Looking for an UZI

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ista_hota
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by ista_hota » Sat May 09, 2009 2:25 pm

Fair enough. In all honesty I've never owned an Uzi - have shot a couple, but never owned. To me though, weight and sight radius are the biggest selling points for a carbine of the type - as has been stated, if I want an 8-10lb gun I'd sooner have a rifle. I kinda see the Uzi in this category along with the MP5 - it's a great gun in the original configuation, but without selective fire and a short barrel (remember some states wont let you SBR it) it is, to me PERSONALLY, redundant weight.

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by gelgoog » Sat May 09, 2009 2:54 pm

right, its not something your going to bug out with, not something you want to haul around. If I had to bug out I would just assume grab my M1917 enfield or M1 garand since I live in high desert/mountains. Yet for home defense (as a SBR) or fighting in a urban environment it would do just fine. Even as a semi-automatic you'd be surprised to fast you can fire the darn the thing.

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Domino » Sat May 09, 2009 3:29 pm

gelgoog wrote:
ista_hota wrote:Sub 2k with Glock 18 mags beats a non SBR Uzi in everything but coolness factor, imho.

4lbs unloaded, stows to 16" OAL, longer sight radius, stupid cheap, lifetime warranty.
cool, but you can store that uzi with the barrel off, the slap the barrel in and throw on the nose cap if your looking for compact carry. sub 2k is not exactly even close as far as durable contruction goes, its not a proven design and glock mags are not cheaper then uzi mags. The only advantage the sub2k has is price and weight. reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, sights, mags, durability, proven design, aftermarket mods etc all go to the uzi. I have had both, and there is a reason I still have the uzi.

Image
Nice setup! I don't think anyone here would argue that the S2k is as durable as the UZI but, having shot both pretty extenisively I have to respectfully disagree with some of your post. I don't know how durable the S2k is but I think they will last a pretty long time as long as you aren't nose diving the gun into the ground every 5 minutes. Is the S2k a combat weapon? No it is not but that does NOT mean it wouldn't do a good job in a short-term SHTF scenerio. I don't think you can say that the polymer isn't strong enough to handle typical use. I mean mine hasn't fallen apart yet!

As far as the "proven design" goes well the S2k hasn't really been around long enough to have but a fraction of the track record that the UZI does. Not to mention that the S2k is only made in relatively small numbers and there can't really be that many of them out there. Nevertheless, the action of the weapon is incredibly simple and is very similar to the Sten submachine gun which does have a good reputation. I have had my S2k for about 4-5 years now and I have put several thousand rounds of mostly steel case ammo through mine. It has only malfunctioned with one type of ammo EVER, and that was Brown Bear 147g JHP which would FTE every other time. This weapon may not be "battleproven" but mine has prooved itself to me and it is an accurate and very reliable weapon.

And as far as the "accuracy, sights, and mags" go I have to side on the (my) Subby as well. Granted the stock sight aren't great but after I put on an aftermarket steel AR-15 type front sight my subby is a real joy to shoot. It will produce 4-6 MOA easy and 4-5" groups a easily achievable in rapid fire at 25 yards. In several hundred rounds I couldn't do this with an UZI on burst or semi. The sight picture on my S2k is better than the UZI and with the longer sight radius it is inherently more accurate. And I have to say that Glock magazines are really hard to beat as well. UZI mags certainly aren't junk but if I were to wager on which would last longer I think I would have to side with the Glock mags every time.

This is only my opinion but I do think the S2k will easily do 90% of what the semi-auto UZI carbine will do at half the price. I understand you didn't like yours, nor did I when I first got mine. But I have to say, after many many shooting sessions and lots of trigger time my S2k has turned out to be a real gem of a gun and I would still buy it over again instead of a semi-auto UZI. Thats not saying I don't have any love for the UZI cause I do, but for MY purposes I just don't see an UZI bieng able to do anything better than my S2k.

