All purpose NFA questions thread

[hatchtrikk]

Alright guys, I think the time is coming for me to get a suppressor.

I'm only going to buy one for now so here is my dilemma.

Firearms I would like to suppress: Draco AK, 14mmLH thread, 7.62x39
10.5 SBR AR, standard thread
AKS74U, 24mm thread, 5.45x39
SGL21, 24mm thread, 7.62x39


Is there a 'one size fits all' or do I need to bite the bullet and purchase multiples?

[Regular Guy]

Alright guys, I think the time is coming for me to get a suppressor.
I'm only going to buy one for now so here is my dilemma.
Firearms I would like to suppress: Draco AK, 14mmLH thread, 7.62x39
10.5 SBR AR, standard thread
AKS74U, 24mm thread, 5.45x39
SGL21, 24mm thread, 7.62x39
Is there a 'one size fits all' or do I need to bite the bullet and purchase multiples?

IF, AND A BIG IF, you have a NFA friendly guns smith you could just buy a threaded 308 can and then get adapters. If you bought multiple cans you'd have to get a 308 for the 24mm, a 308 for the LH and a 5.56 for the 1/2x28. You could get a YHM 308 and get a LH and 1/2x28 YHM FH. That would cover that. I'm not sure about the 24mm but it sounds like you could run a 308 on both.

Big problem with the AK with the LH threads is that the Romanian guns can have non-concentric threads.

[hatchtrikk]

Concentric threads was on the list of things to do for InRange so I should be good there.

Primary Arms, my local shop, now stocks Huntertown Arms suppressors. I haven't seen any decent reviews of their 7.62 or 5.56 Kestrels. Those both come with 24mm adapters, but no QD for the AR.

I guess what I need is a 30cal can and someone to make adapters. That should suppress 5.56 pretty decently right?

[Regular Guy]

I guess what I need is a 30cal can and someone to make adapters. That should suppress 5.56 pretty decently right?

Should be within 2-3 dBs. After getting a threaded can I'm glad I didn't get a QD. I can swap my can with very little between rifle in about a minute.

[hatchtrikk]

Are there any issues with threaded cans carbon welding themselves onto the host rifle?

That's my only real concern and why I'm considering QD. I'm a low speed dood. Not gonna need to mount a suppressor in a hurry

[Regular Guy]

Are there any issues with threaded cans carbon welding themselves onto the host rifle?

Over blown hype. Drop some never seize on the threads or about 200rds break the can lose and re-tighten.

[JTNieman]

Are there any issues with threaded cans carbon welding themselves onto the host rifle?

That's my only real concern and why I'm considering QD. I'm a low speed dood. Not gonna need to mount a suppressor in a hurry

We just had out annual Birthday Bash / machine gun shoot.

We had assholes running my stainless cans until they were glowing, bulged from high pressure and baffle strikes, and failed. This was after many consecutive mag dumps near a Range Officer that didn't know to tell him not to be stupid on a can. It threaded off fine.

We also had cans on machine guns that were handled less violently, apparently, but with an obviously high round count in the thousands upon thousands of rounds. They came off just fine. A little muscle grease and it broke free, and no carbon what-so-ever is found in the threads. If the threads are cut properly, there should be very little way carbon can get into them. It can get into the first thread or two, if exposed a bit, but that's about it, and it will usually break free from the threads of the mating part pushing through it.

[hatchtrikk]

Thanks for the info JC. (Yes, I'll still be referring to you as JC. I'm not good with change )

[hatchtrikk]

I'm leaning towards this: http://www.huntertownarms.com/k762ak.php

Thoughts?

[Regular Guy]

I'm leaning towards this: http://www.huntertownarms.com/k762ak.php

Thoughts?

Looks win to me. I wish somewhere around here carried them, I want the 9mm one.

[JTNieman]

I'm leaning towards this: http://www.huntertownarms.com/k762ak.php

Thoughts?

They're good stuff. Good people, solid product. You won't be disappointed. I really like their can design, as well.

[nimdabew]

I'm leaning towards this: http://www.huntertownarms.com/k762ak.php

Thoughts?

