ammo after shtf

[specops]

I here A LOT of guys talking about getting a .223 or a 40 s&w because the military uses them and law enforcement so they think that they can just walk into a base or local pd and just grab a couple thousand rounds and be set but I see multiple errors first they places would be well protected and second if there out scavenging I think they could only carry so much and third those places would have been wipped clean right? I'm stickin with 9mm and 5.45 will maybe not the greatest rounds in the world or most popular I know that I can stockup A LOT now so I won't need to scavenge I mean you can get 2160rds of 5.45 for $260 and you can get 420rds of .223 for $190 weres really the better deal? Do any of you guys agree with me on this?

[sarky]

You have a point based on your scenario. But look at it this way, A lot of people own ARs and have 5.56 ammo. the same with 9mm, .40sw, and .45. not to mention .357 and .44 mag. So pulling ammo off of the dead may actually make more sense. Even with you 5.45 ammo, I would take it and pull the bullets to reload in a 5.56. In a survival/scavange situation, waste nothing.

[Cadillac]

I know that ZS frowns on scavenging a.k.a. stealing, but if you take it off the already deceased, is it still stealing?

[TDW586]

I know that ZS frowns on scavenging a.k.a. stealing, but if you take it off the already deceased, is it still stealing?

Yes. If the owner is deceased it doesn't automatically become your property.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

[specops]

You have a point based on your scenario. But look at it this way, A lot of people own ARs and have 5.56 ammo. the same with 9mm, .40sw, and .45. not to mention .357 and .44 mag. So pulling ammo off of the dead may actually make more sense. Even with you 5.45 ammo, I would take it and pull the bullets to reload in a 5.56. In a survival/scavange situation, waste nothing.

I suppose I depends on your plan if you decide to scavenge off the dead or stay put in your house or bug out to the hills (my choice)

[hatchtrikk]

Rules fellas. Rules. viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895


Don't count on anything you don't own before shit hits the fan.


Yes, scavenging off of dead bodies is stealing.



ETA: specops, that includes land. Make sure you own the hills you plan to bug out to.

[Kutter_0311]

Specops, buy as much of the ammo you need now, when it's cheap.

Don't ever plan on getting anything post-zompoc, it's a huge stroke of luck just to get water then.

We've used the example of money on the street before. You wouldn't plan to pay your bills with the $1000 you're gonna find on the ground. Has anyone found $1000 on the ground before? Maybe, but my personal best was $20. I certainly don't plan on it...

[TheLastOne]

I for one do not believe that there will ever be a time where the Nat Guard (wtf really?) is going to be standing on the corner handing out ammo willy nilly to the public because 'the shtf'.


I also think that planning my preps around what ANYONE else has is pretty dumb unless you're talking about living in some sort of commune where everyone is doled out items to stock for the good of the community. And I think living in some sort of commune where I'm told what to do sounds really dumb too.


I do believe in stocking items that will help me in REALISTIC scenarios such as weather catastrophe, job loss, power goes out, I get a flat tire, I lose my job. I keep food, water, shelter, defensive supplies to keep my ass at home for a long damn time and away from whackos who are out trying to collect ammo from cops and/or shop at walmart when they haven't had a delivery in a week because a snow storm crippled shipping. I keep savings, insurance, and out-fucking-standing credit in case I lose my job and have no income for a couple weeks, or if my vehicle/home needs a major repair.

I do not believe that society is going to instantly crumble. I sure don't think that going outside to go hunt for food with 3 million other hungry people is a super idea on the off chance that society does suddenly go bye-bye. I don't think tailoring my defensive supplies to what ammo the local authorities use is using any sort of rational thinking process either. This isn't Resident Evil video games. You won't be collecting shotgun ammo and herbs from the police department (but it would be cooler if you could )


Tailoring your ammo/weapon types to what the authorities use because they have done the testing/developement/training with them and have found them effective IS sound, in my opinion.

[foxx]

I see your point, if you can afford it, get as much ammo as you can. Consider, if you leave on foot, how much can you carry? Also, extra mags, cleaners, parts, etc. are just as important as having enough ammo. A stockpile of ammo is no good if you can't maintain your gun(s).