If I ever go to Idaho or if you ever come down to South Carolina we should take out or 9mm's and do a side by side shoot out and report on it! This dispute must be settled like gentlemen... :wink:

EDIT: some pics of mine...
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the weapon shown slinged, and folded...
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shown concealed under a heavy winter coat...
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Trioxin » Sat May 09, 2009 6:01 pm

I've wanted an UZI since I was 12 for no other reason than it is 100% bad-ass. FIgure I had better get one while I still can.
I have MANY other weapons to choose from, this one is just because I want it. :twisted:
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Trioxin » Sat May 09, 2009 6:03 pm

Domino wrote: Image
"You talkin to me?" :lol:
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by gelgoog » Sat May 09, 2009 6:34 pm

Domino wrote:
This is only my opinion but I do think the S2k will easily do 90% of what the semi-auto UZI carbine will do at half the price. I understand you didn't like yours, nor did I when I first got mine. But I have to say, after many many shooting sessions and lots of trigger time my S2k has turned out to be a real gem of a gun and I would still buy it over again instead of a semi-auto UZI. Thats not saying I don't have any love for the UZI cause I do, but for MY purposes I just don't see an UZI bieng able to do anything better than my S2k.
were you firing a open bolt or closed bolt uzi? There is a big difference in accuracy between the two.

One thing that I really hated with the sub2k was the placement of the charging handle, I thought it was quite awkward. But my dislike for the sub2k stems more from an incident I don't want to bring up on these forums again :roll: Now I am not saying the sub2k is a POS, far from it...it just did not do anything for me. If I wanted a cheaper option then the uzi, I would probably go for the Marlin Camp 9.

I think the sub2k has a special niche market, and for me that would be the briefcase, truck carbine that is cheap enough that if it gets stolen that it wont matter a whole lot.
Domino wrote: If I ever go to Idaho or if you ever come down to South Carolina we should take out or 9mm's and do a side by side shoot out and report on it! This dispute must be settled like gentlemen... :wink:
its a deal :wink:
Domino wrote: EDIT: some pics of mine...
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yea, I can see yours works pretty darn well for ya, nice mods.

here is some uzi concealed carry :)

Image

Image

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Domino » Sat May 09, 2009 8:20 pm

Trioxin wrote:I've wanted an UZI since I was 12 for no other reason than it is 100% bad-ass. FIgure I had better get one while I still can.
I have MANY other weapons to choose from, this one is just because I want it. :twisted:
No doubt bro, I really don't think you can go wrong with one as long as you have realistic expectations of what the weapon is capable of. Just be sure to post some pics and give us a good range report when you get it. P.S., sorry for the thread hijack as I never meant to bash your decision to buy an UZI, you should definately get what you want. I just try to help provide other members here with my personal experiences which may or may not help in the decision making process. Good Luck.
Trioxin wrote: "You talkin to me?" :lol:
whoah, I look fat in that pic! Your not calling me fat are you?
gelgoog wrote:
Domino wrote:
This is only my opinion but I do think the S2k will easily do 90% of what the semi-auto UZI carbine will do at half the price. I understand you didn't like yours, nor did I when I first got mine. But I have to say, after many many shooting sessions and lots of trigger time my S2k has turned out to be a real gem of a gun and I would still buy it over again instead of a semi-auto UZI. Thats not saying I don't have any love for the UZI cause I do, but for MY purposes I just don't see an UZI bieng able to do anything better than my S2k.
were you firing a open bolt or closed bolt uzi? There is a big difference in accuracy between the two.
I am aware that the closed bolt UZI's are more accurate and the only one I have fired was open bolt so I guess my experince isn't 100% relevant. Although, I take it you have a closed bolt semi-auto thats been SBR'd? Please provide us with some accuracy tests as I am sure many members here (including myself) would be very interested in seeing some groups with various 9mm ammunition. It should also be noted that the UZI is a breeze to convert to different calibers, unlike existing PCC's on the market.
gelgoog wrote: One thing that I really hated with the sub2k was the placement of the charging handle, I thought it was quite awkward. But my dislike for the sub2k stems more from an incident I don't want to bring up on these forums again Now I am not saying the sub2k is a POS, far from it...it just did not do anything for me. If I wanted a cheaper option then the uzi, I would probably go for the Marlin Camp 9.

