Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

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Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Trent » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:30 pm

In a graphic (insanely graphic, as a matter of fact) novel series called Crossed*, a survivor is shot by a "crossed" attacker. He escapes lightly wounded, but later begins to sicken. Later, a scout from the camp witnesses a group of Crossed gathering ammo and rolling it around in a bucket filled with infected blood, saliva, and other "bodily fluids." :shock: She races back to camp, but arrives too late to prevent the infected man from killing his caretaker.

The entire concept creeps me the hell out. I know people have done it with arrows and blowdarts,but bullets? Is it an actual threat? Not thinking of zombie flu; but more along the lines of sewage, HIV+ blood, LSD, etc.



*Think semi intelligent 28 Days Later infected crossed the Reavers from Firefly, with a heavy dosage of meth and rape. Not for the faint of heart, or stomach.

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:45 pm

Idk about poison but I don't think a virus or disease could survive the heat or the pressure. On an arrow or some other missile it sure would be able to infect. I could be wrong, ask the mythbusters. :lol:
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by raptor » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:47 pm

Honestly I would be more worried about the sudden acute copper and lead poisoning than a bullet contaminated by rolling it in some toxic substance.

That said I imagine that a hollow point cavity could in theory be used to hold a toxic substance for delivery when it expands. However, I would be more concerned about the delivery mechanism than the payload...i.e getting shot.

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Vicarious_Lee » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:49 pm

I'm pretty sure bullets are sterile when they hit. Heat, pressure, and Hell maybe the viruses and shit that survive the bang get thrown off like kids on a merry-go-round with a Chevy Small Block attached to it. :lol:

It's probably hot enough to denature all but the most stubborn prions even if you could get them to hang on anyway. The reasons bullet wounds get infected is because of all the shit on your skin and clothes that they drag in with them.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Einher » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:43 pm

I too would rate the OP's concept/question as theoretically possible, but highly unlikely.

As others have already said, a hollowpoint would probably stand the best chance of carrying infectious material, but even still would be unlikely to spread infection any more dramatically than the bullet fragments themselves (and the bits of clothing and everything else they pulled into the target with them).

IMHO there is simply too much heat and pressure to have anything but a theoretical chance of poisoning a target with a pre-contaminated bullet once it is exposed to combustion temperatures, barrel friction, and a fair amount of air resistance.

A hypo from a tranquilizer gun is probably be the best vehicle for contagion or infection I can think of, though poisoned arrows and darts have obviously been around for centuries (which the OP mentioned), and the most common I am aware of is probably excrement smearing on the tip/shaft.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Jeriah » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:52 pm

It seemed plausible in Jaws, when I was about seven. Not so much anymore.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Illini Warrior » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:58 pm

#1 priority for the med team when a prez gets shot .... the utmost professional meds in the country have concern that a bullet might have dual purpose .... there's some kind of poison around that they figure will survive a bullet ride .....
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by fourway » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:00 pm

its sort of like worrying that you might get crushed by a falling tree that has lyme carrying ticks in it.
dont get crushed.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by fourway » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:02 pm

Illini Warrior wrote:#1 priority for the med team when a prez gets shot .... the utmost professional meds in the country have concern that a bullet might have dual purpose .... there's some kind of poison around that they figure will survive a bullet ride .....
Well yeah, but thats because presidential assassination bullets are made entirely out of tightly packed manchurian mind control nanobots.

Way to expensive to use on ordinary citizens.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Jamie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:05 pm

How about if my buddy is grappling/wrestling with a zombie, someone dumps a headshot into the ZED, and an oddly-deflected through-and-through inoculates my friend with the zombie virus...

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by raptor » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:08 pm

I did some quick research since I remembered that the Geneva Convention prohibited "poisoned bullets".

It seems there were many attempts to do this and rumors of use in for instance the US Civil War. However, it seems that the infections were more likely caused not by poisoned bullets but poor hospital hygiene and field packing the wounds with dirt to stop the bleeding. Can't imagine why that would not cause infection. :wink:

The AK-74 projectile was recently called a poisoned bullet.

However, what a lot of the developers found was that unless the projectile was launched very slowly the poison was destroyed by the firing process. Hence no poison to deliver.

I think this is really the only poisoned bullet I could document.
September 1978, London, England: Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov is killed by a ricin-filled poison pellet fired from an umbrella.


Note sure it was a pellet or a dart and even less sure if an umbrella is a fire arm.
Last edited by raptor on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by fourway » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:11 pm

Jamie wrote:How about if my buddy is grappling/wrestling with a zombie, someone dumps a headshot into the ZED, and an oddly-deflected through-and-through inoculates my friend with the zombie virus...

Jamie
you spelled zombie wrong?
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Jamie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:21 pm

fourway wrote:
Jamie wrote:How about if my buddy is grappling/wrestling with a zombie, someone dumps a headshot into the ZED, and an oddly-deflected through-and-through inoculates my friend with the zombie virus...

Jamie
you spelled zombie wrong?
I don't think that I did...but if I did I'm sorry...I'm using my iPad...

