Weapons for dummies?

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Gatorfarmer » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:36 am

Hunter's safety classes are either free, or low cost, in most states. These will provide basic information about firearms safety, terminology, and use.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by AmirMortal » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:18 am

Paragon wrote:
AmirMortal wrote:My personal pet peeve is when a writer calls some thing by the obviously wrong name.
My biggest pet peeve is the clueless morons in Hollywood that threaten someone at gunpoint with a semi-auto or pump shotgun, then when they really what to get their point across, they rack the slide to chamber a round. :?

Jim
Yep, and it's even better when they do this more than once in an encounter...and no rounds fall out!

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by firerat » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:49 am

AmirMortal wrote:
Paragon wrote:
AmirMortal wrote:My personal pet peeve is when a writer calls some thing by the obviously wrong name.
My biggest pet peeve is the clueless morons in Hollywood that threaten someone at gunpoint with a semi-auto or pump shotgun, then when they really what to get their point across, they rack the slide to chamber a round. :?

Jim
Yep, and it's even better when they do this more than once in an encounter...and no rounds fall out!
Ahhh Hollywood. The only place car doors make good cover, revolvers hold 12+ shots, shooting gas tanks ALWAYS make the car explode, and the good guy never misses until he shoots at the boss.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Kalash_NICH_ov » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:31 pm

As said before, dont bother and write about what you know. even though you might have an excellent weapons research spot, it will still come through in your writing that you dont know much.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by rburch » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:09 pm

Kalash_NICH_ov wrote:As said before, dont bother and write about what you know. even though you might have an excellent weapons research spot, it will still come through in your writing that you dont know much.
It depends, as a writer it is possible to write about weapons if you don't know everything about them. As Long as you don't try to sound like you know everything about them. If you stick with brand, model, and caliber, and have a basic knowledge of how the things function you'll be fine.

One other thing to remember, Make sure your characters aren't supposed to be experts in firearms if you aren't If they have only a basic knowledge of firearms, then you only have to have a basic knowledge.

If however your characters include a custom gunsmith, a IDPA champ, and a gun store owner, then you had better be one of those yourself, or some other expert on guns.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Impus » Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:18 pm

Check out the "Colorado Happenings" thread and see what the 8-12 of us in the Front Range area are up to. Happy to have you along on a shooting trip sometime soon.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Dagger6 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:28 pm

Think about it! You've already got a wealth of knowledge and experience here, and your soaking in it. Utilize the people on the forum who already know where your coming from. I'm sure no one here would mind you PM'ing them or posting a query on the forum. You got guys like DavePal, Doc Simon, Army of Darkness, and even myself, etc. among the many others here. We're all glad to share the wealth or we would'nt be here any way. Good Luck and Happy Hunting! :mrgreen:
PS: Can't wait to read it!!



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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Browning 35 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:45 pm

one_ofmany wrote:Would there be a good book or website that might outline the different types, their ammo, general uses and class? (Class= hunting, military etc..)
I know of two books which will get you started.

1) The Boston Gun Bible. This is seriously a book that every gun owner should own at least one copy of. It not only gives you tons of valuable information in a what to buy and why guide, but it also gives you several essays on liberty. Even if you know nothing about guns going in, you'll know quite a bit coming out and this book won't talk over your head using a bunch of shooting terms that you're not familiar with. Check it out.

2) Armed Response : A Comprehensive Guide to Using Firearms for Self-Defense . This entire book is geared towards people that are new to firearms and firearms related techniques. It might as well be titled 'Guns and Self Defense Techniques For Dummies'.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by JibbaJabba » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:48 pm

rburch wrote:
Kalash_NICH_ov wrote:As said before, dont bother and write about what you know. even though you might have an excellent weapons research spot, it will still come through in your writing that you dont know much.
It depends, as a writer it is possible to write about weapons if you don't know everything about them. As Long as you don't try to sound like you know everything about them. If you stick with brand, model, and caliber, and have a basic knowledge of how the things function you'll be fine.

One other thing to remember, Make sure your characters aren't supposed to be experts in firearms if you aren't If they have only a basic knowledge of firearms, then you only have to have a basic knowledge.

If however your characters include a custom gunsmith, a IDPA champ, and a gun store owner, then you had better be one of those yourself, or some other expert on guns.
As a corollary to this, I vaguely remember a "professional wrestler" years back whose gimmick was that he was a skateboarder punk or something - he carried a skateboard with him to every match, used it to whack people upside the head, rubbed their faces in the grip tape. But the fans hated him.

