Moderator: ZS Global Moderators
longy wrote:
"when you are being SHOT_AT, pistols have NOTHING like the effective range of shotguns, even riot barrels with no choke. Cops these days have many times more handgun training, and the peace of mind of body armor and help available in mere minutes, compared to what it was like in the 70's and earlier. And they STILL miss the entire man with most shots, at a mere 5 yds and mostly miss the vitals at 10 FEET. A shotgun, with buckshot, is a much more reliable hitter, even at 20 yds. but you probably wont have any longarm at hand when you need a gun. On cover using heads, a pistol in average hands and without ear protection, 10 ft is MUCH too far to expect a hit."longy wrote:.22lr, 9mm and 223 are the only ones that make any sense. There's no need of any shotgun for shtf. Shotguns are just toys, for hitting birds on the wing. For everything else, they suck badly. All birds land eventually. You want a suppressor on your shtf gun, and it better be able to shoot both 223 and .22lr, cause those and 9mm are by far the most widely available rds in the US, at least. The military arsenals will be breached if shtf. There's ZERO AK ammo in those arsenals and the 308 ammo is blowoff belt fed stuff, 3 MOA is the acceptance standard for it, so it doesn't have any more effective range than the M4, due to dispersion problems. So why lug around the same weight for half as much ammo? why be stuck with no more range than the shotgun offers? Why no .22 capability? why no takedown concealment or one armed useage? Why no ability to pierce soft armor? Best have such a gun be un-known about, so that it can be put=away without fears of Big Brother. That means it has to be an 80% finished lower to start with. Why make all that noise and then have so LITTLE fighting ability when the enemy hears your shot? 12 ga shells are 10 to the lb, 60 gr subsonic .22's, BB gun quiet, are 100 rds to the lb, 223's are 35 to the lb, 308's are 18 to the lbs (150 grs) Buckshot from a riot barrel is worthless at 50 yds, at 30 yds if they are using cover, or are head-on prone with a helmet.
Way past the point of going gray man. See you on the other side ( or not 
) Nah, it was the same old troll with a new name but the same .22 conversion unit.MacAttack wrote:Somehow I feel as if I missed a great new troll.
Its coming home and finding out the wife bought your favorite ice cream but then gave it all away.
Way past the point of going gray man. See you on the other side ( or not )
Well come over and play more!MacAttack wrote:Somehow I feel as if I missed a great new troll.
Its coming home and finding out the wife bought your favorite ice cream but then gave it all away.
