Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

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zobmiedown
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by zobmiedown » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:43 pm

According to the Modern Reloading second edition for a 180gr xtp bullet HP-38 starts at 4.1 gr at 797fps and maxes out at 5.0gr at 947 fps

The Lyman Reloading Handbook using a 180 gr jacketed bullet lists win 231 at a starting load of 5.0 gr at 927 fps and a max load of 5.6 gr at 1015 fps

None of my other manuals list load data for 40 S&W with 180 grain bullets using HP-38 or win 231.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by tedbeau » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:16 am

I appreciate the information Zombiedown.
I think your data from the modern reloading manual matches Hodgdons web site exactly.
[quote]
Powder Hodgdon HP-38 bullet dia..400" Overall length1.125" Min load 4.1 FPS 797 Press 23,800 PSI Max load 5.0 FPS 947 Press 32,900 PSI

I am curious though, isn't the XTP also a jacketed bullet? Wouldn't the data from the Lymans book be similar for the XTP verses other jacketed bullets? I realize jacketed doesn't necessarily mean hollowpoint, would that explain the difference in max load and speed?

I get the fact that there are differences in required loads for lead bullets verses plated verses jacketed, and that even amongst the same type but different manufactures there could be some differences so I'm trying to gather as much information as I can. Can someone explain to me in order of slowest or lowest powder charge to highest, in general terms is leaded lower than plated or higher, and same for jacketed verses plated. I don't want to do interpolations, because I know that's not the way to do it, just trying to gain general knowledge.

Also I know the difference in construction between jacketed and plated, but can you tell by looking at one verses the other if it's a jacketed or a plated bullet?

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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by brothaman » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:31 am

FUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so tired of fighting my powder measure pouring extruded powders. I'm using a RCBS Uniflow,.. but it likes to chops stick powders. I have read the the Lyman Ideal works very well. I have one, but its tube is gone so I have no way to really test it.

What do I need to buy? Just tell me.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Halfapint » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:08 am

Not going to lie, I haven't even read the post above this. But..... I went to the local shoot'n pit and picked up over 5k .223 brass.... Well most of it is marked as Remington brass, with some that look like they are military markings. I figure the Remington would be .223 with the ones that look to be military would be 5.56, now I know the only real difference would be that one is packed to a higher pressure.

So, my question is..... Could I load the .223 brass with pressures of the 5.56? I have looked at some reloading books while I helped one of the 005 guys organize his makespace and the book didn't say anything. I really don't think it would make any difference.

My second question is, whats the best powder to use. The books I've looked through say IMR-3031, H-322,335,748, and aa-2015. I have 2 lbs of IMR-4198, though I've read that that is better for bigger calibers, could it work for reloading 5.56?? If not would it work for reloading .308.

Sorry. I'm a complete n00b at reloading I have access to scales and presses and all that, I also have lots of brass. I'm ok with killing some time, weighing some powder and sitting back and makin my own cartridges.

Thanks for putting up with my ignorant post! I'm sure I've earned a couple facepalms :D
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Hollis » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:44 pm

Halfapint wrote: So, my question is..... Could I load the .223 brass with pressures of the 5.56? I have looked at some reloading books while I helped one of the 005 guys organize his makespace and the book didn't say anything. I really don't think it would make any difference.

Go by what is in your reloading book. 5.56 NATO is specifically defined .223 round. If you are using military brass you will probably need a tool for removing the primer and then swedging (SP?) the pocket for the primer. Lee makes a pretty inexpensive set up.

Military requires a crimped primer. Not needed for reloads.


IIRC modern .223 rifles should not have a problem. Best is to consult the manufactured.


Best powder depends on your rifle. A good starting point is Ken Water's Pet Loads. Also component manufacturer generally have data for using their components in reloads.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by brothaman » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:20 pm

Halfapint wrote: So, my question is..... Could I load the .223 brass with pressures of the 5.56? I have looked at some reloading books while I helped one of the 005 guys organize his makespace and the book didn't say anything. I really don't think it would make any difference.
Are you sure there's no published data to do what you want to do? Do you know what your shooting goal is? How far to do plan on shooting and what bullet weight are you loading? Are you sure you'd have a significant gain over published data by loading hot? Also,.. do you want a load to closely match an off the shelf load so there only minimal tweaking to your zero when you have to buy loaded ammo?