I think the sub2k has a special niche market, and for me that would be the briefcase, truck carbine that is cheap enough that if it gets stolen that it wont matter a whole lot.
Yeah, my uncanny memory seems to remind me of an incident involving a window. :lol: The charging handle does take a little practice though. I've found that I can charge the gun with my left hand (even with the spare mag holder in the way) pretty damn quick with some practice. If you want I can provide some vids of my reloading technique.

If you don't mind me asking, how many rounds did you put down range with your subby? Did you do any accuracy or functional tests after your incident?

EDIT:

That UZI CCW kit is so much frickin cooler than my setup. :oops:

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by gelgoog » Sat May 09, 2009 8:37 pm

I did not put nearly enough down range on the sub2k but my brother had it before me and even he sold it for a B&T TP-9

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Domino » Sat May 09, 2009 9:14 pm

gelgoog wrote:I did not put nearly enough down range on the sub2k but my brother had it before me and even he sold it for a B&T TP-9
Soo... No range reports on the UZI? What kind of groups do you get at 100 meters with it? Did you ever put the S2k against it at the bench? If not, how can you honestly say that the UZI is more accurate? WE need pics man!

EDIT: BTW you realize that you joined the ZS forums nearly 5 years after me and have almost twice as many posts as I do. Get a life man... :lol:

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by gelgoog » Sat May 09, 2009 9:49 pm

Domino wrote:
gelgoog wrote:I did not put nearly enough down range on the sub2k but my brother had it before me and even he sold it for a B&T TP-9
Soo... No range reports on the UZI? What kind of groups do you get at 100 meters with it? Did you ever put the S2k against it at the bench? If not, how can you honestly say that the UZI is more accurate? WE need pics man!

EDIT: BTW you realize that you joined the ZS forums nearly 5 years after me and have almost twice as many posts as I do. Get a life man... :lol:
havent shot it past 100 yards yet, will have to try it next time I take it out. I shoot out in the desert, no bench tests here :) kneeling and offhand all I can say is my groups were a lot tighter with the uzi. Its been a while since I actually measured them and might do it again next time I take it out. Sorry didnt bring my ruler :wink: The keltec I had, maybe because of those lame ass stock sights just did not shoot as well as expected.

ps: maybe you just need to contribute more :mrgreen: and I joined 3 years after you...way to count.

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by badgerdog » Sat May 09, 2009 11:14 pm

Domino where did you get all the accessories for the sub2000, especially the front sight post?

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Kommander » Sun May 10, 2009 2:58 am

I usually can get chest/head size groups at 50 yards with my Vector Uzi. It is closed bolt and has a 16" barrel. I really don't think one is going to see allot of difference in group size between the Uzi and the Sub2k. A year ago when I got my Uzi it was about $650 (yes I know that this is not consistent with my other posts, I just found the invoice and I was off by $100). For that price I think it is undeniably a better buy than the Sub2k. However as Vectors operations have been scaled back and Uzi prices are now $1k+ it is a harder decision.

Looking at just bang for the buck the Sub2k is obviously the cheaper gun, being about half the Uzis price. However 30 round Glock mags are about $30 right now whereas Uzi 32 rounders are about $10 used and $12 like new. After getting 10 mags for each gun your looking at $700-$800 for the Sub2k and 1100-1200 for the Uzi. The more mags you buy the more attractive the Uzi looks. As for the mags themselves one could probably beat a Glock mag to death with a Uzi mag as they are solid steel and quite well built. Lastly if one wants to SBR and/or suppress the thing the Uzi is the way to go. Both can be done with no more tools than your hands.

