Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

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gelgoog
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Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by gelgoog » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:18 pm

I know that firearms transactions are not allowed by paypal, but discreet transactions happen all the time.

I am very weary of using paypal and prefer to use money orders. I have a guy right now who agreed to buy one of my pistols and said he sent out a money order, but somehow he "screwed it up" and wants to pay using paypal instead. Sounds fishy, but it could simply be he does not have the funds and want to use a credit card or paypal's pay later service. Any way what are the risks of using paypal?

If I decide to do paypal how should I go about it to assure I am not stuck with a charge back or a debt on my account after I send the pistol?

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by Confucius » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:50 pm

Don't do it



I see this going like this...
He sends the money
You send the pistol
He reports that he never got the item, and gets his money back
You are screwed because you violated Paypal TOS



So yeah, I wouldn't do it.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:03 pm

^^^^^ What he just said.

Tell the buyer that a second money order would be fine, and you'll ship as soon as its cashed. CASHED, not deposited- don't let this come into contact with your bank accounts in any form other than a cash deposit. Worst case, he backs out of the deal- at least you can't get burned this way. Also, suggest he sends the MO with delivery confirmation.
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by Haji » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:29 pm

Lots of reports of PayPal screwing the seller when the buyer claims something didn't happen according to plan. Additionally, they'll arbitrarily close your account if they even think you might be violating their TOS, whether you actually are or not doesn't necessarily enter into the equation. I sold some mag pouches on Ebay, and they decided I was selling gun parts. They closed my account and tried to keep the money that was in there. They got $10 from me, but I was able to take the rest. PP and gun transactions have too many down sides to be worthwhile. There's always somebody else to sell a gun to.
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by gelgoog » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:05 pm

I am required to send the item before paypal will release the funds?

btw- I already told him no on paypal before I posted this, just curious as to how exactly it would go.

I mean assume he sent the money, I withdrawal the money and cash it in my bank ( I do not have my bank linked to paypal) then send the pistol.

He claims he did not receive item, then either gives him a charge back or freezes our accounts when they find out it was gun related. The only way they can charge me back is by putting a debt on my account and if they freeze the account would I even be responsible? Either way it is too confusing and too liable for scamming, just wondering.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by majorhavoc » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:22 pm

gelgoog wrote:I am required to send the item before paypal will release the funds?

btw- I already told him no on paypal before I posted this, just curious as to how exactly it would go.
So now you know. Just don't. People successfully transact business through money orders all the time. It's not difficult, not when a minimum wage staff manning the customer service counter at a grocery store anywhere in the country can walk Forest Gump and his good friend Bubba through the process.

So exactly how did this guy 'screw up' a money order again? Is he honestly saying that he managed to unsuccessfully give said sum of money to a MO purveyor and yet somehow still thought he obtained a nonexistent MO? Or that he did get the money order but mailed it to the wrong address? Because the only way he'd know that for sure is if the payment was returned to sender. In which case, what's stopping him from just putting it in a new, properly addressed envelope?

The way I see it, there are really only two possibilities here. Either:

1) This guy is an idiot, or

2) He's a scammer.

You can still do business with the idiot, but since he's already revealed himself to be one, tell him in simple words, using short sentences that hey, every one can make a mistake, but your time is money, and there are plenty of other interested buyers out there who know how to close a deal. If he can't assure you that he has a valid money order in the mail to you by the end of the following business day, you're going to put the item up for sale again.

And if this guy suddenly grows an intellect in response to that, and starts spouting terms like "offer and acceptance" or "breach of contract" tell him the offer was always conditioned on seller's terms of payment and on the covenant of good faith dealing on the part of both parties. Proposing an illicit form of payment (Paypal) and resorting to threats of bad feedback or legal recourse just irrevocably moved his "acceptance" of your offer outside of the bounds of good faith dealing.

Tell him to knock himself out pursuing any grievance. You're well within your rights to revoke the offer of sale.

Don't screw around with this. I don't know why gun transactions seem to attract more than their fair share of F-ups, but they do. Don't run the risk of getting stung.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by Phoenix David » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:06 pm

I see no mention of a FFL in the thread. is this an in-state sale? C&R pistol? You do know that you can't mail it directly to him?
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by gelgoog » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:35 pm

Phoenix David wrote:I see no mention of a FFL in the thread. is this an in-state sale? C&R pistol? You do know that you can't mail it directly to him?
I have done well over 100 transactions through gunbroker, so yes I know the process. This guy wanted to bid on the item but "thought" that it required a credit card. It only requires a credit card to start an account (which I am pretty sure you need to send messages through gunbroker anyways). So he asked if he could just send a money order instead of going through gunbroker, so I accepted and ended the auction early without any bidders. 5 days after he says the money order went out he tell me he screwed up (that was all) and asked if we could do it via paypal instead.

So yea his whole story is pretty fishy and either he is just an idiot or a scammer.

I have no idea where this guy lives to be honest. He was supposed to send a money order with the FFL included. Then when I asked about him sending the MO a few days later he said it went out but was still confused by the FFL thing..... :?