Also, IMR 4198 is just fine for 223 loads.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by eugene » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:54 pm

Tested my Chrony over the weekend
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Hollis » Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:40 pm

A friend once said one of the most important reloading equipment is a Chrony.

I tend to agree to that view point. Just do not shoot the Chrony as a friend of mine did. :)
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by zobmiedown » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:21 am

Hey I had a chronograph but my father in law killed it one fine day down the street at our hooting spot. it took one round or 40S&W straight thru the entire thing and now its sitting in the shed in pieces.

as to the .223 Remington vs 5.56 NATO here is what the Hornady handbook of cartridge reloading has to say in case anyone here does not know this already.

"The main difference between the 5.56 NATO and the .223 Remington is the operating pressure and chamber throat. SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute) maximum pressure for the .223 Remington is 55,000 psi. The 5.56 NATO is loaded to 60,000 psi. Chamber throat for the .223 Remington is shorter than 5.56 NATO chambers as well.

Yes you can shoot .223 Remington in a rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO but it is not recommended to shoot 5.56 NATO in a rifle chambered in .223 Remington as it is unsafe due the pressure differences and chamber throat difference.

Interestingly enough the Hornady handbook of cartridge reloading has load data sections for .223 Remington, .223 Remington Service Rifle, and 5.56 NATO. Each section has different load data.

As an example loading 55 gr bullets using IMR 8208XBR for .223 is 22.8 gr - 25.8 but for 5.56 NATO it is 20.2 gr - 24.5 gr.

I personal only load for .223 Remington for several reasons. First not all of my rifles are labeled .223/5.56. Yes all of my AR-15 variants are labeled for both but not my bolt action varmint guns. So as to not have to worry about accidently loading a 5.56 NATO in to a .223 Remington only rifle I just stock to .223 Remington loads. I have never noticed a difference in accuracy or terminal effects between the two loadings anyway. But I only load 55 gr fmj bullets over 25 gr of H335. Why? because I can get the 55gr bullets in bulk for cheep, the local store has H335 on a regular basis, the load works well and is accurate for me and 99% of the time it is just plinking ammo but would still be effective in the 60 yard range from my patio to the front gate to the property should the dead rise again. Yes I have loaded .223 55gr over WIN 748 and IMR4064 in the past but those powders are not always available and I have no noticeable difference in accuracy with them over H335. By sticking with one load I don't have to worry about re-zeroing my rifles every time I go shooting.

So for me there is no reason to try and reach 5.56 NATO pressures in my reloads over just sticking to .223 Remington loads that I know will be safe in all my rifles.

Of course that is an individual decision and everyone is fee to do as they please. I guess the real questions we al have to ask ourselves in this are what purposes are you reloading for Plinking, hunting, self defense) and are all the rifles you are reloading for chambered for both .223 and 5.56 for safety purposes?
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Hollis » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:41 pm

Zombiedown. I try avoiding max pressure loads too. It is generally too hard on the brass, the firearm and the shooter.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by zobmiedown » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:45 am

Hollis, My thoughts exactly. Why put unnecessary wear on expensive firearms, wear out my brass and make my already rebuilt shoulder sore to simply punch holes in paper and the occasional Javalina or coyote. Funny thing is when I go elk hunting I only use factory ammo even though I reload 308 and 30/30 for those rifles as well and have never had a reload ail to go bang. Then again I only shoot rattle snakes with factory 38 spl shot shells too.

I have fallen way behind in my reloading lately. My dumb ass taught my wife and daughter to shoot my 9mm's and ar-15's over the last month and now I have three full coffee cans of each to go through and get cleaned and reloaded. I need to have the oldest one come home on leave from Georgia and help me catch up again. Damn Army moved my powder measuring monkey to far away to be much help these days.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Hollis » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:24 am

Zombiedown; My big mistake, a super cool thing to do is getting a Dillon. I can do a lot of reloading in a weekend or so for the year. With a single stage I was reloading every couple of weeks or so. A year in between reloading is along time. Also I shoot less now that I did 10 years ago. Dillon made me lazy, I bought another one when I was reloading a lot so I did not have to change primer feed, which on a Dillon is easy to do. Last year I sold one of my Dillon, so maybe back to reloading. My Daughter use to help me reload, she started when she was 9. She is now pre-med student, so no more help for a while.