Anyway I think both guns serve a certain purpose and it is up to each buyer to choose what they want.
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Domino » Sun May 10, 2009 11:46 am

gelgoog wrote:
Domino wrote:
gelgoog wrote:I did not put nearly enough down range on the sub2k but my brother had it before me and even he sold it for a B&T TP-9
Soo... No range reports on the UZI? What kind of groups do you get at 100 meters with it? Did you ever put the S2k against it at the bench? If not, how can you honestly say that the UZI is more accurate? WE need pics man!

EDIT: BTW you realize that you joined the ZS forums nearly 5 years after me and have almost twice as many posts as I do. Get a life man... :lol:
havent shot it past 100 yards yet, will have to try it next time I take it out. I shoot out in the desert, no bench tests here :) kneeling and offhand all I can say is my groups were a lot tighter with the uzi. Its been a while since I actually measured them and might do it again next time I take it out. Sorry didnt bring my ruler :wink: The keltec I had, maybe because of those lame ass stock sights just did not shoot as well as expected.

ps: maybe you just need to contribute more :mrgreen: and I joined 3 years after you...way to count.
This is consistant with what a lot of others have said, its always something like "the UZI felt more accurate." The fact is that this isn't nearly scientific enough to make any sort of real determination of which one is more accurate. There are two ways to look at a weapons accuracy... 1.) shoot the weapon from a bench to determine the "potential" accuracy and 2.) shoot the weapon from a variety of field postions to determine the "practical" accuracy. Obviously, a 9mm rifle isn't a bench gun so practical accuracy is going to be the most important determination although potential accuracy is still good to know. I strongly believe that the Sub 2000 has more practical accuracy potential than the UZI soley based on sight radius alone, it has 16" of sight radius while the UZI has what like 10" or so?

This is sort of like how the M1 Garand (which was a 3-4 MOA rifle) had more practical accuracy than the K98 Mauser (which was more like a 1-2 MOA rifle) because the M1 had peep sights and a longer sight radius. The same principals would probably be applied here.

If your Sub 2000 shot a whole lot worse than your UZI then I would venture to say that more trigger time would have probably changed that. Obviously, you had little interest in the gun so thats cool, but I have a problem with people making these UZI accuracy "claims" that are totally unfounded.
badgerdog wrote:Domino where did you get all the accessories for the sub2000, especially the front sight post?
Here is the breakdown:

KT Sub 2000 with G19 grip - $300
Blue Force Gear BTP front sight - $100
LaserMax UniMax Laser sight - $150
Streamlight M3 Tac Light - $100
(6X) Glock 33 round magazines - ~$150
KT Mag Holder - $25
KT Sling - $10
KT Picatinny Rail - $20
Tacticool bolt tube cover - $10
Tacticool operating handle cover - $5
Hogue Handall Jr - $5

Total comes to right around $875. Obviously if you cut out the laser and tac light you are at a nice $625 or so since most of that shit is unecessary anyway. Even at $900 my gun is still cheaper than what UZI's are going for right now and mine is ready to go do some room clearing.
Kommander wrote:I usually can get chest/head size groups at 50 yards with my Vector Uzi. It is closed bolt and has a 16" barrel. I really don't think one is going to see allot of difference in group size between the Uzi and the Sub2k. A year ago when I got my Uzi it was about $650 (yes I know that this is not consistent with my other posts, I just found the invoice and I was off by $100). For that price I think it is undeniably a better buy than the Sub2k. However as Vectors operations have been scaled back and Uzi prices are now $1k+ it is a harder decision.

Looking at just bang for the buck the Sub2k is obviously the cheaper gun, being about half the Uzis price. However 30 round Glock mags are about $30 right now whereas Uzi 32 rounders are about $10 used and $12 like new. After getting 10 mags for each gun your looking at $700-$800 for the Sub2k and 1100-1200 for the Uzi. The more mags you buy the more attractive the Uzi looks. As for the mags themselves one could probably beat a Glock mag to death with a Uzi mag as they are solid steel and quite well built. Lastly if one wants to SBR and/or suppress the thing the Uzi is the way to go. Both can be done with no more tools than your hands.

