Noob Gun Question Thread: 45 acp, 5.56 carbines, .22 pistols

[AmnJoker333]

For .22 pistol, I highly recommend the Rugers. A good friend of mine has a Walther P22 that was pretty finicky about ammo.

The Mini is a pretty decent choice, but I'm with the rest of the crowd on the AR. Better parts availability. That being said, several people have recommended sticking with .308. Why not get an Armalite AR-10 or the DPMS offering? (Can't recall the name at the moment). They're offered in carbine format with a flat top so you don't have to fool with scope mounts when it comes time to mount an optic.

For the .45, you really can't go wrong with the Glock 21. If you ever get the urge to turn it into a backpacking gun, you can convert it into 10mm for a little more punch (the 21 and the 20 share a frame IIRC. Swap the slide, barrel, and magazine and you're good to go.)

[bumblingbear]

OP...

You're going to just have to do your own research.

There is going to be as many opinions on this question as people posting...

and in the end yours may be different than all of them.

Seriously - get a more specific idea of what you want and then come to the forum for suggestions on setups.

[tarafore]

The "Get an AR" versus "Get a Mini" discussion is currently being beaten to death here.

There's an awesome thread under the "Firearms Knowledge Threads" heading, "The Basics of the Fighting Carbine" that really gives a LOT of information about how to set up an effective SHTF carbine.

I don't want to threadjack this thread into Mini versus AR - we already have one long thread about that - so I'll just second the Glock recommendation. Great guns, simple manual of arms, reliable and accurate right out of the box. Get night sights, spare mags, and a good holster, and you're good to go.

If you're not 100% sold on .45, you can get a killer deal on .40 caliber Glocks from Summit Gun Broker.

[Tommy Tran]

.22lr... Ruger MkII hands down(played with many a .22)

.223... AR no question, build it to learn it, and to not have to pay big money all at once... build simple and upgrade as your skill progresses...
keltec= garbage, I owned an SU-16C... the carrier/recoil rod was staked and it still self destruted the rear of the reciever right by my face, never again. They gave me a new gun but I sold that without ever firing it, no plastic guns firing a 55,000psi cartridge thanks. (I still have and EDC my P3AT(bug) so I'm def not a keltec hater)
Mini14, never met one that ran right and high cap mag availability and cost is ridiculous, plus aftermarket support is weak.

.45? why? if this is even faintly for some sort of shtf scenario then capacity is your friend along with cheaper ammo allowing you MORE practice, and cheaper stockpiling
Glock 34
CZ SP-01
M&P Pro9

Above all in importance. Get PROFESSIONAL TRAINING!!!!!!
Use video to make sure you are PRACTICING perfect.
USE your equipment as much as possible, compete, hunt, etc.

[Aikibiker]

You mentioned caliber conversions. Take a look at the Sig Sauer P250. They come in all the standard calibers and a variety of sizes. The trick is that the registered firearm portion of the weapon is a removable trigger group. That means with buying one .45 acp in fullsize, compact, or subcompact version, you can then later on get a 9mm frame, magazine, slide, and barrel (sold in kit form and shipped to your door too) and drop the trigger group right in.

Right now sig is selling them in little kits with a full sized frame and a compact frame at a decent price point. Or you can go even cheaper and just get one complete weapon and pick up different sizes and calibers as money and interest strikes you.

I have shot a couple of them and they are decently reliable and very accurate. Capacity of course depends on caliber and model. The trigger is wierd. It feels like one of those old clicky toy guns. It is long, soft, and very light. This might make shooting rapidly difficult if you use the catch the link method, but if you practice with it (like you should with any defensive firearm) it is not a hindrance.

I have AR's at home because generally I am issued an M16 or M4 on the job. Having a similar rifle when I am at home makes training time more efficient and I have faith in the platform after shooting them in everything from blizzards to sandstorms with no reliability issues. The Mini-14 is cool though. I will give you bonus points if you put on one of those A-Team folding stocks.

[mk_ultra]

Since you already have a Remington 870 . 1st thing I'd do is get a replacement barrel to make it more suitable for defense .

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=958340

Buy some slugs and buckshot . Heck , make sure you have plenty of ammo for the three serviceable guns you have now and get out there and use them .

