What Guns Would You Avoid Buying Based on Performance?

[searching4itnc]

I've been going through a lot of the Firearms Threads and keep seeing recommendation upon recommendation for best pistols, shotguns and rifles.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ONE'S YOU WOULDN'T RECOMMEND?

Casting my vote for the SIG MOSQUITO .22 LR.

I bought one for my wife for Christmas. It was her first handgun and the first time she's ever shot a pistol.

PROS:

The gun feels about 90% in size compared to the SIG 220. Tactically, it's a winner. Has a tactical rail for flashlight/laser (bought a cheap one on www.ebay.com for around $40). The pistol is dead one accurate at 20 yards. It feels great in my hands and is extremely fun and cheap to shoot. The price wasn't bad either; especially compared to regular SIG pistols. I picked mine up new at $309.00.

CONS:

(1) The pistol only came with one magazine. Another is $30.00.

(2) Not enough commercially available holsters on the market yet for my tastes.

(3) It jams. (Biggest CON). And I understand after doing research that the jamming is a major problem. SIG apparently is aware and changed the new springs in the latest line of Mosquito pistols, but it's still not helping. I either experience a feeding problem or ejection problem. I've done a bit of further research and discovered that high velocity ammunition can make a difference (over 1300 fps), but it's still an issue. I've tried Federal, Remington, Dynapoint, and yes: the CCI Stinger ammo. The problem seems to be fewer, but it's still there. My best ammo so far is the Winchester High Velocity HP. Unfortunately, it still jams about every other magazine change. I've already bought over $70.00 in various ammo trying what works best. I did find some www.youtube.com videos that suggest there's a feed ramp problem and that the softer .22 bullet "scraps" the chamber entering it, causing lead to smear. This smear is causing loading and ejecting problems and recommends that the ramp be polished. I've got a buddy/gunsmith doing that right now. Of all the pistols I've ever bought and fired out of the box, the performance on this one has been the worst.

[Anianna]

Mosin Nagant - "You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4."

[Regular Guy]

Anything Taurus.

[Liff]

Anything made by Kel Tec. I had one kaboom on me personally.

[searching4itnc]

Anything Taurus.

I'll only slightly disagree with you based on one handgun. I bought the Taurus TCP .380 as a back-up gun. I love it! Much better than the POS Kel-Tec I had! Accurate and I've qualified with it up to 25 yards. I've had it for two years now and I love it! No problems!

[Anianna]

Anything Taurus.

Based on? (Just curious, not being argumentative.)

[Turtlewolf]

AR15, interesting design but amazing that such a flawed idea would last so long and spawn such a ravenous following. Even in Alaska they put a reciprocating handle on it to facilitate busting it open if you dropped it in the snow and it got a bit icey. In a Northern AO there are much better options for a semi automatic fighting firearm, and we still have the occasional Grizzley that come through so the full power battle rifle (.308, 7.62x54R, .303, 6.5x55) has a bit of merit over the intermediate cartridge battle rifle (5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm and 7.62x39mm).
cheers

[Jsimmonsgr]

I have to disagree on the Taurus and the Mosin-Nagant, hell even the Mosquito ( with a couple of mods).
My personaly carry gun is a Taurus 1911 AR. http://www.taurususa.com/product-detail ... bseries=19
It is every bit as reliable and accurate as my Springfield Loaded, with a fully loaded weight thats half ofthe Springfield.

The Mosin-Nagant ( or my personal fave the Moist Nugget) is a pain in the ass to cycle the bolt on, generally has a craptastic trigger and horrid recoil. This being said with about 30 min worth of work on one you can have a nice trigger, semi smooth bolt, lightweight ( for a full size russian rifle) hard hitting cannon. My personaly Mosin is a M-38 cavelry carbine, with above mentioned upgrades and a forward mounted scout scope, damn thing is minute of pie plate to about 650 yards. Also the ammo is dirt cheap.

The Sig Mosquito is one of Sigs best ideas and worst designs, it is light weight it feels good in the hand and is dead nuts accurate, however it jams a lot without constant maintenance and quite a bit of work. I have one as a suppressor host and *with the right ammo* and the right spring, and work to the feed ramp, and lots of lube, it does its job admirably. It happens to be one of the handful of pistols that I only use frog lube on, and I only use copperjacketed sub-sonic hollow points in it. It is ammo picky, but thats the nice thing about a .22, you can buy 10000 rounds of ammo for less than the cost of a case of 9mm.