Anyway I think both guns serve a certain purpose and it is up to each buyer to choose what they want.
So which is it? Chest sized groups or head sized groups? Bench or standing? Neither or particularly impressive at 50 yards. And again with the "claims" that there isn't going to be an accuracy difference between these guns, totally unfounded. My subby can get 2-3" groups at 50 yards from a bench, offhand its more like head sized groups or so. Chest sized groups don't start opening up until I shoot offhand with rapid fire at 100 yards...

Also as far as the mags go, you can make the arguement that the Glock 33 rounders are expensive but the whole point of the S2k is that it can already use the pistol magazines you have laying around, so there really doensn't have to be any additional magazines purchased. This is back on the whole "practicality" of the S2k over that of the UZI, you use the S2k as part of a "package" that includes your sidearm. I bought the Glock 33 rounders because they handle better in the rifle than the G19 15 rounders, and because they were highly praised in their reliablity. Its still nice to know my subby can take my G19 mags in a pinch.

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Kommander » Sun May 10, 2009 1:45 pm

Like I said it's going to be a personal choice, If someone already has a bunch of Glock mags then the Sub2k is probably going to be great for them. I don't own a Glock so I would have to buy all new mags like I did with the Uzi. As far as the accuracy goes I gave you a really rough estimate. I have not shot the thing outside recently and don't remember too clearly how well it did. I treat the thing primary as a range toy and most of my shooting is at 50 yards outside, 75 feet inside, and almost always standing. As far as Uzi accuracy vs a Sub2k they are both shooting a 9mm out of a 16" barrel with pep sights. I can't imagine that there would be a whole hell of allot of difference. The sight radius on a Uzi is just over 12". From what I can tell on a stock Sub2k it's about 16"+. This might make it more accurate, but at the ranges we are talking about I think it's going to have a hell of allot more to do with the shooter than the sights.

Personally I think the whole pistol caliber carbine thing is a bit of a waste as a serious fighting gun. They will certainly work, but I would much rather pay the extra money and get a true military style semiautomatic mag fed rifle like a AR or AK.
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by gelgoog » Sun May 10, 2009 11:45 pm

you know domino, can't you just let us have our pipe dreams about how awesome the uzi is....don't come in here with your "facts" and "evidence"! We did not buy the uzi because its a super killa weapon...wheres my phone cord! :mrgreen:

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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Trioxin » Mon May 11, 2009 10:03 pm

Trioxin wrote:
Domino wrote: Image
"You talkin to me?" :lol:
No, not caling you fat, this pic just reminded me of Taxi Driver. Don't worry man, I stand in front of my mirror and pose with guns to. :twisted:
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by prebans » Wed May 13, 2009 7:35 pm

MacAttack wrote:Post your request here.

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Many manufacturers and dealers are members and watch daily.

Just make sure you mention Full auto or Semi Auto. They will assume FA.
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by TheGunslinger » Wed May 13, 2009 7:39 pm

Ok. So now we have the Uzi 9mm covered.

Any advice on a Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by claren » Wed May 13, 2009 7:43 pm

TheGunslinger wrote:Ok. So now we have the Uzi 9mm covered.

Any advice on a Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
How about a long-slide .45 with a laser the size of a medium-sized flashlight on top of it ? :mrgreen:
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Trebor » Wed May 13, 2009 9:04 pm

TheGunslinger wrote:Ok. So now we have the Uzi 9mm covered.

Any advice on a Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
Hey, just what you see pal.
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Trebor » Wed May 13, 2009 9:45 pm

Ok, since we are on the subject, I just had to post some pics of my Schmoozi.

I needed a tax stamp to get her, and she's not a SBR. You do the math.

