10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

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tarafore
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10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by tarafore » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:47 pm

Okay, I guess the title sez it all: what do you think of Bubba-ing up a 10/22 with a Tapco, Choate, or ATI pistol-grip style stock (preferably with M4 style collapsable stock) and using it to practice "battle carbine" (AK/AR) shooting.

Does it feel enough like the other guns to give you a good practice experience? Certainly, you'd still want to practice some with the real thing, but to train your close-in work, or simulate longer ranges with tiny targets, how would this do?

Is it worth the money (which is a lot less money than a .22lr upper for an AR)? Does it have any value?

Thanks!

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Juggernaut » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:05 pm

If you can afford it... Krinker plinker....

COOL little guns... built on a 10/22

http://www.krinkerplinker.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by screwsarahbrady » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:28 pm

how about one of these:http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AC-AKF-22.aspx

or you could get a .22 upper/conversion kit for your AR. You can also get a 22 kit for H&K's (see cheaperthandirt).

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Juggernaut » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:41 pm

WASR 22 would be good as well......

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by DropZedFred » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:44 pm

Take a peek at http://appleseedinfo.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and their LTR (Liberty Training Rifle). Good stuff.
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Dave_M » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:51 pm

A dedicated .22lr upper, although more expensive than a .22lr conversion or a 10/22, will probably serve you better in the long run. However, a 10/22 with peep sights will help you with the basics that apply to AR's like sight picture and sight alignment, although the manual of arms is a lot different.

The same company that made the GSG-5 (.22lr semi-auto MP5 looking thing) is now making an AK version. Looks a lot better than the .22lr AK trainers. Of course, like with everything, you have to pay more for quality.
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by armored_pig » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:13 pm

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I didn't know I bubba'd my gun :x now it must burn.

AP


PS
On a serious note, tapco stock with a same plane rear picatinny and same plane AR irons would make for a low costing dedicated practice gun

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Flea » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:56 pm

I had a Tapco T-6 for my 10/22...its nice but felt gimmicky to me. I took it off and put my 10/22 in a Hogue overmolded stock. I personally like it better...
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Abacus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:25 pm

I'm a fan of practice with what you use. I suppose the .22 upper for your weapon might be an option if you have a FAL or an Armalite, but my personal opinion is that this is cheesing out of your practice. But it's your skills, please yourself.
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Mbelasko12 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:32 pm

Tacti-coolness.....I admit I do want :oops:

http://www.rbprecision.com/id72.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

scroll on down to the bottem

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by donjulio » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:41 pm

Mbelasko12 wrote:

http://www.rbprecision.com/id72.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

scroll on down to the bottem
Aaww.....it wants to be a big rifle........ :lol:
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by NSaglibene » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:49 pm

Wow those Evos are frickin cool
AR/1911/Meatloaf

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Blacklabel » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:29 am

I don't see how a .22 conversion will help with battle prep..

If you wan't to shoot a .22 shoot a .22.

Bullet placement is Key.. Train like it is the real thing. With real ammo. .22 has nothing like the real ballistic trajectory of .223 or 7.62x39 or whatever you are shooting.

Dry fire or practice with real rounds. .22 conversions may do you an injustice in a real situation. My $0.02
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by armored_pig » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:51 am

Blacklabel, you make some valid points... But while practicing with .22 won't get you far in the ways of handling your real STHF weapon, some trigger time behind any weapon is good practice for general safe handling skills and helps you with developing your stance.

Lets say a person has a nasty flinch, practicing with a .22 will help them get used to using a firearm and help overcome the flinch. If someone is new to shooting and jumps straight on in, they may develope some bad habits.

AP

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by arc » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:23 am

Again, it all depends on what you want to learn.

I'm most interested in using my .223 carbines in real world urban conditions, not range conditions. The "recoil" of .223 is basically nothing to me so it might as well be a .22 LR (but that's me, I'm an adult male), and at CQB distances the trajectory issue just doesn't matter.

I've found I shoot the center fire rifle better ever since constructing my own .22 LR "trainer" especially at the shorter distances. In fact the main weakness of this trainer is that it doesn't have the same controls as the AR15. It has however helped me improve my overall shooting skill, and it's a capable tool (within its limits) in its own right.

My next rimfire project will either be trying to see if I can make a 10/22 with the same controls as the AR (I think you can get very close but I've not seen what I want accomplished and doubt it's possible), or a conversion unit for the AR using an old upper I have laying around.