Why? Because they knew his gimmick was fake. He never rode the skateboard. He didn't know how. :mrgreen:

Don't be that guy. :wink:
Last edited by JibbaJabba on Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by painiac » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:01 am

JibbaJabba wrote: As a corollary to this, I vaguely remember a "professional wrestler" years back who whose gimmick was that he was a skateboarder punk or something - he carried a skateboard with him to every match, used it to whack people upside the head, rubbed their faces in the grip tape. But the fans hated him.

Why? Because they knew his gimmick was fake. He never rode the skateboard. He didn't know how. :mrgreen:

Don't be that guy. :wink:

Wait a second... a wrestler that was fake?!

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Brendan Sullivan » Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:13 pm

Movie crap to avoid:

-Firefights usually only last a few shots and occur at distances of feet and inches, not yards and city blocks.

-Recoil will not knock you on your ass.

-Shotgun pellets do not spread out into a huge pattern that allows the shooter the luxury of not aiming.

-Birdshot does not penetrate human flesh at common distances.

-There are very few times someone is shot and drops immediately out of the fight. Central nervous system hits and some heart/spine/liver hits cause enough blood pressure drop to fell someone within seconds. Angry or drugged perps will often keep shooting after being hit multiple times.

-Hollow points are not a magical do-all, they are bullets with a hole in the front that makes them expand when they strike. They do not penetrate body armor.

-Any rifle round will penetrate body armor.

-Anything you saw a sniper do in a movie is a fallacy.

-Bullets keep traveling through car doors, people, building walls, trees, etc.

-Nobody can hit a tiny target like a human head with a handgun under real-life firefight conditions.

-Very few people carry or use the Desert Eagle handgun. The .50AE is a chipmunk compared to most largebore rifle ammunition.

-Anything you saw on CSI is embellished. Look up the stats for real-life ballistics databases. Very few bullets or casings are matched from crime scenes to stored data.

-There are no ceramic pistols. Glocks used to be the big plastic guns on the block, but now everybody makes one. And the outer frame is the only part that's plastic. The thing still has a metal barrel and it lights up like Rudolph's nose in a metal detector.

-Discharging a firearm indoors is deafening and can cause permanent hearing loss. Shooting outdoors ain't much better and hearing protection is always recommended.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by JibbaJabba » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:38 pm

-There are most definitely swords that shoot guns.

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bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by DryGrain » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:08 am

:shock: WTF is that JibbaJabba, and where do I get one?!
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by JibbaJabba » Sat Oct 18, 2008 1:10 am

DryGrain wrote::shock: WTF is that JibbaJabba, and where do I get one?!
S.W.O.R.D.S.

Basically a tracked remote-control robot with a camera and an M249 SAW.

Great idea, until Hadji runs up behind it and kicks it over. :lol:


How do you get one? Join the Army. :wink:
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bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by SMoAF » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:07 am

Brendan Sullivan wrote:-Recoil will not knock you on your ass.

>snip<

-Birdshot does not penetrate human flesh at common distances.

>snip<

-Any rifle round will penetrate body armor.

>snip<

-Anything you saw on CSI is embellished. Look up the stats for real-life ballistics databases. Very few bullets or casings are matched from crime scenes to stored data.
Regarding recoil knocking you on your ass: It depends. I'm a very large person, and have fired a 70 pound + single shot rifle while prone on concrete that physically moved my entire body back more than 6 inches per round fired. It didn't feel much worse than a 12 gauge, but it did indeed move me. Anybody who was strong enough to fire that gun in any position other than prone would amost certainly be knocked on his or her ass. Of course, the gun I fired was a papered DD chambered in a round used by the US Military for "point defense" to knock down incoming air to ground missiles, so YMMV.

WRT Birdshot: Depends on what you call "common distance". At 100 yards, not so much. At under 10 yards, you're potentially in real trouble.

WRT body armor: Depends on the round and the armor. A "II-A" vest will not stop a great many rifle rounds. A "IV" will stop some, but not all.

WRT CSI: Ballistics are very useful in criminal cases in which both a firearm and a projectile have been recovered. If you've got the bullet and it isn't too damaged, and you have the gun that you think it came from, you can prove yourself right or wrong. This is highly useful, obviously. Additionally, if you have a fairly undamaged projectile, you may be able to rule out certain entire classes of firearms. Example: If you have a bullet that was fired from a gun with a 5 groove right hand twist, you know that a gun with a 6 groove left hand twist could not be the gun that it was fired from.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Brendan Sullivan » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:50 am

While I stand by my generalisations as good enough for someone writing a piece of fiction, and for the most part representative of reality, SMoAF is 100% correct in proving there are real-life exceptions.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Paragon » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:07 pm

Brendan Sullivan wrote:Movie crap to avoid:

-Anything you saw on CSI is embellished.
I've only watched the show once or twice, although they film most of the outdoor scenes in the foothills surrounding our former neighborhood (at the end of Pico Canyon in Stevenson Ranch).