As far as your other questions .

- Ruger or Browning .22 , I prefer Browning
- Ar15 , I built 2 last year for under $600
- Get a 9mm in your choice . cheaper to stock up and train with , get a .45 later

[bjshane1977]

While I cant speak to Kel Tec quality, CDNN has SU-16B for $460.

[shoggoth80]

I'll lend a little personal opinion. Take it as you will.

.22LR pistol. I advocate the Brownng Buckmark. My girlfriend has one of these... it has fed every kind of .22LR we have tossed at it. Looks great, comfortable to shoot, and STOOPID accurate. Hard to go wrong.

.45acp; Nothing finer in this chambering than a 1911. The gun can be its own toolbox, it is rugged, and reliable. reloading for the .45 is easy, and the 1911 is a very forgiving platform. Parts are everywhere, and can be installed in almost any other 1911 with some fitting. There are also drop in parts as well.

5.56: this is the current standard for US military infantry. If you go with an AR, many of the benefits are the same as the 1911... parts are widely available; if the parts are in spec, they should drop in. It's like Lincoln Logs for riles. It's not overly powerful, so over-penetration shouldn't be a problem in more urban environments. Can be very accurate. Don't let the "lack of firepower" bother you.... I sure as hell don't want to be shot with one. AR carbines are light, have good fire rates, easy to work on, and are fast on the sights. They are also more reliable than die hard AK advocates will lead you to believe. re-stocking ammo should be easier as any LE, or Military group will be using this. You can also walk into any ammo shop and find this round. If you know you are going to a gunfight, you bring a rifle.

Also, there are a few of really good books that center on the 1911 and AR as core tool. Check out "The Book of Two Guns" by Tiger McKee. A lot of useful info is in there. For technical reference and reviews... Gun Digest has books for both the 1911 and the AR.

[Durang's#1Fan]

Just thought I'd give my opinion on the .22, I have an H&R (R92 maybe?) that I absolutely love. They're fairly cheap, mine is very accurate and reliable. Mine has a 6" bull barrel. It's a swing open 9-shot revolver that can fire SA or DA, and it has speed loaders available. I don't have as much experience in autos but I know that as far as auto rifles go some won't cycle certain rounds, such as snake shot or CBs, with a revolver that isn't an issue (doesn't make me want a Ruger any less though ) Just thought i'd share a little info on a neat little gun that you might be interested in

[FlashDaddy]

I like the Beretta Neos .22. I have one and it has been great.

I got it this spring for $249 plus tax at Gander Mtn.
I did this post on it click here

I have taken it to the range twice, putting in about 400 rounds between me and several friends. No errors, FTF, FTE, etc. so far. I real pleasure to shoot. It comes in three barrel lengths, 4.5", 6 (mine) and 7.5.

[Vash the Stampede]

You mentioned the FN Five-seveN and the PS90.

Buddy of mine has both. They take the same ammo, the pistol holds like 20 rounds of it and the carbine holds another thirty. One magazine in each and you're packing an entire box of 5.7X28.

He loves the way they shoot, they're really mild on recoil and are easy to keep on target for multiple follow up shots.

You have a nice assortment of arms already. Don't sweat being unprepared for today. Buckle down, throw every spare dime into savings, and go get those two FN animals!

Hell, what can it hurt.... you can always swap them for a top of the line AR and 1911. Doubt ya would though.

[KentsOkay]

Thanks everyone!

I will definitely look further into an AR vs. other options. Anything in particular I should know/ be looking for? Imma start searching the threads...

Based on y'alls recomendations, I'll try to get some time behind a Ruger and Browning, then choose atween the two for my .22.
but based on what looks cooler, I'm goin' for a Ruger MKIII

SNIP Buddy of mine has both. They take the same ammo, the pistol holds like 20 rounds of it and the carbine holds another thirty. One magazine in each and you're packing an entire box of 5.7X28. SNIP

Can he not find the aftermarket 50rd mags? As tv as clearly shown, even wit hthe p90 wondergun, dropping snake-like parasite infested drama queen god wannabes and insectoid life sucking aliens can take quite a few bullets...

[Vash the Stampede]

Don't know, never asked him. The ammo moves pretty fast though, so hold on tight and place 'em right.

