S&W Sigma--a review and test (56k beware)

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Postby doc66 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:52 pm

Hoppy wrote:how ever, i will never get used to Glock fans talking about trigger lb's


None of my Glocks have a trigger pull of over 5.5 pounds. With 11 lb from the factory, it might as well be a revolver from Germany. Smith and Wesson does some of the best triggers in the industry on their firearms, there is no excuse for even a "value" firearm to have an 11 pound trigger. None of my Smiths have had any where near that trigger pull, and I've had a few. Hell, even my Sig's had better triggers than that and they are known to be a bit "heavy".

The only trigger that is worse than a Sigma is the first run of the Walther P99's. They sucked. Oh, and the AMT Backup's, but they at least had the excuse that you were cocking the hammer with the trigger in a very short throw. And the Taurus PT111... okay there have been some stinkers. But still, from Smith, it should have been better.
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Postby doc66 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:53 pm

mr.trooper wrote:Maybe the failures were from you..


HAHAHAHA... you gotta know Dave. He's a llot of things, but a limp wrist is not one of them.
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Postby Dave_M » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:36 pm

mrapathy wrote:kel-tec p11 is worse than the sigma


Let's see some testing. Bear_B was supposed to be on the other side of this but I haven't seen him in a while.
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Postby GoSlash27 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:37 pm

CX4 carbine is worse than any of 'em :shock:

Anyone else willing to pony up pledge money for the Glock torture test? we're up to $50 so far.
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Postby GoSlash27 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:13 pm

wish I could have tried the trigger on the CX4 to see what Slash is talkin about.

Road trip to Gander Mountain tomorrow? :lol:
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Postby Dave_M » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:05 pm

I finished the test Sunday afternoon. Three additional failures. Details later on this afternoon.
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Postby Dave_M » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:08 pm

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Postby farrelljt » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:04 pm

I think the results are pretty impressive for a $250 gun. Again, as stated before, not something I would stake my life on, but definitely a decent purchase for letting others use/instructing others.
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Postby TheFreakinBear » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:05 pm

farrelljt wrote:I think the results are pretty impressive for a $250 gun. Again, as stated before, not something I would stake my life on, but definitely a decent purchase for letting others use/instructing others.


I would put it at the same level as a Glock...
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Postby mk_ultra » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:22 pm

A good gun for the money...well , I can agree with that.

Better than most people think ....well , I can certainly see that as well.

On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


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Postby TheFreakinBear » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:25 pm

mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.
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Postby Dave_M » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:28 pm

TheFreakinBear wrote:
mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.


Only cause' you've never spent the money on a Glock.

If ya'll want to send me money, I'll gladly do the same test on a Glock so you can compare.
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Postby TheFreakinBear » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:35 pm

DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.


Only cause' you've never spent the money on a Glock.

If ya'll want to send me money, I'll gladly do the same test on a Glock so you can compare.


Of course I wouldn't spend the money. If I wanted plastic to melt down I would just go to the local Recycling Center or save up some water bottles. :)
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Postby Dave_M » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:37 pm

TheFreakinBear wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.


Only cause' you've never spent the money on a Glock.

If ya'll want to send me money, I'll gladly do the same test on a Glock so you can compare.


Of course I wouldn't spend the money. If I wanted plastic to melt down I would just go to the local Recycling Center or save up some water bottles. :)


Coming from a guy that owns a Hi-point and a Raven...

ha ha ha
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Postby TheFreakinBear » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:39 pm

DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.


Only cause' you've never spent the money on a Glock.

If ya'll want to send me money, I'll gladly do the same test on a Glock so you can compare.


Of course I wouldn't spend the money. If I wanted plastic to melt down I would just go to the local Recycling Center or save up some water bottles. :)


Coming from a guy that owns a Hi-point and a Raven...

ha ha ha


If you want accuracy, reliability and don't want to spend a lot of money: Pick up a Hi-Point .45, a Raven .25 and a S&W Sigma 9mm.
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Postby wildbill » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:42 pm

DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.


Only cause' you've never spent the money on a Glock.

If ya'll want to send me money, I'll gladly do the same test on a Glock so you can compare.


Of course I wouldn't spend the money. If I wanted plastic to melt down I would just go to the local Recycling Center or save up some water bottles. :)


Coming from a guy that owns a Hi-point and a Raven...

ha ha ha


+10,000,000,000 :twisted:
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Postby ArmyOfDarkness » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:42 pm

TheFreakinBear wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
DavePAL84 wrote:
TheFreakinBear wrote:
mk_ultra wrote: On the same level as a Glock ..... I don't think so.