My choices for guns to avoid would be.... Jennings, Bryco, Jimenez, Raven, Cobra, Iver Johnson, Universal, anything in .25, .32 or any of the new 'pocket rocket' carry concealed guns ( taurus 738, S&W bodyguard ect.), NAA Guardians or Mini Revolvers, Taurus Judge or S&W Governer, single shot shotguns\rifles, 5mm remington rimfire, or any oddball caliber I can't find in a walmart or local gunshop, any 'sporterized' military rifle ( that I did not sporterize myself), semi auto hunting shotguns, benchrest rifles, and .50 cal 'sniper' rifles.

Also I would like to add any aftermarket lasers aside from the military issue ones and *maybe* crimson trace, any non military night vision, any non military thermal sights, and those dammed 37mm flare launchers that look like a 40mm under barrel grenade launcher.

[Jsimmonsgr]

I also would disagree about the AR, they have a bad rap but with a little TLC they are excellent shooters. I figure in PAW I am not really gonna be trying to kill a bear with a defensive rifle, its more likely that I will use a weapon designed for large game, such as a Mosin or Rem 700 BDL. For me a defensive weapon needs to be accurate, low recoil, able to penetrate light cover, and have low weight ammo, the AR platform foots this bill quite well. As far as snow and ice, lubricants, cleaning methods, and piston systems take care of most of the issues.

[Bearcat]

Century AK-74, DPMS, STAR Model B hanguns, CZ-82 and CZ-52. I have shot and owned all of them (except for the DPMS, that was a close friend's) and they all either jammed consistently or shit the bed entirely.

[Turtlewolf]

I also would disagree about the AR, they have a bad rap but with a little TLC they are excellent shooters. I figure in PAW I am not really gonna be trying to kill a bear with a defensive rifle, its more likely that I will use a weapon designed for large game, such as a Mosin or Rem 700 BDL. For me a defensive weapon needs to be accurate, low recoil, able to penetrate light cover, and have low weight ammo, the AR platform foots this bill quite well. As far as snow and ice, lubricants, cleaning methods, and piston systems take care of most of the issues.

If you want a piston firearm there are firearms designed as such. It isn't the DG system that I dislike or even the .223/5.56 cartridge. The bolt design is the flaw. Small amounts of moisture in the bolt cause massive failure, the need to run wet and the tiny spring powered ejector=failure in cold climates. I use grease and want a firearm that will run on bear fat if it needs to, not special lubes and oils.
In many areas the AR is perfectly acceptable as the availability of parts and such is very good, but none of that matters if it is -30C and your firearm has locked up or failed.
Thats why I specified in my AO.
My SKS, Lee Enfield and even my AG42B Ljungman (to a slightly lesser degree as it is harder to clear a stuck case) have all passed muster in a climate that can be -35C in the morning and +15C less than 8 hours later with snow, sleet, rain and everything else all in the same day.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING anyone selling thier AR, I am advocating knowing your AO and gearing accordingly.
My Lee Enfield has been a trusted tool since I was 14, the AG42B since I was 21 and I got my first SKS when I was 26 if I remember correctly and more than once I have wanted to buy an AR but they just don't pass muster for me.
Oh and the Mosin Nagant is almost too good to be true, it seems perfectly suited to my uses except that I already have my firearm preps taken care of. I've owned and used more than a few with no issues of sticky bolt syndrome, but this is what would you avoid buying based on performance right? So it will all be full of our personal experiences.
Cheers
EDIT:we also have a good supply of 7.62x39 M43 so using an intermediate cartridge for grizzly self defence (although always a poor choice in my oppinion) wouldn't be out of the question iff one had too, after all it is shot placement that does 80% of the work.

[Jsimmonsgr]

I also would disagree about the AR, they have a bad rap but with a little TLC they are excellent shooters. I figure in PAW I am not really gonna be trying to kill a bear with a defensive rifle, its more likely that I will use a weapon designed for large game, such as a Mosin or Rem 700 BDL. For me a defensive weapon needs to be accurate, low recoil, able to penetrate light cover, and have low weight ammo, the AR platform foots this bill quite well. As far as snow and ice, lubricants, cleaning methods, and piston systems take care of most of the issues.