Now if you're out to nail steel gongs at 600 yards with the AR15, no you're not going to really simulate that with a .22, just not going to happen. However if you can learn to use A2 sights well at short distances first, that's an awful good start, and way cheaper to do with a .22 LR.

Now maybe some day I'll be as fortunate as you folks who can buy a case of 5.56 or 7.62x39/51 or whatever makes you happy whenever you want or else have the space to store presses, primers, brass, etc, in fact I'm already trying to get some of those things, but for now I'm a starving MBA seeker surviving on <$11 an hour and I don't see that changing any time soon. Ain't a lot of demand for us accountant wanna-bes. I save the centerfire ammo for good opportunities to learn from or compete with people who can teach me how to do things smarter or better, and use the rimfire just to keep myself out there shooting something, anything.

It's an old, old idea, military forces the world over have been doing it for quite some time now. But I guess some people will never be content with anything less than the ideal. As for me, I'll make do with the best I can with what I got and figure I'm ahead of the great shambling masses at least.

I'd much prefer to spend my weekends at the most elite gun schools and Gabe Suarez's seminars etc. etc. flying first class there and back every week sipping champagne off the backs of Finnish supermodels and firing off thousands of rounds of .308 with abandon, but tain't happenin'. I think if you can do that, and you do do that, Good for you! I think that's how it oughtta be for everyone. But it ain't. NRA volunteers, competitive shooting events, vets, local guys who have gone to the expensive trainers, and a 22 caliber shortcut is what I got and what I use.

And it seems to work. We're all about the survival mindset here, and to me that means finding a way to make something out of nothing.

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Dave_M » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:59 am

Blacklabel wrote:I don't see how a .22 conversion will help with battle prep..

If you wan't to shoot a .22 shoot a .22.

Bullet placement is Key.. Train like it is the real thing. With real ammo. .22 has nothing like the real ballistic trajectory of .223 or 7.62x39 or whatever you are shooting.

No, shooting a .22lr conversion does not prepare you for the recoil of your full sized weapon. It does, however, allow you to train in sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, and manual of arms--much cheaper than with your main rifle. Since it's cheaper, you take it out more, which means you get to train more.
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:30 am

Just to add some more "ummph" behind this. At one paticular school, an old sniper durring a paticular war in the 60's with 64 (might be 67, I don't remember exactly)confirmed kills told the class this. Any thing that works on your fundementals will help you in the long run. Even a pellet gun and pellet trap in your hall way.

So yeah, train like its the real thing. If durring the real thing you want propper breathing, sight alighnment, trigger squeeze, ect... in any firing platform, get the .22. I won't knock anyone for training with what they can afford. A .308 snapcap doesn't have the ballistics of a 175gr BTHP, but it hasn't hurt me in holding sub minute groups.

Thats how a .22 conversion helps with battle preparations.
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Hoppy » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:01 pm

train as you fight.

the purpose of training is to develop familiarity with your weapon. while say a 22 upper could provide a way to train on stance and sight picture ( assuming same sights as your main rifle) it wont let you train in follow up shots, ballistic drop, or any ranged application.

i would not suggest using a separate gun (10/22) to train with. that defeats the purpose of training. no matter how similar you think it is, its not the same.
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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by Ringo » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:12 pm

Hoppy wrote:train as you fight.

the purpose of training is to develop familiarity with your weapon. while say a 22 upper could provide a way to train on stance and sight picture ( assuming same sights as your main rifle) it wont let you train in follow up shots, ballistic drop, or any ranged application.

i would not suggest using a separate gun (10/22) to train with. that defeats the purpose of training. no matter how similar you think it is, its not the same.
Second this. Even shooting something like a bolt, where there is deliberate time between firing, there is a world of difference between shooting a 10/22 and something like a .270, or a .223, or whatever. If your primary rifle from henceforth will be the 10/22, shoot it as often as possible and get to know it like a body extension. But if it is for training applications...eh.

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Re: 10/22 Tapco or other Stock as "practice battle carbine?"

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:30 pm

Definetly train as you fight. I'm just saying sometimes its not feasable.
Sometimes you just have to make due with what you got.
And in most cases, you'll probaly get better fundementals training with a brick of .22 than a similarly priced 20 rds of .223. C'mon its comparing 500rds to 20. Now don't ONLY reley on the .22, but theres nothing wrong with augmenting training with a cheaper way to do it.
And besides, I've stated in a post before, more often than not you have to shoot, MOVE, and COMUNICATE to survive. You can train on the latter two with a .22 just fine.
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