Why 5.7?

[Gixxer1237]

Really? For a long arm its pretty much a 22 hornet. For civilians it doesn't do anything as well as the .556. And the 556 is not a famous man stopper. Ammo is rare(ish). In a pistol you got something the sized of a dessert eagle that while it has no recoil also has less energy than a 9mm, and is probley less effective(debatable). Only good side is you get a pretty good amount of ammo in either form.

I can even undestand the liking of the P90 because its a compact bullpup, but in all honesty it offers nothing really as a defensive rifle. Range is short, wind will push bullets all over, and its underpowered. Why the love of this round? The "magical" ability to punch thru a bullet proof vest? and round loaded with a simular projectile will do that. The explosive exppasion of the hollow points? Ever see what a 223 v-max does?

Not looking for a fight, just someone to tell me there reason for liking it. so tell me why it rocks for you. We will talk this out. I am willing to eat crow.(taste like chicken)

[Cpt. MelonBuster]

The only place I think it's really good is in a subgun (see "P90"). 50rnd mags of armor piercing kick-ass in a platform shorter then the usual subgun favorite, the Mp5.

That said, we can't get Class 3 P90s or AP 5.7, so the point is moot.

[KentsOkay]

What Melon sad.

[bae]

I think the "ammo is rare and expensive" argument doesn't really hold water.

I've never had a problem having factory 5.7x28 ammo delivered to my doorstep in case lots within about a week of order, at reasonable prices. Fully functional performance loads from Elite Ammunition for the 5.7x28 can take a month or so, but, so what? Plan ahead.

That said, I don't see any pressing reason to leap into the P90/P90S/FiveSeven pool, there are other more common solutions that work. They sure are fun though.

[Cpt. MelonBuster]

I think the "ammo is rare and expensive" argument doesn't really hold water.

This part is kind-of true. You can find the FN ammo pretty much anywhere, at .45 prices. However, to get a good defense load you have to order online.

EDIT: Also, to the OP. I mean no offense by saying this, but try not to make posts just one big block of text. It makes people want to just skip through your post.

[bae]

What I'd like to see is a nice small bolt-action in 5.7x28, maybe one of those snazzy CZ 527 carbines. It would be a fun companion piece.

I suppose someone makes a Thompson Contender barrel in 5.7.

Hmmm, now you've got me thinking.

[Cpt. MelonBuster]

What I'd like to see is a nice small bolt-action in 5.7x28, maybe one of those snazzy CZ 527 carbines. It would be a fun companion piece.

I suppose someone makes a Thompson Contender barrel in 5.7.

Hmmm, now you've got me thinking.

I think a compact bolt 5.7 would actually make a great little varmint gun.

[PistolPete]

Why not? Not every caliber is the best at anything, or really that great overall. Of the hundreds of common calibers very few are really optimized for their job. You could just as easily ask WHY? about .32h&r mag, .327mag, .41mag, .50ae, 257 roberts, 300 savage, 6.8 spc, 7mm-08, 325wsm, etc, etc. Every cartridge made fills a niche, and people find a niche that they desire and buy a gun. That's how it always works.

What does 5.7 offer? It's a cartridge developed for modern bullets that is very efficient and offers minimal recoil. The ammo is relatively affordable and available. It seems well suited to target practice and varmint control. Plus, it's new and neat. People like that.

The question I always have when I see these threads is "why do people like to nitpick cartridges that aren't their favorite", but I guess the answer to that lies deep within human nature.

[NoMercy]

What I'd like to see is a nice small bolt-action in 5.7x28, maybe one of those snazzy CZ 527 carbines. It would be a fun companion piece.

Not exactly compact, but Savage is making a bolt in 5.7. I think it would be pretty sweet.

[Gixxer1237]

The ammo isn't the issue it was. But of all my local dealers its really hit or miss. But you can get anything over the internet.

I can see if someone had a class 3 SBRed one that could be a lot of fun.

I honestly wasn't sure if I was missing something. I'm a gun guy and have shot one, but on paper it doesn't seem to impressive. The whole 'punching thru armor" thing was against pistols. Both the 5.56 and 7.62x39 make it look like nothing. Anything that will stop 5.56 will stop 5.7.

