go with Zombie stuff from now on.


I can't take the chance my .223 will hit a Zombie in the head and not put it down.

User avatar
Manimal2878
* * *
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:00 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Dawn of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead Remake, Shaun of the Dead,
Location: Tampa Bay, FL

Re: Limiting your Cache to Three Calibers...

Post by Manimal2878 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:14 am

NWDub wrote: It's just funny that it takes a special round and that standard rounds are axiomatically not good enough for killing hogs
1. There is no standard cartridge and bullet design for a specific caliber. Their may be a standard cartridge and bullet design for a specific purpose.
2. Changing the bullet design within the same caliber can cause bullets of the same caliber to act radically different.
3. A "hog" cartridge would be designed to maximize penetration and wound channel, a design with high retained bullet weight while expanding would be ideal, bonded metals or all copper design are common.
4. A "varmint" cartridge would be designed for maximum fragmentation since you don't need penetration when your target is only a couple inches thick overall and you don't need to penetrate much to damage his vitals. Probably not going to see an all copper design here, thin jackets and unbonded metals would be more likely.
5. A "self defense" cartridge would be typically be designed to meet the FBI protocol meaning at least 12 inches of penetration, but ideally not more than 18".
6. Of course there are also changes to bullet design over time as the weapon of choice changes, in a 20 inch barrel you could expect fragmentation of a 55 gr. bullet out to typical engagement distances and this worked well. As the change has been made to shorter barrels to meet other needs, like driving around in vehicles more, it's been found that same design doesn't work as well from a 14.5 inch barrel.
7. Or maybe your enemy is known for wearing body armor, so now you want a bullet with a steel core to penetrate armor.
8. etc.

Post Reply

Return to “Initial Firearms Prepping Q&A”