I have a .338 Win Mag for elk, our elk is really tasty here. I use a single stage for that, but never load many rounds.

I think part of the reloader problems is inexperience and inattention to the operation.

I was reloading for about 38 metallic cartridges. BP Shotgun, 45/100 sharps, pistol including combustible and paper cartridges. A few I had to make my own brass for other cartridges, 30 Herrett from 30/30, 6.5 Sauer from 9.5, 256 Win Mag from 357. They are pretty easy to do. When I had lots of 30-06 brass, I would convert them to 8MM Mauser, 270, .308.

BP metallic is a lot of fun with a little extra clean up.

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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by zobmiedown » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:46 pm

Actually I do my loading on a Dillon 550. I have done a very small amount on my brother in laws lee progressive but I like the Dillon I have so much better. I admit I don't use the Dillon to its full potential. I more use it as a two stage press. I take all the fired brass de-prime and resize it then it goes to the tumblers from there it hits the sonic cleaner for a final cleaning. After that I re-prime it all with a lee hand priming tool. I measure each powder charge on a Hornady digital scale and from there it goes back to the Dillon to seat and crimp the bullets.

I know that is not how the press was designed to be used but it works for me as I do everything by caliber batches. Set the dies and shell plate and load one caliber until I am out of casings for that caliber.

Currently I am loading for 5 rifle calibers and 6 pistol calibers. The oldest son was home for the last Christmas for three weeks so with him on one powder scale and my daughter on the other one we got completely caught up had not casings left to load. My daughter and my buddy measure powder for me when they can. Lately though other priorities have prevented very much effort in the reloading. Between the in laws visiting, taxes, court filings against the ex for contempt of court and tax fraud, kids school schedules, and getting the gardens going again I have had little free time to sit down at the press. The gardens are a priority as the couple that owns my favorite local gun store are from the south and love okra. Since none of the stores here carry it I am their only source of supply and they are willing to trade for it.

The other thing that has delayed my reloading was the building of my first AR-15 from parts. I have a few but have always wanted to build one from pieces. I finished my first one and now I am addicted to that as well. Have parts being delivered tomorrow for a second build.

The good news is the kids only have a month of school left so my daughter will be able to help me get caught up again especially since she shoots more of it than any one else.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by minengr » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:33 pm

brothaman wrote:FUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so tired of fighting my powder measure pouring extruded powders. I'm using a RCBS Uniflow,.. but it likes to chops stick powders. I have read the the Lyman Ideal works very well. I have one, but its tube is gone so I have no way to really test it.

What do I need to buy? Just tell me.
I have a Lyman and quit using it for the same reason. I have a DPS3 too, and it works the best but is spendy. For the money, I think your best bet is a used Redding. You can get the cheap maroon/brown ones on ebay pretty cheap and work pretty well.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Snapshot7.62 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:48 pm

I am still fairly new to reloading, have been doing 9mm for almost a year now and just added another caliber, .44 Magnum. Bought dies, caliber conversion and quick change kit for the 550b and started working up my first loads for it last night. I am starting out with 180 and 200gr Hornady XTP's on top of SR-4756. Not a true "magnum" powder I know, but I have it, and data for it.

Another purchase I made was a skylight kit for the 550 from inline fabrication. So far I am very impressed with it. Mine dropped right in the center hole of the toolhead and throws light right where it is needed, making visually checking the powder charge much easier and my reloading much safer. IMHO one of these is money well spent.

http://inlinefabrication.com/collection ... dillon-550
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by brothaman » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:56 pm

minengr wrote:
brothaman wrote:FUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so tired of fighting my powder measure pouring extruded powders. I'm using a RCBS Uniflow,.. but it likes to chops stick powders. I have read the the Lyman Ideal works very well. I have one, but its tube is gone so I have no way to really test it.