[Aikibiker]

If you decide to get an AR save yourself some headaches later and get yourself a flat top upper from the beginning. If it comes with a removalble carry handle that is all right, but everyone I know that got one with a fixed carry handle paid for it when they decided to mount an optic later. With a fixed carry handle you are stuck with using a gooseneck mount, mounting above the carry handle so you cannot get a cheek weld, or paying for a flattop upper receiver replacing the carry handle upper.

Speaking of optics be aware that the AR series has a buffer tube coming straight back from the lower receiver in line with the barrel as part of it's design. This means that the sights are mounted higher then on a traditional rifle with a comb stock. This also means any optic you install on an AR series rifle will need to be mounted higher then on a normal rifle. This means you need special mounts or a riser block if you are going to use a non-tactical optic or standard rings. Most of the cool guy tactical manufacturers make their mounts or optics with this fact in mind. Aimpoint however does not. Their standard mounts and twist mount are to low. They are actually ment to mount to the Aimpoint gooseneck mount on a fixed carry handle and provide an exact cowitness. Aimpoint sells a spacer to bring it's mounts to an exact co-witness height. I am not sure about a spacer block for a lower 1/3 cowitness.

[shoggoth80]

Getting trigger time between the Ruger and the Buckmark is gonna be a tough one! Both are good guns. The Ruger feels like it has a slightly more 1911-ish grip geometry, which makes it point fairly naturally by my brief handling. The top end Buckmark is a beauty of a pistol. Though I would have opted for the basic, with a fiber optic sight. The basic Buckmark has rubbery grips that feel really nice, where the top end one has really nice wood grips.

[Greyfox]

my 2 cents, which is coming in late. I would second getting the glock 21 if you are set on .45 caliber. It has a decent capacity at 13+1 and you can get a .22 conversion kit and shoot cheaply, and train with your shtf weapon (and then you have your .22) A handgun is probably your most useful self defense weapon in MOST situations IMO. Easily maneuverable through tight spaces of your house. You can conceal it when you hear an unexpected knock at the front door. It allows you to add and remove a weapon light in seconds. If you decide you want to get another .45 in the future the glock 30 will accept the g21 magazines in it as well.

I also agree with if you decide to get an AR get a flat top. You can get a detachable carry handle cheap (until you decide to, or save to get optics) or you can get flip up sights like magpul, troy etc etc etc, and be able to use them prior and with your optic in the future. Im not real familiar with CA laws but i remember seeing somewhere a magnetic mag release or something like that for CA AR's. but also just because someone made it doesn't mean its legal. you have to check your laws and see what different shops offer or talk to a custom shop and see what they offer.

[KentsOkay]

It's been 9 months since I posted this topic, boy have I learned a lot! No I didn't bump it, someone else did.

So I said screw the pistol for now. Imma buy a Mini 14,, put a folding stock on it and have lots of fun. Pistol, I'm thinking a Sig P226, followed by a GI 1911, or maybe one of the new polymer ones first, IDK. I don't like the FS2000 anymore, still love the idea of the RFB, and definitely like 5.7.

Oh yeah and that custom AR from LaRue turned into BCM upper and BCG with a LaRue lower. Why LaRue lower so expensive??

Basically I want 2 guns in each caliber I buy, one of semi-modern design and tacticool, the other classy and wood.

[Tommy Tran]

It's been 9 months since I posted this topic, boy have I learned a lot! No I didn't bump it, someone else did.

So I said screw the pistol for now. Imma buy a Mini 14,, put a folding stock on it and have lots of fun. Pistol, I'm thinking a Sig P226, followed by a GI 1911, or maybe one of the new polymer ones first, IDK. I don't like the FS2000 anymore, still love the idea of the RFB, and definitely like 5.7.

Oh yeah and that custom AR from LaRue turned into BCM upper and BCG with a LaRue lower. Why LaRue lower so expensive??

Basically I want 2 guns in each caliber I buy, one of semi-modern design and tacticool, the other classy and wood.

Buy once cry once. You will eventually go WhyTF did I get this mini14? Its not what I want. Dont buy just to have, be purposeful about your money. If something happens soon you will have a Mini14. Not very concealable or versatile.