WTF is with these monkeys on the show wearing sidearms? Every forensic tech that I've ever known was unsworn, and the closest thing to a weapon they had access to was a mechanical pencil.

Jim

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by thorian » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:22 pm

All the ETU's in STL are sworn officers of the law. They are cops first and forensics second. There have been a couple times where the ETU caught the bad guy coming out of some secret hiding spot that the original officers overlooked.


Revolvers dont have magazines.

Please dont make the people use 9mm revolvers. Sure it is technically correct for the hero or badguy check the (moon) clip on his 9mm revolver.

But to the reader checking the cylinder of a .38 is more concise and does not annoy the reader. If the person is checking the cylinder they really should be removing empty's and stuffing fresh cartridges.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by MacAttack » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:38 pm

Unlike Holly wood.
Make sure your characters run out of ammo once in a while.

Not just in the fire arm but totally.


No one can carry all the ammo they both want or need. But some will try.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by JibbaJabba » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:01 pm

Better yet, make them run out of ammo, attempt to find replacement ammo, and find the /WRONG/ ammo.
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bonanacrom wrote:I found that if your 6 feet tall and weigh 260 pounds and answer the door naked with a big shit eating grin on your face you get to control the conversation right from the beginning.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by congochris » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:18 am

Hunter's safety classes cost a whopping $5 here in CO, and I saw an 8 year old boy pass it when I went. It's extremely basic in regards to firearms, but it's $5. that's just hard to beat. And you even get the fun of popping off 10 rounds of .22 out of a single shot rifle. It ain't much, but we're talking training wheels here.

Other than that, I try to completely avoid the Denver area whenever possible. I spent too many years driving through that town on the way to my (now ex) mother in laws house in boulder, and I-25 traffic makes me wish I could have a turret mounting machine gun on my truck for just one day. :evil:

Down here though, there's Dragon Mans. I think you're able to rent firearms there. Also the club I belong to, but it's members only and not even remotely a good deal for someone who would have to commute 60+ miles to shoot.

I'll second Impus, check out the CO threads, the north folks like to go shooting quite a bit, especially Jvandenhaus. There's the guy to talk to about gaining experience shooting different weapons.

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by Squidi » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:14 pm

Not to belabor any of the points made but also you should keep an eye on your editors. A book I am reading, which so far has been fairly vague but accurate on gun stuff mentioned that the "snipers were taking positions with 3.08 rifles".

The new sniper rifle, made by Howitzer.

The author ( judging from the rest of book ) probably did it right and then the editors saw .308 and "corrected it" because all of the other guns listed in the book have 2 digits after the decimal ( .45,.32,.22 etc.. ), or the spell checker caught it and thought its $3.08

Good luck

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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by donjulio » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:31 pm

painiac wrote:
JibbaJabba wrote:Looking at that diagram, if it matches what 5.56 NATO looks like in cross-section, the actual bullet is surprisingly small. :shock: It's hard to imagine something so tiny doing so much damage.
It IS small. A 5.56mm round is .223 inches. The .223 projectile is only a hair wider than an itty bitty little .22 bullet. Of course, .223 has a LOT more kinetic energy than a .22, and the military's 5.56 version has more power than a commercial .223.
.223 was originally considered to only be useful as a varmint round (for shooting little animals), and that's what it was designed for. Needless to say, many people balked when it was suggested that such a tiny projectile should be our military's primary small arms ammunition.

There's a good reason for it, though. When the first fully-automatic battle rifles were developed, it was immediately discovered that the large rifle ammunition in use at the time, with its bucking recoil, made accuracy after the first round impractical to impossible. Research was done into wounding factors and fatalities during WWI and WWII, and it was decided that the greatest combat effectiveness would be from many small bullets delivered quickly and accurately. A succession of small rounds that hit the target have a lot more damage potential than only one moderately larger bullet out of a group that went too high.
Some reloading gurus may correct me, but the name given to a round is not always the same as the bullet diameter. The bullet in a .223 round is actually .224 if I remember correctly.
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Re: Weapons for dummies?

Post by colinz » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:05 am

.303 actually fires a .311 bullet.

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