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Jeriah » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:26 pm

raptor wrote:I think this is really the only poisoned bullet I could document.
September 1978, London, England: Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov is killed by a ricin-filled poison pellet fired from an umbrella.


Note sure it was a pellet or a dart and even less sure if an umbrella is a fire arm.
It was a specially-made pellet, a hollow metal sphere full of holes, and tiny: think a near-microscopic Whiffle Ball. I don't know if the umbrella "fired" it or merely injected it.

But let's see: http://video.pbs.org/video/1355566832/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's a full episode, so, SPOILER ALERT, the pellet was propelled by compressed gas, possibly out of a syringe-like barrel that is actually jabbed into the target before firing.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by BHP » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:11 pm

Creating poison bullets isn't all that hard and there are all kind of poisons that could be used. Outside of assassinations there are few instances where I could imagine this might be worth the effort. None of those instances are in any way practical outside of a creative writing class but it is possible.

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by fourway » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:14 pm

Jamie wrote:
fourway wrote:
Jamie wrote:How about if my buddy is grappling/wrestling with a zombie, someone dumps a headshot into the ZED, and an oddly-deflected through-and-through inoculates my friend with the zombie virus...

Jamie
you spelled zombie wrong?
I don't think that I did...but if I did I'm sorry...I'm using my iPad...

Jamie
It looks like you wrote f-r-i-e-n-d when what you probably meant was z-o-m-b-i-e
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Jamie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:18 pm

fourway wrote:
Jamie wrote:
fourway wrote:
Jamie wrote:How about if my buddy is grappling/wrestling with a zombie, someone dumps a headshot into the ZED, and an oddly-deflected through-and-through inoculates my friend with the zombie virus...

Jamie
you spelled zombie wrong?
I don't think that I did...but if I did I'm sorry...I'm using my iPad...

Jamie
It looks like you wrote f-r-i-e-n-d when what you probably meant was z-o-m-b-i-e
Huh, nope, I meant what I wrote...a zombie gets shot while my friend is standing behind it...the bullet travels through the zombie and into my friend, coated with some zombie goo that ends up infecting my friend...that's what I meant, and that's what I wrote...sorry if it was unclear or stupid...it was just a thought...

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by AKFTW » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:19 pm

File them under the same category as mercury-filled exploding hollowpoints: pure hogwash.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by fourway » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:27 pm

fourway wrote:it looks like you wrote f-r-i-e-n-d when what you probably meant was z-o-m-b-i-e
Jamie wrote:Huh, nope, I meant what I wrote...a zombie gets shot while my friend is standing behind it...the bullet travels through the zombie and into my friend, coated with some zombie goo that ends up infecting my friend...that's what I meant, and that's what I wrote...sorry if it was unclear or stupid...it was just a thought...

Jamie
well its sad that you shot your ex-friend but its a good start that you've already shot the new zombie standing behind the zombie you were shooting at... now you just need to shoot the new zombie in the head and you can be on your way.

(see what I did there? I said "you spelled zombie wrong" because once your friend is infected he's a zombie... no sense thinking of him as your friend.)
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Jamie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:34 pm

fourway wrote:
fourway wrote:it looks like you wrote f-r-i-e-n-d when what you probably meant was z-o-m-b-i-e
Jamie wrote:Huh, nope, I meant what I wrote...a zombie gets shot while my friend is standing behind it...the bullet travels through the zombie and into my friend, coated with some zombie goo that ends up infecting my friend...that's what I meant, and that's what I wrote...sorry if it was unclear or stupid...it was just a thought...

Jamie
well its sad that you shot your ex-friend but its a good start that you've already shot the new zombie standing behind the zombie you were shooting at... now you just need to shoot the new zombie in the head and you can be on your way.

(see what I did there? I said "you spelled zombie wrong" because once your friend is infected he's a zombie... no sense thinking of him as your friend.)
Are you being purposely obtuse, or trolling?

You should read more (carefully) and drunk post less...just saying'...I didn't shoot him...

J

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by fourway » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:46 pm

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by sarky » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:41 pm

Anything sealed in the hollow point would survive the firing and would be spread upon the expansion of the bullet.
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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by MacAttack » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:41 am

If a virus can survive reentry inside a rock (and many scientists theorize this is how life travels from planet to planet) then poison and germs can easily survive being shot out of a gun.

Or passed from person to person by bullets passing through one victim, picking up something and depositing it into the next victim.


If the heat was to high for anything to survive then my old plastic cored 7.62x39 ammo used for indoor practice would have been useless. Since the plastic would have melted or caught in fire.

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Re: Poisoned & Infected Bullets?

Post by Grimstad » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:25 am

I once saw this local comedy troupe on public access doing an SNL / Mad TV type show. Scattered throughout the broadcast were these public service announcements from recovering BLAM addicts. Each one had his or her head wrapped in a bandana and were talking about the dangers of doing BLAM. BLAM is when you take a rock of cocaine, put it in a hollow point and shoot it straight into your brain. One of the funniest comedy bits I've ever seen.

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