They're good stuff. Good people, solid product. You won't be disappointed. I really like their can design, as well.

I really like their Kestral line. I would get a 5.56 can if I didn't already have my SPR/M4.

[hatchtrikk]

RG, JC and Nim.

On other forums, people mention that the user serviceable aspect of this suppressor is a flaw and that fully welded is the way to go.

Are these folks blowing smoke?

[JTNieman]

Are these folks blowing smoke?

IMO? 99% yes.

[Regular Guy]

RG, JC and Nim.

On other forums, people mention that the user serviceable aspect of this suppressor is a flaw and that fully welded is the way to go.

Are these folks blowing smoke?

Yes, pure smoke. That's like saying threading is a poor way to assemble something and everything welded never fails. My only can is a thread on and it's not seperated from the barrel.

[nimdabew]

There are pluses and minuses to the Kestrel can.

Plus:

- You can clean the baffles. Some might not consider this a good thing, but fuck em. If you have one can that you use for 5.56 and .22lr then this is a very good thing
- It is cheap. I would feel not that bad for abusing this can if I knew I could get new baffles for it any time I wanted, funds pending of course.
- You can swap the baffles around so you can have up to 5 different blast baffles
- Total weight for this can will be less than a similar can with a mount. I believe that the kestrel 5.56 can is 21 ounces. The SPR/M4 is 21 plus a 6 ounce mount. The M4-2K is 19 oz plus a 3 ounce mount. Did I mention it is cheaper? You don't need to buy a seperate mount for the kestrel can.

Minuses:

- It is a stainless can instead of iconel. The metal isn't as strong as iconel, but you make up for it in cost and the ability to swap baffles at will
- It looks kinda ugly?
- You need to make sure that the parts of the can are tight while shooting. It might be common to have a threaded sup[pressor back off. I don't know; I own one suppressor.
- You will get internet hate for having a can that does 80-90% of what higher priced cans do for 50% of the cost.

[JTNieman]

I find the stainless holds up pretty damned well. I am not sure what alloy they're using for their baffles... they won't divulge it, and I don't have one in my hands to really perform any tests on it to try and find out. However, a day of abusive full auto seemed to have been simply shrugged off with a yawn by the initial front baffle.

Like you said, too, you can just rearrange the baffles if the front one gets a little eroded - like any can you can disassemble.

We use inconel/monel for the initial entry/contact point for the hot gases and superheated carbon on our monocore suppressors specifically because with a monocore, you obviously cannot rearrange the baffle stack.

[Regular Guy]

Alright after much investigation and hate sent my way I finally got a straight damn answer on 22LR in 5.56 suppressors. The large majority said 22LR is dirty, well, fuck, what's wrong with dirty? No one could answer.
Then one fine chap answered in a coherent manner. Lead. Yupe, if you shoot too much 22LR in your 5.56 can it will eventually fill with lead. Copper wash helps, but it still leads. It has very little to do with carbon but everything to do with lead. That's why shooting 22LR a lot is bad for sealed cans.
Now, can you shoot a little 22LR in a 5.56 can, sure, the next round of 5.56 you run through it will blow it all out. However, if you shoot around 3000 rds of 22 LR through it your basically turning you 5.56 can into a paper weight.
Now, if you have a 100% 5.56 titanium or stainless can or one that is user serviceable, you can open it and clean it or put it in "The Dip". The "DIP" is 50% Distilled White Vinegar, and 50% Hydrogen Peroxide. The Dip eats aluminum and carbon steel.
Therefore, if you want to run 22LR in a 5.56 can get ones that Ti or stainless. If not, get a user serviceable 22LR can for the job.
Now, I'm going to knock off shooting 22LR in my 5.56 and save up for a S/S 22LR can. I really don't need another paperweight.

[Regular Guy]

Okay, I cleaned my can with carbon cleaner. Okay, so if lead is the issue and carbon ain't no thang to clean out, what about lead free 22LR?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/290011 ... -lead-free

Problem solved, problem staying solved?

I'm going to order some, see what's up.

