Will the armor plate rated for...

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Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by MaxRite » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:35 pm

.30 cal stop 7,62x39? What about 5,56?

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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by VeniVidiVici » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:55 pm

MaxRite wrote:.30 cal stop 7,62x39? What about 5,56?

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Depends on the rating. Some are ranked to stop .308 but not .30 M2 AP.

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_ ... vels.shtml <---This is a good "basic" website for getting a brief look at the NIJ ratings. There are pics there showing a variety of rounds failing to penetrate at 25 yards on the same plate. The sample included SS109, 7.62x39, and 30-06 AP.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by MaxRite » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:45 pm

The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by nimdabew » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:46 pm

MaxRite wrote:The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
That is old armor.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by MaxRite » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:11 pm

nimdabew wrote:
MaxRite wrote:The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
That is old armor.

Yup.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by VeniVidiVici » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:15 pm

MaxRite wrote:The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
This one? http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... 24039.html

I personally wouldn't trust it. I know the military specifically designates between "M2 AP/Armor piercing and the standard ' M2 ball'" ammo so I would have to assume this vest isn't rated for AP.

Here is another site that describe the ballistic nylon construction. It mentions only mentions "ball ammo."http://books.google.com/books?id=PqwkBF ... AP&f=false I'd imagine the nylon has degraded over time depending on storage and sun exposure. :?:
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by MaxRite » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:22 pm

VeniVidiVici wrote:
MaxRite wrote:The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
This one? http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ ... 24039.html

I personally wouldn't trust it. I know the military specifically designates between "M2 AP/Armor piercing and the standard ' M2 ball'" ammo so I would have to assume this vest isn't rated for AP.

Here is another site that describe the ballistic nylon construction. It mentions only mentions "ball ammo."http://books.google.com/books?id=PqwkBF ... AP&f=false I'd imagine the nylon has degraded over time depending on storage and sun exposure. :?:

Yes, thats the armor I got. It isnt deteriorated though. Came in the original box and looks (and even smells) like new. If I had two of them, I'd gladly test it... but I only got one. :(
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by crazycathed » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:50 am

this is for handgun and frag protection. I have armor that's rated 3a with plates rated for multiple small arms strike or single strike 762 level 4. is this just soft armor or do you have the ceramic inserts?

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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by AKFTW » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:53 am

If it's rated for 7.62x51, it will stop 7.62x39, and maybe 7.62x54R. Probably not 5.56 though, as many plates that DO stop one flavor of 5.56 won't stop another, such as Steel plates that will stop 55gr but not 62gr, and HDPE plates that are vice-versa.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:34 am

MaxRite wrote:The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
Short answer? No. It's 40+ years old and rated to stop an unspecified caliber in the neighborhood of .30 something. Don't trust it to stop anything. Even if you do track down which .30 loading it is, keep in mind that today's M855 (5.56) will likely shred it, and the same goes for more modern (more powerful) steel core loading of older cartridges.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by JesterODX » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:56 am

Doc Torr wrote:Short answer? No. It's 40+ years old and rated to stop an unspecified caliber in the neighborhood of .30 something. Don't trust it to stop anything.
+1 for this.

Your not gonna get perfect protection by any "modern" armor out there. But any modern, military grade is gonna be better then something from the 70's. Plate carriers and plates arent overly expensive now days but If you think you will need body armor, look at it like insurance. Cheap insurance doesnt give you the coverage you may need and leave you in the hole financially. Body armor is the same way, if you need it and skimp, it may leave you in a hole.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by nimdabew » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:58 am

Doc Torr wrote:
MaxRite wrote:The problem is, I dont know what rating said armor plate has. The instructions and the label on the back says "rated to stop .30 cal ball". The plate is part of 1970 military issue "Variable-Type Armor".
Short answer? No. It's 40+ years old and rated to stop an unspecified caliber in the neighborhood of .30 something. Don't trust it to stop anything. Even if you do track down which .30 loading it is, keep in mind that today's M855 (5.56) will likely shred it, and the same goes for more modern (more powerful) steel core loading of older cartridges.
This. If you have NOTHING else, it will stop bullets better than your jacket and t-shirt will. But beyond that, don't expect three hits with AP rounds in the chest.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Bearcat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:56 am

Armor is out of my knowledge base, so forgive me if this is wrong, but doesn't armor "expire" after a time like 10 years or so? I thought it was something along the lines of the chemical bonds breaking down.