If you want a piston firearm there are firearms designed as such. It isn't the DG system that I dislike or even the .223/5.56 cartridge. The bolt design is the flaw. Small amounts of moisture in the bolt cause massive failure, the need to run wet and the tiny spring powered ejector=failure in cold climates. I use grease and want a firearm that will run on bear fat if it needs to, not special lubes and oils.
In many areas the AR is perfectly acceptable as the availability of parts and such is very good, but none of that matters if it is -30C and your firearm has locked up or failed.
Thats why I specified in my AO.
My SKS, Lee Enfield and even my AG42B Ljungman (to a slightly lesser degree as it is harder to clear a stuck case) have all passed muster in a climate that can be -35C in the morning and +15C less than 8 hours later with snow, sleet, rain and everything else all in the same day.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING anyone selling thier AR, I am advocating knowing your AO and gearing accordingly.
My Lee Enfield has been a trusted tool since I was 14, the AG42B since I was 21 and I got my first SKS when I was 26 if I remember correctly and more than once I have wanted to buy an AR but they just don't pass muster for me.
Oh and the Mosin Nagant is almost too good to be true, it seems perfectly suited to my uses except that I already have my firearm preps taken care of. I've owned and used more than a few with no issues of sticky bolt syndrome, but this is what would you avoid buying based on performance right? So it will all be full of our personal experiences.
Cheers
EDIT:we also have a good supply of 7.62x39 M43 so using an intermediate cartridge for grizzly self defence (although always a poor choice in my oppinion) wouldn't be out of the question iff one had too, after all it is shot placement that does 80% of the work.

Ok I mis-understood what you were saying. I live in a desert and trust my ARs with out question, the catch is I hand assembled all my AR rifles and I am a picky bastard when it comes to parts and quality. I may spend quite a bit more than the avarage joe on my kit, but it never fails me.

On a side note have you tried the LMT enhanced bolt? http://www.lmtstore.com/bolts-carriers- ... embly.html It may increase your reliability quite a bit in cold climate, that with frog lube ( pretty much all I use) should have the rifle running pretty smooth.

[minengr]

The bolt design is the flaw. Small amounts of moisture in the bolt cause massive failure, the need to run wet and the tiny spring powered ejector=failure in cold climates.

Care to provide a link? I'd like to read more about this.

[Pochop7]

Anything Taurus.

I'll only slightly disagree with you based on one handgun. I bought the Taurus TCP .380 as a back-up gun. I love it! Much better than the POS Kel-Tec I had! Accurate and I've qualified with it up to 25 yards. I've had it for two years now and I love it! No problems!

I'd agree I have the same model as well as a Taurus pt24/7 I absolutely love them both. I used to be a beretta man now the berettas sit in the closet while the Taurus is in my bed side safe

[Regular Guy]

Anything Taurus.

Based on? (Just curious, not being argumentative.)

I've yet to see one survive a pistol course. Get it hot and dirty, any of them and it will choke. For $100-150 more you can have a Glock.

[Brock Meatstone]

AR15, interesting design but amazing that such a flawed idea would last so long and spawn such a ravenous following. Even in Alaska they put a reciprocating handle on it to facilitate busting it open if you dropped it in the snow and it got a bit icey. In a Northern AO there are much better options for a semi automatic fighting firearm, and we still have the occasional Grizzley that come through so the full power battle rifle (.308, 7.62x54R, .303, 6.5x55) has a bit of merit over the intermediate cartridge battle rifle (5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm and 7.62x39mm).
cheers

No, they don't; at least, not that I've seen in the last 22 years, on any military base in this state. Unless you have a link for that particular bit of info, I'm inclined to wave the BS flag.

On Topic: Bushmaster...anything really.

[ace of shades]

Anything Taurus.

Thread called "Taurus = Fuck the fucking fuckers..."
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=23457


My first pistol was/is a Taurus .357 608. I bought it after research on the caliber and then seen an eight shot .357 mag. I debated between that and a Kimber (i was young and dumb. Damn you hindsight, damn you). Ballistics on the .357 were the deciding factor. That pistol single handedly almost turned me off of pistols. To me it's a belly gun and a club. For years I couldn't figure out why I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and then by chance I was looking here for preparation ideas and seen that thread. Also, I don't remember the model, but a friend has a Taurus 40 cal that has had 2 mags shot through it before the rear site - in his own words "Fell the fuck off. not just fell off.. fell, the, fuck, off"

On the subject of KelTecs, I have never had a problem with any of mine. I had a P32 and a P11 loved them both. They say you have to fluff and buff, and then break them in and stand on your head and you MIGHT get one to work correctly. I never did any of that to mine

My Walther P22. All I can say is that I LOVE it. Have no Idea about any other of the Walthers, but my P22 is awesome

I have seen - in videos - "amazing" performances out of the Hi-points. I don't know if they updated and improved over the years but after shooting one years ago I don't feel safe around them even on display

The only other "horrible" firearm I have ever owned or shot was my AR7. It seemed like a grate deal for $80 and I got one that has all the problems people complaine about. Like the KelTec, the AR7 needs work to work correctly, but I don't think you should put that much work into something to make it shoot.