[northernxposure]

Alright stupid question time. Usually I've got a decent understanding of these things, but something is amiss with this in my mind:

I've got a friend that's contemplating selling me his SBR'd Uzi as he will be taking possession of a FA MAC and doesn't really need another PCC now that he's got the real deal. I expressed interest, but was under the impression that as it's NFA we couldn't do the standard F2F transfer that's legal in WI. Unless I'm way off base, it's a $200 stamp for the transfer, not a 5$ stamp as he's not technically a manufacturer (although he was the one that reg'ed it and put on the Israeli 10" poly barrel).

He seems to think that if he puts the 16" barrel back on it he can transfer it to me without the stamp - I say no, it's a reg'd receiver now and has to go through the hoops because I've grown fond of my anus over the years.

While I don't really need a PCC, UZI + 10" threaded poly barrel + folding stock kit that someone else dumped the money into with me needing to spend it on dress up has me all

Opin?

NXP

[Regular Guy]

That would be a form 4 transfer.

Here's the form: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

No, putting a 16" barrel on it DOES NOT make it a NON-NFA item. Once a NFA item, ALWAYS a NFA item until it's receiver is destroyed. Yes, it's a $200 fee. He must retain the item until you receive the tax stamp and only then may it be transfered.

If he's selling it for under $1000 it's a smoking deal, if it's an IMI it's pure gold. Who's the original manufacturer?

[Greg Focker]

Alright stupid question time. Usually I've got a decent understanding of these things, but something is amiss with this in my mind:

I've got a friend that's contemplating selling me his SBR'd Uzi as he will be taking possession of a FA MAC and doesn't really need another PCC now that he's got the real deal. I expressed interest, but was under the impression that as it's NFA we couldn't do the standard F2F transfer that's legal in WI. Unless I'm way off base, it's a $200 stamp for the transfer, not a 5$ stamp as he's not technically a manufacturer (although he was the one that reg'ed it and put on the Israeli 10" poly barrel).

He seems to think that if he puts the 16" barrel back on it he can transfer it to me without the stamp - I say no, it's a reg'd receiver now and has to go through the hoops because I've grown fond of my anus over the years.

While I don't really need a PCC, UZI + 10" threaded poly barrel + folding stock kit that someone else dumped the money into with me needing to spend it on dress up has me all

Opin?

NXP

You're correct. He cannot sell you his SBR (no matter it's configuration at the time of sale) without doing an NFA transfer. Give the feds $200, wait 6-7 months, pass GO, do not go to jail.

[nimdabew]

That would be a form 4 transfer.

Here's the form: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

No, putting a 16" barrel on it DOES NOT make it a NON-NFA item. Once a NFA item, ALWAYS a NFA item until it's receiver is destroyed. Yes, it's a $200 fee. He must retain the item until you receive the tax stamp and only then may it be transfered.

If he's selling it for under $1000 it's a smoking deal, if it's an IMI it's pure gold. Who's the original manufacturer?

Ehh that's not entirely true. If you get rid of the aprts to make it a SBR, you can then revert it back to normal legal 16" status and have the item taken off the NFA list and sell it normally. It is then just a rifle like every other rifle out there except it is engraved on the side or it might not be.

You can take possession of the gun (but not the 10" barrel) and then put the paper work in to make it an SBR, have it reengraved, and then put the barrel back on (assuming your friend doesn't have another non-SBR Mac10 or whatever it was) and then have it be a new SBR. Now, if your friend has the 10" barrel and a non-NFA Mac10 or Uzi receiver, he would be in possession of a NFA item through constructive possession and would be in violation of the law.

[Liff]

Problem solved, problem staying solved?

I would suggest the the problem is not solved, and further, not staying solved. (Trying to joke back.)

The lead that leads up the inside of the cans comes from the gas inside of the barrel. Lead melts at about 650 degrees, so the lead melts a little bit and then lead oxide gas particles are sent out of the barrel and begin to coat the inside of the can. Tin melts at around 450 degrees, so I would assume that the tin projectiles will deposit proportionally more volume of metal (obviously not mass) compared to lead only projectiles. For what it is worth, the lead comes from the base of the bullet, which is right next to the powder and heat, and not so much the sides, so copper jacketed does not dramatically help the situation.

Let us know what happens either way.