Out in my rural area, there are no military bases, or army depots, just a Wal-Mart and our one gunshop. They will get looted during the insanity, there may be some ammo left, but I can't plan on it.
I have a .357 magnum, a 9mm, and a .32 auto derringer, common ammo types, they sell them everywhere. 9mm's are so much cheaper than the .357 magnums, my 9mm holds 15 +1, but the .357 magnum only holds 6. So, I try to keep twice as many 9mm's vs. the other. My derringer is a last ditch two shot, up close effort.
I have to know when to pull out the blades, and when to run, and when to shoot. My current setup only allows me to carry 75 rounds, in the guns, mags, or speedloaders. I just don't plan on fighting a hoard or an army, if it comes to that, I'm screwed. Hopefull, my family and neighbors can help me hold our own. They have guns as well.

[TheLastOne]

What insanity? Where are you going on foot with 75#s and why?

[foxx]

What insanity? Where are you going on foot with 75#s and why?

The OP is asking about when TSHTF, weather, or a serious flood, disease, war, I'd call that insanity, crazy, people running for their lives. Unfortunate tragedy has occured before, I thought Katrina was pretty insane. A famine, drought, electric grid failure, economic collapse, would make some folks go crazy, I hope I'm wrong. Shit, people go insane when their team wins or looses a championship, they riot in LA over basketball! What happens when something serious really happens?

You may have misread, 75 Rounds not Pounds. Why have guns, and not carry extra mags. I have three pistols, for my 9mm I have 4 magazines, that's 60 rounds. My .357 holds 6 + one speed loader, and a derringer holds 2. That's an easy load for me to carry. I would not go anywhere with 75# on me, I can backpack with 50lbs, did it twice this past summer. In a bug out situation, I would not even carry 50lbs, if I could help it.

I actually would plan on taking all my ammo if the situation called for and allowed it.

[Kutter_0311]

Foxx, do you own a rifle? If not, I'd start looking into it.

[Liff]

Stealing is stealing. For example: Taking jewelry off of a dead person before the dead person is buried. The only possible way to make stealing from the dead more reprehensible and repugnant is for you to be the causative agent of the person's demise and then you steal from them.

TheLastOne specifically (and most other people here) have got the right idea.

But to take it one step further, how many rounds do you think you are going to send before you receive one? Stay in the real world where there are no extra lives or health potions. I understand the, "My kingdom for a horse" idea, but be serious.

[thechin]

I know that ZS frowns on scavenging a.k.a. stealing, but if you take it off the already deceased, is it still stealing?

Stealing means to take something which is not rightfully yours (you didn't buy/create it). Theft is the willful taking of anther's property by stealth as opposed to robbery, the taking by force/injury, burglery, home invasion, and extortion. Either way your breaking da law. I typically stock up on items that have been used throughout history for bartering and trade such as aspirin, salt, sugar, ammo, spices, etc. I don't cook too often so my girlfriend is always asking why I buy these items in bulk.

My response "Meh, it's cheaper in the long run"

[foxx]

Foxx, do you own a rifle? If not, I'd start looking into it.

I'm trying to decide which rifle(s) would fit into my situation. I don't plan on bugging out of my home, it's rural, we have 5 acres, good neighbors, a cistern, septic system, a fireplace, and it's just better here than heading for the hills, IMO.

In terms of hunting, I can see needing a shotgun, a .22lr, and a larger caliber rifle, for deer. My .357 magnum could take a deer, but I don't know if I'm that good of a shot yet, I've thought about another .357 magnum in a lever action rifle, pros and cons.

Do I need a rifle for hunting or home defense? I don't know either, hunting is more realistic than shooting Zombies. Home defense, I can only shoot an intruder if our lives are in danger, so they have to be in the house, or close by. Plus, there are enough neighbors that I can't really shoot on our property, their houses are close enough. A shotgun or handgun seems better for HD and SD. I just don't know which way to plan, as far as my first rifle. Even if it was Zombies, shooting just attracts more and more Zombies.

[specops]

Foxx, do you own a rifle? If not, I'd start looking into it.