TWDR -
Taurus and AR7 - thumbs down
Walther and KelTec - thumbs up

I hear Rugar has started to go to shit, In quality and customer service

[Turtlewolf]

The bolt design is the flaw. Small amounts of moisture in the bolt cause massive failure, the need to run wet and the tiny spring powered ejector=failure in cold climates.

Care to provide a link? I'd like to read more about this.

Nope personal experience is all and I'm not going to get into a debate about it either, if it works for you run it.
As I said I am not advocating the bashing of the platform, thats not what I'm doing.
All spring loaded ejectors are a week link, Model 700 Remington included. It also is a very good rifle, but not for me.
Thats my final word on this as it isn't a discussion to me, others have beat this dead dog and I won't.
cheers

[Turtlewolf]

AR15, interesting design but amazing that such a flawed idea would last so long and spawn such a ravenous following. Even in Alaska they put a reciprocating handle on it to facilitate busting it open if you dropped it in the snow and it got a bit icey. In a Northern AO there are much better options for a semi automatic fighting firearm, and we still have the occasional Grizzley that come through so the full power battle rifle (.308, 7.62x54R, .303, 6.5x55) has a bit of merit over the intermediate cartridge battle rifle (5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm and 7.62x39mm).
cheers

No, they don't; at least, not that I've seen in the last 22 years, on any military base in this state. Unless you have a link for that particular bit of info, I'm inclined to wave the BS flag.

On Topic: Bushmaster...anything really.

It's an old magazine article and it wasn't military but a fish and game style organization, it's in a pile some where but with 100's of magazines stashed since the 1980's I don't feel inclined to dig it up. Again I AM NOT bashing the AR.
cheers
OT:Model 700, spring loaded ejector=no thankyou.

[Captain_Obvious]

The bolt design is the flaw. Small amounts of moisture in the bolt cause massive failure, the need to run wet and the tiny spring powered ejector=failure in cold climates.

Care to provide a link? I'd like to read more about this.

Nope personal experience is all and I'm not going to get into a debate about it either, if it works for you run it.
As I said I am not advocating the bashing of the platform, thats not what I'm doing.
All spring loaded ejectors are a week link, Model 700 Remington included. It also is a very good rifle, but not for me.
Thats my final word on this as it isn't a discussion to me, others have beat this dead dog and I won't.
cheers

People with a lot of trigger time on AR's (Dave, Doc66, and many others) would disagree with you about the perceived weaknesses of the platform. They will be here eventually.

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[Maverick299]

Hi-Point pistols should be avoided like the plague. They jam non-stop and if you had to throw one at someone after a malfunction they are so heavy you would probably tear a rotater cuff!

[Turtlewolf]

The bolt design is the flaw. Small amounts of moisture in the bolt cause massive failure, the need to run wet and the tiny spring powered ejector=failure in cold climates.

Care to provide a link? I'd like to read more about this.

Nope personal experience is all and I'm not going to get into a debate about it either, if it works for you run it.
As I said I am not advocating the bashing of the platform, thats not what I'm doing.
All spring loaded ejectors are a week link, Model 700 Remington included. It also is a very good rifle, but not for me.
Thats my final word on this as it isn't a discussion to me, others have beat this dead dog and I won't.
cheers

People with a lot of trigger time on AR's (Dave, Doc66, and many others) would disagree with you about the perceived weaknesses of the platform. They will be here eventually.

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

Okay, evidently this poor dog needs another kick, my life experiences are not "perceived notions" or "gun store knowledge" nor are they based on Jeff Cooper (rest his soul), I've seen plunger style ejectors fail badly in my AO. I have not once EVER said the AR was a bad over all platform and I will not tell anyone who is invested and trained on the platform that they should sell it and buy something else. I said it was not for me and explained why.
You know why?
Because every system has a weakness and having a firearm that is 85% reliable in your area is better than having nothing at all. I am a perfectionist when it comes to my gear and my experiences are just those, I don't form any oppinions based on internet experts.
I practice what I preach and don't appreciate people who can't read and understand before they pass judgement.
Sorry to the OP for this and to stay OT I have to say I don't like handguns without exposed hammers.
cheers

[Trebor]

Anything Taurus.

This.

[northernxposure]

Anything Taurus.

This.

One more time for those that didn't get it. Taurus is just too hit/miss to recommend.

NXP