I will more then likely relist it if I do not hear from him again this evening.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by Unassigned » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:43 pm

A lot of people will demand Paypal as a gift, this can not be refunded. I still would not recommend this, as many have already stated, people get screwed when the buyers abuse the Paypal system.

Stick with a postal money order and ask for a copy of his DL. I insist on this each and every time I do an online transaction.
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by dukman » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:54 am

The ONLY money order I will ever accept is USPS "Postal" money orders. These can be cashed at your local post office if they have enough money on hand, or they can usually verify it is legit before you go and deposit it.

My dad was burned on a money order one time for some eBay item.. he waited 2 weeks and didn't hear anything from the bank so he thought it was good. Week four he got the notice it had bounced :roll: And that was a MONEY ORDER, not a check...

I don't trust Paypal one bit, or Pay-Up-Pal as it is known in some circles. They always side with the buyer, and then charge you $10 for acting as a mediator in any dispute. If you try to be sneaky and take the money out of the paypal account right away, they will just take it from your linked bank account. If that doesn't work they will send out the bloodhounds (debt collectors)
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by northernxposure » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:54 pm

Unassigned wrote:A lot of people will demand Paypal as a gift, this can not be refunded. I still would not recommend this, as many have already stated, people get screwed when the buyers abuse the Paypal system.

Stick with a postal money order and ask for a copy of his DL. I insist on this each and every time I do an online transaction.

I've used the PP Gift option a lot. Never had one issue with any of my transactions - communication, communication, and research. Hard to do on an auction type site, but very easy to do on a forum. A few minutes to do some back checking of posts and history will tell you a fair amount about a person. Nothing wrong with PO/MO, a lot of people prefer to deal with those as well - just make sure they know there will be a shipping delay.

Fold your foil hat how ever you like - but gun related items + PP = no go in my book.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by pyratemime » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:34 pm

There is an abundance of websites all over the net to explain why you should never use paypal for anything ever.
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by Tribunal Power » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:48 pm

My parents sold a $10,000 trailer over paypal.

When Paypal saw the amount of money, they froze the account because it was "an unusual transaction". It stayed frozen for months, close to a year I think. My parents eventually contacted attorneys and it wasn't until Paypal was officially threatened with legal action that they released the money. Even then they tried to tack on feed for a high expense processing. More legal threats, and my parents got their money back, but had to pay a few legal fees for what the attorney did.

If they caved to legal threats, it means their TOS and other stuff like that probably isn't airtight. They strike me as a little shady. It's a calculated risk, I guess.

When all was said and done, my parents wasted a ton of time, and one out-of-state vacation was months delayed. They were behind on oher payments for essentials that the extra money from the trailer was supposed to cover. It was a complete fiasco and caused other subsequent disasters.

It was the first and last time they ever used Paypal. I ONLY use paypal for small expenses, out of convenience, and I do so with the knowledge that paypal reserves the right to buttfuck me and take my money at any given time. It actually says that in their TOS, no lie.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by shoggoth80 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:43 am

I wouldn't even try it. I know that this is just a speculative action on your part... but it's a bad idea given their policies.
Small parts, bullets etc... no problem... those aren't firearms. But for an actual pistol, or a rifle for that matter.... nuh-uh.
How did he mess up the MO? Address it wrong? Have cold feet?

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by gelgoog » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:35 pm

shoggoth80 wrote:I wouldn't even try it. I know that this is just a speculative action on your part... but it's a bad idea given their policies.
Small parts, bullets etc... no problem... those aren't firearms. But for an actual pistol, or a rifle for that matter.... nuh-uh.
How did he mess up the MO? Address it wrong? Have cold feet?
His wife apparently was the one who sent it out to a family member on accident. He claims they are trying to get the money order back.

I put the gun back up for sale, and told him that when he gets the MO back he can resend it to me and I we can continue the transaction. Otherwise I am done wasting time on him.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by greenbeetle » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:02 pm

He can just report it as lost, pay a small fee then send you another one.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by Artiz » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:48 pm

PayPal is officially anti-gun.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by gelgoog » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:56 pm

greenbeetle wrote:He can just report it as lost, pay a small fee then send you another one.
That is what I told him, but he has yet to respond. Of the 100 or so transactions I have done through gunbroker, he is by far the most suspicious and/or most idiotic person I have ever had to deal with.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by CitizenZ » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:20 am

Sounds like a scammer looking for a dope. Too many red flags already. If he can't figure out how to get this far, without lying, I would have low confidence the rest of the deal will work out either.
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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by gelgoog » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:58 am

CitizenZ wrote:Sounds like a scammer looking for a dope. Too many red flags already. If he can't figure out how to get this far, without lying, I would have low confidence the rest of the deal will work out either.
If I can get a money order out of him, then all the power is in my hands. Paypal just makes things too hard to work with.

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Re: Firearms and paypal...what are the risks?

Post by kbi » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:30 pm

Paypal = the devil , anti gun ( ebay )




When I use to sell my no luv for firearms I use to ask for either a USPS money order's or certified check . Now I just drop them off at my friends store and ask him to sell him for me = no hassle & very simple.



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