I'm trying to decide which rifle(s) would fit into my situation. I don't plan on bugging out of my home, it's rural, we have 5 acres, good neighbors, a cistern, septic system, a fireplace, and it's just better here than heading for the hills, IMO.

In terms of hunting, I can see needing a shotgun, a .22lr, and a larger caliber rifle, for deer. My .357 magnum could take a deer, but I don't know if I'm that good of a shot yet, I've thought about another .357 magnum in a lever action rifle, pros and cons.

Do I need a rifle for hunting or home defense? I don't know either, hunting is more realistic than shooting Zombies. Home defense, I can only shoot an intruder if our lives are in danger, so they have to be in the house, or close by. Plus, there are enough neighbors that I can't really shoot on our property, their houses are close enough. A shotgun or handguns seems better for HD and SD. I just don't know which way to plan, as far as my first rifle. Even if it was Zombies, shooting just attracts more and more Zombies.

You could get like a mossberg 500 with a 28inch barrel, then a 18inch barrel for hd, the either a 50.cal muzzleloader barrel or a 20inch slug barrel? That could be everything you would need really or you could get a good rifle like a marlin xs7. Or just get a cheapo sks a slap on a scope and your set for deer or zombies or groundhogs

[TheLastOne]

What insanity? Where are you going on foot with 75#s and why?

The OP is asking about when TSHTF, weather, or a serious flood, disease, war, I'd call that insanity, crazy, people running for their lives. Unfortunate tragedy has occured before, I thought Katrina was pretty insane. A famine, drought, electric grid failure, economic collapse, would make some folks go crazy, I hope I'm wrong. Shit, people go insane when their team wins or looses a championship, they riot in LA over basketball! What happens when something serious really happens?

You may have misread, 75 Rounds not Pounds. Why have guns, and not carry extra mags. I have three pistols, for my 9mm I have 4 magazines, that's 60 rounds. My .357 holds 6 + one speed loader, and a derringer holds 2. That's an easy load for me to carry. I would not go anywhere with 75# on me, I can backpack with 50lbs, did it twice this past summer. In a bug out situation, I would not even carry 50lbs, if I could help it.

I actually would plan on taking all my ammo if the situation called for and allowed it.

I did misread that, my bad.

I don't think those are the scenarios the op is going over though. Sounds more like Fallout2.
I've just been getting annoyed lately with the mythical shit hits the fan where we're all a bunch of Eli's wandering the wasteland living out of our rucks and I took it out on this thread.. That would be fun and all, but like I posted, it's way down on things I'm really preparing for. I would like to see more people posting about how they are prepping for real world shit rather than mad max shit. I think the notion of prepping for the cops/military to be handing out rounds/sharing is so fricking full-retard that I can see down my throat my eyes roll back so hard. I think prepping to defend yourself is awesome, but people need to/should be realistic.

And your scenarios are realistic, and I say stay the fuck home for all of them Prep to do that.

As for battle rattle carry weight (and boy do I think that going out with battle rattle is only relevant in a homeland war situation, and it seems like a last ditch-I'm-taking-a-few-baddies-with-me type thing) I'd be running 12 30 round Ar mags, and 6 20 round pistol mags, food for 3 days, 3L of water and filter, the clothes on my back, knife, fire kit, spare socks, outer layers, and a damn poncho and ground pad and that would be it more or less. Again, I don't see that scenario as anywhere near likely, so I don't have it as a priority. However, it is the easiest to prep for because I have all that shit anyway.
Prepping for 3 months(at least) of food, water, shelter is hard and more likely needed imo and very high on my priorities based on similar scenarios you listed. Bug in is the way to go for all of them, I think.


/edit to read your last post

I'd maybe do some research about how good rifles are for hd. You'd be surprised. Your situation, I dunno what caliber to suggest. I think AR's fix everything, but that is how my brain is wired. You might be well served with one of the ruger 308 scout rifles, or even a lever gun in 357 since you have a revolver of the same caliber.

[bae]

1) I don't see much successful "scavenging" really happening in most scenarios. If you *are* in those scenarios, I bet you'll be able to scavenge weapons too, a la "Red Dawn".

2) I think you should therefore procure whatever supplies you reasonably expect to require *ahead* of whatever events you are concerned about.