If you want to have 2 guns in said calibers, skip the Larue lower and get a spikes or similar mil spec lower. For the price of the Larue you could probably get 2 spikes and be on your way to 2 556 rifles.

Unless you are getting a CPO Sig for less than $700 skip it too and get 2 G21's... This neck of the woods LGS have LE trade in 21's for $400-500 range... again your 2 guns

Service grade pistol and rifle with spare parts will cover 90% of your needs. 5% left for a bolt gun need and 5% for a shotgun

[shoggoth80]

Hmmmm:
"WIthin Three Years I'd Say .45 ACP pistol. There's a ton of them out there. I'm looking for indestructible reliability and high-capacity. The H&K USP and Para 14rd 1911 are front runners. Is there anything to be had for less that is comparable? Also are there any decent .45's that can be converted to 9mm/40 S&W? I know 9mmto 40S&W and back again are common-ish."

-RIA makes a 1911 wide body. RIAs are good, solid guns for the money. I had the 1911 Tactical, and ran something like 800-1000 rounds through it, no sweat. Only traded it because I wanted to explore other carbine options, and I have a semi-custom 1911 that I absolutely love. Got almost retail value on it between trades, and a sale I made of one traded weapon that I didn't feel like putting the effort into to restore to military trim. Otherwise a killer 1911 for the money. You could also pick up a .22LR conversion for the 1911, and kill two birds with one stone. 1911s can be had in a slew of calibers, including the 9mm, but this requires a different slide, firing pin, barrel (and maybe frame, unless you get a ramped barrel, then maybe you could get a 9mm barrel with the same style ramp cut for your frame, not sure though...haven't done research that far...I don't want a 1911 in 9mm ).

.22 Pistols....
I like the Buckmark by Browning. The one my girlfriend has is accurate, has some nice features, and gobbles up all kinds of .22LR, and it's not picky about standard vs. high velocity.

5.56 in something other than an AR? Hmm... could get an AK platform in that caliber, could go super expensive and get a SCAR, Sig556, or one of the Mossberg bolties. Maybe a C93 which I think is a HK clone of some kind. Or dump a bunch of money on an AUG clone...pretty sure those are 5.56. But, for the money, an AR is a good one. Quality uppers are out there around $500 or so. Could also rock a .22LR conversion for this as well, with a swap out bolt and mag kit. Been thinking about that myself, as it opens up more shooting options (many indoor ranges are pistol caliber, and shotgun only.

Even with your current choices, there is some room to expand. If you want multiples in each caliber, you can go with a common model, and have back ups, or diversify, and learn different models. There are merits to both courses of action. One is parts interchange, and same battery of arms. The other is learning multiple platforms, and stressing basic marksmanship across platforms (keeps you on your toes).

I highly recommend something in the 1911 platform though. You only need to pull the trigger once to be hooked. It's really easy to get hooked on the black pistol too (Glocks)... they are rugged, simple, and work just fine.

[Niblick]

Good luck finding an A-team style factory folder, and if you do it'll cost as much as colt AR. 70$ mags, shit is crazy.

[strm_trpr]

Short term (0-6 months)
.22LR pistol. I don't need incredible accuracy, just reliability. A good plinker. But there are tone out there, Ruger mkII, Brownings etc... What's y'all's opinions on the best choice? I'd prefer to spend the lower side of $500 I love my Walther P22, it is reliable enough for plinking and it will be my first supressed firearm, it also replicates the feel of the p99 farily well.

Within a Year or So
.223 /5.56 carbine I'm not looking for an AR, something more along the lines of a Kel Tec SU-16C or a Mini 14. Am I forgetting any other good options? The folding and mag interchangeability aspects of the Su-16 are highly appealing, but reliability is very important to me as well, and it seems the Mini 14 may have the SU-16 beaten there. Opinions?I used to own a mini 14.....now i own a midy BCM/Frankingun AR-15. The mini was even sent away for acuracy work, it was just never worth the trouble, the mags alone will put you in the poor house. Yes it will eat any ammo and it was reliable. But it could never hit the broad side of a barn and there are limited scope options.