I respectfully disagree sir. I think that for that price and that reliability, it should be at the same level as a Glock. I would sooner melt a Glock down and use my Hi-Point if I can't use my Sigma.


Only cause' you've never spent the money on a Glock.

If ya'll want to send me money, I'll gladly do the same test on a Glock so you can compare.


Of course I wouldn't spend the money. If I wanted plastic to melt down I would just go to the local Recycling Center or save up some water bottles. :)


Coming from a guy that owns a Hi-point and a Raven...

ha ha ha


If you want accuracy, reliability and don't want to spend a lot of money: Pick up a Hi-Point .45, a Raven .25 and a S&W Sigma 9mm.


Or instead of wasting your money buy a glock.
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Postby farrelljt » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:45 pm

edit
Last edited by farrelljt on Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby farrelljt » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:52 pm

edit
Last edited by farrelljt on Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby arc » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:09 am

This is a great test. No bias, no bull hockey, and perfect for someone with no first hand experience beyond holding a Sigma. I will reference it for anyone curious about these guns.

Personally I found the results very telling. But let's keep in mind individual specimens often have their own weird little "personalities" and a lot of firearms that never work right for the first owner often work perfectly for the second, so YMMV etc.
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Postby GoSlash27 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:11 am

I would not wager that a Glock is any more accurate than a Sigma and I don't think that 6 FTFs out of a thousand is a bad result, particularly for Wolf and no bath.
I'd still like to see the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgjmtj9TgX8&feature=related]torture test[/url] re-created just for kicks.
I'm not a big fan of either, but I did enjoy the test. Thanks for putting it on!
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Postby doc66 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:08 am

TheFreakinBear wrote:If you want accuracy, reliability and don't want to spend a lot of money: Pick up a Hi-Point .45, a Raven .25 and a S&W Sigma 9mm.


A boat anchor, a die cast toy and a wanna-be. :roll:

Seriously. While I have fired Hi-Points and really have no real problem with them per se, they are not what I would choose for a firearm. The Raven, does what it is supposed to do, but again, I would not want to trust it too far.

The Sigma is what it is, a cheap Glock knock off that has been regulated to a lower class status by other designs. I have seen many shooters start with Sigmas in Police Acadmeys and I'd wager about half of them move on to something else rather quickly during the course of fire in the academy. The Sigmas work, but not always.

The Sigmas are fine, better tha a Hi Point, much better than a Raven, and while I'd rather have a Glock, I can tell you that the Sigma works better than a Sig Sauer if run dry. A Sig will bind up on the rails if there is not lubrication on them. I've had the displeasure of seeing this happen a few times while instructing.

Given my druthers, I'll take a Glock everytime if it comes down to the choice. The well proven track record of the Glock shows that it can stand up to a beating. The Sigma, in my experience, not everytime.

Rather than spend money on not-so-good firearms to build up a questionable collection, why not save the cash and buy more top of the line firearms. Vances regularly has Glocks and other brands on sale as police trade ins for under $400.00. The $200 you spent on the Hi-Point and the $80 you spent on the Raven could have put a really nice pistol on layaway and you'd have been further a head. DavePAL lives right there, he'd be more than happy to guide you along.

I was young once, my first pistols were a Titan .25 and a Llama 1911-ish .45. You move up if you shoot a lot. Time and money, that's all it takes. Now I've got machineguins and $2000 custom 1911's.
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Postby IllicitDreams » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:41 am

My thoughts on the Sigma... being that it was mine used for the test.

For the price it's not a bad pistol to start out on, for me it was a step up from my Hi-Point C9, will I move up from the Sigma? More than likely. Will it do the job while I save up money for the next step... yes.

With a little playing around with the springs, and a little polishing of some internals I think the trigger will improve greatly.
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Postby ant69 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:22 pm

All the gun snobbery aside the reason to own a gun is to use it. As long as it works well enough for the owner at a cost they can afford. As gun owners it is our jobs to introduce noobs to the gun world. I appreciate and effort time and money spent demonstrating the Sigma and while I may personally decide to stick with my Glock for duty carry, trust my life to a Sig on my days off, demonstrate proper grip and sight alignment with my Kimber and battle the zombie hordes with my Bushmaster that doesn't mean I won't sugest the S&W to a friend or student looking to purchase a entry level defensive or CCW pistol. Thanks to davePal and IllicitDreams good info. Ant
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