Here's a shot I took for a T-shirt illustration for a project another member is producing.

Image

This was the night before my last range trip. Unfortunately, all that ammo turned out to be a bit too short to run correctly in the gun. Now I gotta unload all those mags by hand!

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Here she is with the wood stock. I have the folder installed right now, but I do put the wood stock on now and then.

Image

And this was from my first range trip with her a couple years ago.

Image
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Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by prebans » Wed May 13, 2009 10:19 pm

Here's my pre-86 DS Uzi SMG:

Image

I bought this one sight-unseen because it was the least expensive one that I could find. It turns out that I got lucky. REALLY lucky. This is a sterile Uzi. Mine is one of 12 that was brought in for the US Secret Service in 1969. No make, no model designation, no importer designation, serial number is on the wrong side of the gun in a script that IMI never used, no caliber... The parts are all original except for the top cover spring (replaced it two years ago when it went bad at a cost of $1.50). The original bakelite horizontal grips are in a drawer. I stuck on the vertical foregrips because they're more safe for use when renting to unfamiliar shooters. (Hands slipping forward of the barrel always make me nervous.) The Secret Service also chopped a little bit off of the barrel so it'd fit into a brief case.

I've located only one of the other 12. It's held by a dealer in Louisiana. (Mine came from Illinois.) The other 10..? Who knows?

So yeah, there is a chance that this is my Uzi in this picture:

http://hk94.com/images/uzi-secret-service.jpg

Wish I could prove which gun that agent was carrying that day...

The suppressor is a GemTech Mossad II. See http://www.gem-tech.com/mossad.html for more information. It attaches by replacing the existing Uzi barrel nut. I'm very pleased with its performance. While the MK-9K's tone pitch is a little nicer (lower), it's 3x as heavy. I didn't want to put up with that excess weight, especially if I picked up a Mini Uzi (pictured on GemTech's site) later on. Maybe a Micro some day.....

Anyhow, the Uzi is a superb choice. It was tough enough for the Israelis, a group of people surrounded on all sides by folks who aren't too fond of them. The gun will function with minimal care, will tolerate sand and crap, and will generally just keep on chugging along when other more expensive SMGs crap out. Mine is 40 years old this year. With the exception of ONE malfunction (a $1.50 top cover return spring broke after 38 years of use), every issue has been related to bad ammo or a bad mag. Spare magazines and spare parts are still cheap and plentiful. Recoil is minimal and it's surprisingly accurate. Some in the industry have called it the "girlfriend gun," as women don't seem to mind shooting this low recoil, easy firing SMG compared to Macs, M16s, etc.

Of everything in my collection, my Uzi would be the LAST thing to go.

Mike
"The arms business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
-With apologies to Hunter S. Thompson

prebans
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Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Living Dead

Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by prebans » Wed May 13, 2009 10:42 pm

Kommander wrote:
Nechro wrote:To much L4D? Just kidding.
Just don't fire the damn thing with the stock folded. I really hate that...
Are you kidding? There's no better way to camp it up at the right ranges!

Occasionally I see various questionable people engaging in activities like sideways shooting, rapping while/between shooting, yelling "POP POP IN YAH DOME!" while shooting, etc. This is when I quietly retrieve a 32 rounder for my Uzi, hold it TIGHT into my side, and take out the center of a silhouette target with one long burst. By the time my Uzi falls silent, people have stopped what they're doing and are staring in my direction. While the gun is still smoking (I bought a mess of surplus 9mm with FILTHY powder), I rack the cocking knob back to check for clear, look directly at the questionable people, and say one thing that they always understand.

"Word..."

I have no idea what that means, but they always respond with an awestruck and/or enthusiastic "Fuck yeeeeaaah" or "Word, yo."

Mike
"The arms business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
-With apologies to Hunter S. Thompson

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Kommander
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Looking for an UZI

Post by Kommander » Wed May 13, 2009 11:55 pm

prebans it means that you agree with the general sentiment of their statement.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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