If you got a P90 or what ever and like it rock on. Join in and say what you like.

[Cpt. MelonBuster]

The ammo isn't the issue it was. But of all my local dealers its really hit or miss. But you can get anything over the internet.

I can see if someone had a class 3 SBRed one that could be a lot of fun.

I honestly wasn't sure if I was missing something. I'm a gun guy and have shot one, but on paper it doesn't seem to impressive. The whole 'punching thru armor" thing was against pistols. Both the 5.56 and 7.62x39 make it look like nothing. Anything that will stop 5.56 will stop 5.7.

If you got a P90 or what ever and like it rock on. Join in and say what you like.

I think the general consensus is for the Gub'ment, it's possibly a good round that fills a niche. For us lowly civilians, it's a fun-gun round.

Also, In before TerryGecko.

[Gixxer1237]

The reason I asked is I have seen a bunch of post about someone getting a 5.7. Every cartridge you mentioned is good at its intended role. The 5.7, yep, at a gun for Non coms that may need something better than a pistol. But as a main battle rifle caliber, or even assult rifle caliber, I (thats me) find it lacking. I can say the same thing about several other calibers.
The reason I asked was 2 fold.
1) seeing if I missed something, or if its just the cool factor.
2) to keep conversation going and learn
c) just to let people who do not study guns, ammo, and all know what I know about it. It was designed from the get go as a underpowered cartridge to give people who don't need a assult rifle. To replace sub guns and pistols at that role. And that the magic some people seem to believe about its ability to punch thru armor is misleading. It was designed to do that better than PISTOL cartridges, not rifle rounds.

[Cpt. MelonBuster]

Look at it as a submachine gun caliber. Rifle caliber capabilities in a pistol caliber cartridge.

[Gixxer1237]

Who is terryGecko?

[Cpt. MelonBuster]

Our 5.7 fanboy.

[Regular Guy]

The 5.7 puts out 340fpe. Not bad but not great. The 5.7 is designed to use quantity approach to incapacitation. It's also designed to be an AP rd for admin, aircraft crews, arty troops, etc. It was never designed to be nor ever intended to be an assault rifle cartridge.
It is a PERSONAL DEFENSE cartridge and designed to have very low recoil, utilized in a lightweight weapon and very flat shooting. At this role it is well suited.
There are better cartridges than the 5.7 for personal defense but none of them are as light nor are they easy recoiling. So if you need a gun the has a lightweight and has a deep magazine, the 5.7 isn't horrible.

[crypto]

I got to shoot PistolPete's 5.7 AR pistol yesterday and its fun as hell.

No recoil, 50 rounds on tap, its awesome. When he turns it into a SBR its going to probably the most fun semi-auto Ive shot in a long time.

[Kelvar]

For civilians it doesn't do anything as well as the .556. And the 556 is not a famous man stopper.

Sorry, I just had to say,

[crypto]

For civilians it doesn't do anything as well as the .556. And the 556 is not a famous man stopper.

Sorry, I just had to say,

LOL, Cue the Cooperites: HURR 49 YEAR FAILURE. AND STILL FAILING STRONG.

5.56 has been our main-issue cartridge for longer than .30-06, and in a few years for longer than .30-06 and 7.62x51 combined.

I wonder if that will make people shut up about it being a capable cartridge or not.

No, probably not, now that I think about it. It'll probably take the last of the old-guard Cooperites dying of old age.

[BeTheBall]

The reason I asked is I have seen a bunch of post about someone getting a 5.7. Every cartridge you mentioned is good at its intended role. The 5.7, yep, at a gun for Non coms that may need something better than a pistol. But as a main battle rifle caliber, or even assult rifle caliber, I (thats me) find it lacking. I can say the same thing about several other calibers.
The reason I asked was 2 fold.
1) seeing if I missed something, or if its just the cool factor.
2) to keep conversation going and learn
c) just to let people who do not study guns, ammo, and all know what I know about it. It was designed from the get go as a underpowered cartridge to give people who don't need a assult rifle. To replace sub guns and pistols at that role. And that the magic some people seem to believe about its ability to punch thru armor is misleading. It was designed to do that better than PISTOL cartridges, not rifle rounds.