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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by nimdabew » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:01 pm

Bearcat wrote:Armor is out of my knowledge base, so forgive me if this is wrong, but doesn't armor "expire" after a time like 10 years or so? I thought it was something along the lines of the chemical bonds breaking down.
From what I understand, this is with typical usage, not armor stored in a cool dry place not being flexed or damaged through normal use.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Nutpantz » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:57 pm

A leo once told me that used kevlar armor is better than new because as it ages and Is used the weave gets tighter..
I expect it's an old white shirt tale to extend the use of old equipment.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by ancient_serpent » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:09 pm

No, armor does not get better with age. Cheese and wine, yes, armor, no.
For instance, an IOTV that has been subjected to sweat, dirt, folding, dropping, improper storage and tempreture extremes is slightly less likely to protect you to the full extent of it's rating than a brand new one.

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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by flsgear » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:40 pm

The age debate may not be that important given the part that actually stops the 30 cal round is either going to be steel or ceramic.

A little research shows me that it uses ceramic/fiberglass composite. Unfortunately composites are difficult to tell how they age.
If it's all you have, it's definitely better than nothing. I saw it's supposed to stop a 7.62x25 at the muzzle, which is pretty good. The only modern equipment I've seen that has approximately the same protection are special threat plates, which generally are 3A (Pistol, shot, buckshot) rated, but with a "not quite Level 3, but more than Level 3A" factor. I have a 2nd chance T15 threat plate which is rated to stop:
30 cal ball (sound familiar?)
7.62x25
9mm KTW
Shotgun Slugs

and has a little blurb on there how it can stop 5.56 or 7.62x39 rounds at distances over 100 yards or if coming in at an angle.
Given what we know about your plate, I'd feel it's probably safe to assume around that level of protection. *edit - if it was new. Since it's not... it's the BEST you could hope for but probably less than that.*

The longer distance you go out, the less likely it is to penetrate.

So sure, at 10 yards it might not stop an ak-47.. but at 100, it's possible. Best medicine is to never find out though. If you're looking for a real solution, you can get a plate carrier and some more modern plates and just wear that over the nylon flak vest. Or buy a flak vest/3a vest too.

Most importantly though: Always remember you're using 40 year old equipment and it's not going to behave as if it's new.

On a plus note you have a really cool (and possibly rare) piece of militaria :)

(side note, I'm a bulletproofing geek so thanks for the research material. I might add it to my essay on bulletproofing@ http://www.flsgear.com/baessay.doc)
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Bender711 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:48 pm

The armor from the 70's wasn't all that good. if all it is rated for is 7.62x39, that is the only rifle round it will stop, and that's only a maybe at this point. There exists a massive gap between even the hottest pistol round and rifle rounds. It should stop pistol rounds, but you can get much better armor for that for next to nothing.

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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by AKFTW » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Sell it to a collector and get some modern rifle plates.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Unorthodox » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:02 pm

AKFTW wrote:Sell it to a collector and get some modern rifle plates.
This.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Kutter_0311 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:02 am

AKFTW wrote:Sell it to a collector and get some modern rifle plates.
Oh, fuck yeah.

I'd use web gear from the '70's without worry, but body armor is a whole different story.

Why hump heavy-ass old shit that may work, when you could save up for lighter new shit that will work?

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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by flsgear » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:22 am

Upon checking further - the plates were of variable weight. Depending on the plate you have, it might only stop (when brand new) a 30 cal round @ 100 yards (YEEK). So yeah, ditto on the selling/buying of new stuff. From what I've seen that getup is worth about 200. If you hunt around you can find a good deal on a plate carrier + plates for around that much.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Jeriah » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:54 am

You've got New-In-Box Nam era body armor? That's GOT to be collectible. I'll echo what everybody else is saying: set it to a collector, and buy some modern shit.
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Re: Will the armor plate rated for...

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:23 am

Nutpantz wrote:A leo once told me that used kevlar armor is better than new because as it ages and Is used the weave gets tighter..
I expect it's an old white shirt tale to extend the use of old equipment.
It is. With age and use, as well as UV exposure, the fibers will loosen and deteriorate, and the plates with get microfractures. Thing of the plates the way you would concrete: the old34er it is, the more use it's seen, the more it will crumble and "dust" away. Think of the kevlar weave (soft armor) like any other cloth. With use, it will wear out, and the UV and chemical reactions take a factor. Because of the nature of the fiber, the kevlar will actually cut itself on the other threads as they move.
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