WIthin Three Years I'd Say
.45 ACP pistol. There's a ton of them out there. I'm looking for indestructible reliability and high-capacity. The H&K USP and Para 14rd 1911 are front runners. Is there anything to be had for less that is comparable? Also are there any decent .45's that can be converted to 9mm/40 S&W? I know 9mmto 40S&W and back again are common-ish.HK usp is a great gun (abit big but still great). Para are hit and miss, some love them some hate them. I recoment a single stack 1911 without a rail.

[MacAttack]

Hmmmm:
"WIthin Three Years I'd Say .45 ACP pistol. There's a ton of them out there. I'm looking for indestructible reliability and high-capacity. The H&K USP and Para 14rd 1911 are front runners. Is there anything to be had for less that is comparable? Also are there any decent .45's that can be converted to 9mm/40 S&W? I know 9mmto 40S&W and back again are common-ish."




EAA witness. Its everything your looking for and at a reasonable price.

[squinty]

OK so, I've kinda got a plan on equipin' myself for the decline of mankind. I have some questions on .22 pistols, .45 ACP pistols, and 5.56 carbine options. But first:

I am currently in possession of:

Marlin Model 80 bolt action .22 LR

Remington .308 WIN bolt action

Remington 870 12 gauge

All are "sporter" styled wood stocks. All are family " passed down generation-to-generation heirlooms" (ok 2 gens), I don't anticipate selling any. I am lacking in the handgun department, as well as something in 5.56/.223, and I'd like to rectify that in roughly the following order:

Short term (0-6 months)
.22LR pistol. I don't need incredible accuracy, just reliability. A good plinker. But there are tone out there, Ruger mkII, Brownings etc... What's y'all's opinions on the best choice? I'd prefer to spend the lower side of $500

Within a Year or So
.223 /5.56 carbine I'm not looking for an AR, something more along the lines of a Kel Tec SU-16C or a Mini 14. Am I forgetting any other good options? The folding and mag interchangeability aspects of the Su-16 are highly appealing, but reliability is very important to me as well, and it seems the Mini 14 may have the SU-16 beaten there. Opinions?

WIthin Three Years I'd Say
.45 ACP pistol. There's a ton of them out there. I'm looking for indestructible reliability and high-capacity. The H&K USP and Para 14rd 1911 are front runners. Is there anything to be had for less that is comparable? Also are there any decent .45's that can be converted to 9mm/40 S&W? I know 9mmto 40S&W and back again are common-ish.

A Little Bit Farther Down the Road
590 Cruiser FTW, marine finish
Kel-Tec RFB, .308/7.62 This guy is just so full of awesomeness, pricey, but dang, really slaps the word "battle" next to "rifle"
Ruger 10/22
.357 Magnum revolver
.357 lever action rifle

In The Future Where Reality Slips Away and I Am Just Daydreaming
FN FS2000 ALL THE WAY!!
FN Five-seveN
FN PS90
Custom AR from LaRue Tactical, + AR-57 upper

Jeezus I have a hang up on FN, those damn Belgians.

>goes to eat some waffles

Anyway, thoughts, input? I am currently 18, but my parents have agreed to purchase the .22 pistol with me, so that is all cool there. Imma plannin' on waiting on the '45 till I'm 21 and CC certified and whatnot.
Thanks!
Kent

Vs. the mossberg mariner, if you want a nickel plated shotgun, consider the Remington Marine Magnum. Works like the remington you've already got, it's 2" shorter and handier.

I bought a lot of .45 handguns early on because I listened to a bunch of old men who were sort of emotionally attached to that caliber. With modern SD ammunition there isn't much difference in terminal performance between 9mm, .40, and .45 - so I wish I'd picked the easier shooting, cheaper 9mm, and that is the caliber I'll stick with for future handgun purchases.

Of the hi-cap .45s you mentioned - I'd take a long hard look at the para-ordnance before buying it over the USP. At one time para had a terrible reputation for quality control. Might be different now, I passed on them a few years back. The high cap paras also had a blockier, less pleasant shape than the polymer high cap .45s. I like my XD .45 just fine, and you can't go too wrong with a Glock 21.

Oh, and the usual advice applies, find a range that rents the handguns you're interested, or hit up friends that already own them. See what you shoot best and what feels good to you before deciding what to buy.