You missed something.

I am not going to rehash all of the talking points that I normally do, but I will give you some bullet points:

* The five-seveN handgun hods 20 rounds in regular capacity magazines (30 rounders are available)
* It has very low recoil allowing for rapid follow-up shots
* it shoots flat to 100 meters
* standard "sporting rounds" come out of the 4.75" barrel at 1700fps
* civilian ammo is available at up to 2600fps out of the 4.75" barrel
* there is purpose built ammo that is available that is AP, tumbles, expands, etc...
* it is basically rifle performance out of a handgun

If you have concerns as to what even the "watered down" sporting round can do, look no further than what an untrained psychopath did in Ft Hood while being charged by soldiers who were throwing furniture at him. Additionally Brass Fetcher is currently in the process of reviewing some rounds from Elite Ammunition and I am certain that will once and for all shut the people up who want to compare the 5.7x28 to 22mag.

I'm not really sure why people who have never tried the round decide to try to belittle it using the same incorrect information that has been circulating the internet for years. Try it yourself. Test it yourself. Compare it side by side to .22, 9mm, .45 and then you can make statements.

I own and shoot (on a regular basis) these calibers: .22lr, 9mm, 40S&W, 45Colt, .357magnum, .45acp, .556, .308, 12ga and... 5.7x28. I choose to carry the Five-seveN all day, every day over the other rounds because I have used it and know what it can do. If you train with something else and feel comfortable with that, by all means rely on what you feel comfortable with - you will be most effective with that round/gun. But don't talk crap about a round that you have no first-hand experience with!

[TerryGecko]

The reason why I chose the FsN handgun as my CCW/go to gun for all things SHTF is simple. With handguns, the most important attributes you can have are accuracy, capacity, reliability, terminal damage, and penetration. The FsN is in a league of its own as far as combining all of these qualities. It's literally the only modern handgun that has 20-30 rounds, shoots as accurately as it does, has the ability to defeat almost any body armor, and is as reliable as any other service pistol out there.

When you compare handgun calibers, you are comparing one tiny hole to another slightly larger tiny hole. Shot placement is key and there is no such thing as "knock down power". Also, if your attacker is wearing IIIA (or below) body armor, your chances of coming out alive are greatly increased with a FsN. Is being attacked by someone wearing body armor likely to happen? No. But neither is being attacked by someone.

Any verifiable case where a 5.7x28mm round was used against a person/animal, it performed exactly how a quality handgun round should. Those who were shot in vital places died and those who weren't lived.

Just like BeTheBall explains in the post above, some 5.7x28mm round may enter through a small hole but they are meant to enter, turn 90 degrees, and tumble through the body. Length then becomes width and you see results more similar to 9mm.

Also, I don't know when the 5.7x28mm round started getting compared to 5.56 but it was never meant to be an assault rifle round. It's a PDW round. It should be compared to the likes of an MP5. Something that you can carry in a small backpack.

[BeTheBall]

And as far as price of the round goes - you can by a box of 50 SS197 rounds for about $18.50.

[Gixxer1237]

I have shot the 5.7. I've put enough rounds down range with it to realize its low recoiling. Its also pretty accurate. Out of a pistol I think its ok. I also compaired it with a 22 hornet, which is very fair.
I'm not going to get into the 556 being underpowered.
As a civilian my chances of surviving a attack against someone wearing 3a are low. I practice a lot with pistols. I agree shot placement is key. But since I can't get the magic bullets I'm screwed except for head shots.
As for carrying the five7, well some would argue it a huge gun. I will not. I carry a equally large gun(almost).
Apparently I angered you guys by bringing a topic to the surface to talk about.

ETA: I believe where I made the mistake was compairing it against the AR platform. My reasoning on that was while I know it was a PDW, its about the same size as a 16" AR. I guess as a civvy the thought of SMGs really never rises. I tend to think pistol & semi auto rifle. I would carry one instead of a MP5 all day.

[Kommander]

Erm Terry are your non AP 5.7 rounds going to do anything to body armor that more conventional calibers won't?