3) There may be some utility in using ammunition as trade goods, it really depends on the circumstances. I wouldn't spend a lot of time or money stockpiling ammo to use as PAW currency though, I suspect there are better options. In truth, I have used ammo as barter currency in recent times, there's quite a local demand here for .380ACP and M1 Carbine, and supplies have been spotty, and I've paid some local tradesmen for work in ammo, and they've been happy to get it.

4) I can see some utility in selecting weapons that use ammunition that is common in your area, simply for ease of logistics even during good times. I mean, I love my 12mm Gyrojet, but buying ammo even now is a real PITA.

5) I can see great utility in simplifying your ammunition choices. I didn't follow my own advice, and end up stocking > 2 dozen calibers. Focus

[Kutter_0311]

Foxx, do you own a rifle? If not, I'd start looking into it.

I'm trying to decide which rifle(s) would fit into my situation. I don't plan on bugging out of my home, it's rural, we have 5 acres, good neighbors, a cistern, septic system, a fireplace, and it's just better here than heading for the hills, IMO.

A shotgun or handgun seems better for HD and SD. I just don't know which way to plan, as far as my first rifle. Even if it was Zombies, shooting just attracts more and more Zombies.

Shooting certainly gets people's attention. Are your neighbors the sort that would come to your assistance if they heard shooting? Either way, it'll be over by the time they get there, unless they have the range/accuracy to support-by-fire...

I agree that you'll most likely be best served by bugging in. That said, is your house a defensible structure? There will always be the possibility of a disaster that could drive you out, so it's still good to plan on mobility.

You have a .357 revolver, so a .357 lever rifle would make a practical companion. How much would a few thousand rounds of .357 cost to build up? My general purpose rifle is the AK, I have one for my wife and one for me. Spare rifles/parts can be a practical investment.

4) I can see some utility in selecting weapons that use ammunition that is common in your area, simply for ease of logistics even during good times. I mean, I love my 12mm Gyrojet, but buying ammo even now is a real PITA.

You can't find 12mm Gyrojet at your local Wal-Mart? I thought I saw a pallet of it at Sam's last week...

[Silent Kube]

I doubt neighbors in a rural area would think much of gunshots. I used to live in one and it wasn't uncommon to have to scare off/eliminate pests at night. In the daytime we were shooting all the time.

[Kutter_0311]

I doubt neighbors in a rural area would think much of gunshots. I used to live in one and it wasn't uncommon to have to scare off/eliminate pests at night. In the daytime we were shooting all the time.

There is a big difference between gunshots and a gun fight.

[UndeadInfidel]

This is why it's called "prepping". Never plan to rely on someone else's ammo, food, water, or whatever stocks.

I'd also suggest stocking up on punctuation while you're at it.

[Einher]

FYI - I have taken the liberty of cleaning up your post a bit.

I hear A LOT of guys talking about getting a .223 or a 40 s&w because the military and law enforcement uses them

There are many advantages to adopting common ammo used by military and law enforcement, but the next idea is not one of them.

...so they think that they can just walk into a base or local pd and just grab a couple thousand rounds and be set.

I imagine they strongly encourage the public to use the ammo vending machines in the lobby, instead of requesting it from a teller at the window?

I see multiple errors;
First, the places would be well protected.

They have to be well protected; after all, it seems some people tend to associate bases and armories as being places to reload their guns in the event of an emergency.

Second, if they're out scavenging I think they could only carry so much

Another case of 'Oregon Trail': "You found 2500 lbs of ammo, but you can only carry 200 lbs of ammo back to your wagon."

Third, those places would have been wiped clean right?

Or it could be burned to the ground, or be booby trapped, or locked up tighter than Fort Knox, or occupied by a group of frightened police and military who are no doubt better armed, have better accuracy, have more ammo, have full access to their armory and terrain and are surrounded by a growing and increasingly hostile mob of bottle throwing rioters demanding the ammunition for their guns they know that base/armory has and by god we're not leaving until we get it!

[Kutter_0311]

I'd also suggest stocking up on punctuation while you're at it.

This is good advice for anyone who claims to have a working knowledge of the English language!