What do I need to buy? Just tell me.
I have a Lyman and quit using it for the same reason. I have a DPS3 too, and it works the best but is spendy. For the money, I think your best bet is a used Redding. You can get the cheap maroon/brown ones on ebay pretty cheap and work pretty well.
How does the DPS work? Dial up a weight and hit a button? If its that easy, I'm might go for one once I get caught up on some gun projects. I'm super frustrated. Right now I get more accurate measures with my Lee Dippers. It just a slow as how i'm working with the Uniflow. Maybe I'll just quit with extruded powers all together.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by chills1994 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:20 am

MiHec hollow point moulds showed up yesterday.

Four total:

9mm
.40 S&W
.45 ACP
.308ish
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by Cavediver » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:08 pm

Hollis wrote:A friend once said one of the most important reloading equipment is a Chrony.

I tend to agree to that view point. Just do not shoot the Chrony as a friend of mine did. :)
There are two types of reloaders: those who have shot their chrono ...

:lol:
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by eugene » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:31 pm

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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by brothaman » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:10 am

Cavediver wrote:
Hollis wrote:A friend once said one of the most important reloading equipment is a Chrony.

I tend to agree to that view point. Just do not shoot the Chrony as a friend of mine did. :)
There are two types of reloaders: those who have shot their chrono ...

:lol:
...and those that haven't shot it yet.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by brothaman » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:14 am

chills1994 wrote:MiHec hollow point moulds showed up yesterday.

Four total:

9mm
.40 S&W
.45 ACP
.308ish
How heavy? 308ish? You gonna mold bigger and size down so you can make bulletd from .312 and smaller? Show us a pic of that mold. It's kinda neat to see cast lead Hps for Rifles.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by minengr » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:27 pm

brothaman wrote:
minengr wrote:
brothaman wrote:FUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so tired of fighting my powder measure pouring extruded powders. I'm using a RCBS Uniflow,.. but it likes to chops stick powders. I have read the the Lyman Ideal works very well. I have one, but its tube is gone so I have no way to really test it.

What do I need to buy? Just tell me.
I have a Lyman and quit using it for the same reason. I have a DPS3 too, and it works the best but is spendy. For the money, I think your best bet is a used Redding. You can get the cheap maroon/brown ones on ebay pretty cheap and work pretty well.
How does the DPS work? Dial up a weight and hit a button? If its that easy, I'm might go for one once I get caught up on some gun projects. I'm super frustrated. Right now I get more accurate measures with my Lee Dippers. It just a slow as how i'm working with the Uniflow. Maybe I'll just quit with extruded powers all together.
Basically yes. You punch in the charge weight, repeat, and you're off to the races, usually. But it can be a PITA. You have to let it warm up for 30min, and if it throws two charges in a row off by .2 grains you have to recalibrate. But when it's running well it's great. Typically I have it throw a charge, dump it into the case, set the pan back, and while it's throwing the next charge you have time to seat the bullet. For most of my reloading I use my Redding, but for bigger stuff like my 7 Mag and 300 Weatherby I prefer the DPS.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by chills1994 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:39 pm

brothaman wrote:
chills1994 wrote:MiHec hollow point moulds showed up yesterday.

Four total:

9mm
.40 S&W
.45 ACP
.308ish
How heavy? 308ish? You gonna mold bigger and size down so you can make bulletd from .312 and smaller? Show us a pic of that mold. It's kinda neat to see cast lead Hps for Rifles.
I don't know how heavy just yet. I think it is in the 150ish ballpark. This is for my AR that is chambered in 7.62X39. I have to run out real quick for an errand, but I will be back to post a pic of what I am going to try to do.

Also, I think the MiHec moulds take Lee handles, which I still have to order in.
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Re: Press therapy - reloading room *chat*

Post by chills1994 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:54 am

This is what I am looking to do with my cast hollow points:

Image

I tried to powder coat bullets by dissolving the powder coat in either acetone or laquer thinner. Then tumbling the bullets in that. And then baking in a toaster oven on a wire mesh tray.

Those results were not good. A lot of bumps or ridges where the powder coat stuck to the mesh.

So I figure I would get some sheet metal, drive screws through it, then set the bulletsv hollow points down onto the screws' points.

I "borrowed" that picture off the reloading forum at AR15.com .
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