S&W Sigma--a review and test (56k beware)

[Dave_M]

There has been much talk and conjecture about the S&W Sigma. I set out to create a test. Tomorrow, on April 23, I am going to head out to the range with a Sigma and 1k of the dirtiest ammo possible--Wolf 9mm.

The Sigma is very inexpensive, which is what causes many people to gravitate towards it. A local shop is having a sale on them, the price is $250 and includes (4) standard capacity (16 round) magazines. Because the price point is so attractive, I decided to do a test on this platform.

First, IllicitDreams brought his Sigma to my house. It has had approximately 400 rounds through it so no break-in issues should occur. We broke the gun down and I cleaned--but did not lubricate--the parts. I was surprised (although I shouldn't have) at what I found inside. The slide assembly is almost exactly the same as a Glock. This shouldn't be surprising since Glock sued S&W (and won) a few years back for patent infringement. Here's a quick breakdown of the gun:



Look familiar? Well, if your a Glock owner it should. I did not break down the trigger assembly because I am not familiar with the setup (and it isn't my gun) but the slide assembly is almost exactly like a Glocks.

Inside view of the lower:



While stripping the slide, a part of the gun (all plastic pieces are white on the Sigma as opposed to the black on the Glock) a piece of the striker assembly shot out across my basement someplace. After more than a half hour of looking with no success, I actually broke down one of my Glocks and the Glock part fit in perfectly. Of course, as soon as I had the slide assembled we found the original parts and I replaced them. So yeah--the Sigma has all S&W parts inside of it now.

Due to this parts issue, IllicitDreams and I sat down and compared each part of the slide assembly against each other. Here are the results:

(All images have the Glock parts on top and the Sigma parts on the bottom)

As you can see, the plungers are slightly different--perhaps not similar enough to be interchanged.


Same with these parts


Extractors are noticeably different--the Glock extractor is too wide to fit into the Sigma


Yes, the Glock guide rod looks larger--this is because that is a G34 guide rod. When I used my G19 guide rod, it fit right into the Sigma.


The plunger springs appear to be the same.


Striker pins are slightly different. Notice the spring on the Sigma spring to avoid an extruded firing pin. Frankly I find this to be a non-issue in Glocks. Perhaps a slight change to fight patent infringement?


The Sigma part is slightly longer than the Glock.


The striker spring on the Sigma is smaller and stiffer whereas the Glock spring is longer and less stiff. Actually, the Sigma spring is much harder to use than the Glock spring when installing the retainers (hence the problem we had installing them). I think these would be interchangeable though.


Slide comparison between my G34 (obviously not cleaned) and a Sigma.

The slides were so similar, we decided to do a test:

the slide did not lock into place, although it fit onto the frame. The Sigma frame is slightly longer. When we tried to put a Sigma slide on a Glock frame it didn't work because the Glock ejector is in a different location.

The front sight appeared to be staked in place and also glued with some kind of polymer. Looked a bit off:


The Sigma also has some marks left over from plastic injection molding that the Glock does not. This is most noticeable on the trigger.

I weighed the trigger in at a very spongey 11lbs(!) No excuse for a trigger that heavy IMHO. I also do not like the non-standard rail on the frame of the Sigma.

Anywho, tomorrow I attempt to put 1k of rounds through her. Lots of pics will be taken and I'll update this thread after my range trip tomorrow.

[TheFreakinBear]

I'm patiently awaiting your results...............

Can't wait to hear how awesome the Sigma is!

[Valekhai]

I also eagerly await results. I haven't heard much about this pistol, but I'm liking the price. I've found myself wanting a pistol lately, but I don't want to spend too much since I'm still squirreling money away for an AR.

[IllicitDreams]

Of course we know I wanna know the outcome.

[Dave_M]

when the Sigma was redesigned and released it was during the time period when not all pistols used the picatinny rail. many companies tried theyre own rail design. S&W had 2 Sigma and S&W99/TSW atleast. Sig had a couple proprietary rails one for Sig Pro and another for theyre metal frames. Walther P99's first came with a proprietary rail. CZ100,Steyr and a number of others. Oh wait how the hell could I forget H&K's proprietary rail.

Maybe so, but there is an industry standard that even Hk is now beginning to use. I don't care how many companies were doing this, there is now an industry standard. I don't like it.

let me know if the 11lbs trigger goes off accidently. Glock has guns with 8 and 12 lbs triggers as well.

This isn't exactly a pocket pistol. No excuse for an 11lb trigger on a 4" barreled pistol. It has a crappy break too. Neither one of these lend themselves to accuracy. Defend it all you want though, you're certainly not going to change my mind. Glock did release the New-York trigger because NYC thought their LEO's were too stupid to learn how to use an semiauto.

Anyway, results in a few more hours. I hope I have enough time to fire everything today (talk about some sore thumbs!)

[GoSlash27]

Maybe we could take up a collection to purchase a guinea pig Sigma to reproduce the Glock torture test? Bury it in sand, mud, drop it from a tower, etc. and see if it still works/
I'll chip in $25 if I can get 5 people to match my pledge.

[Coal-Cracker]

...

trigger is much better after springs wear in and trigger parts are polished can get it down below 8 lbs. for competition use can remove couple springs and replace others with lighter aftermarket springs.
....

I hope the trigger improves, it couldn't get much worse. We sell quite a few of these at the shop I help out at. The price allows the pistol to sell itself; certainly not recommendations.

[GoSlash27]

Uh-oh! Public disagreement between Slashy and Mr. Apathy!

Disagree on the effect of trigger weight/ feel on accuracy. I like to run a light trigger because the force required to compress the trigger can induce muscle tremors and distort my grip, thus throwing my shots.
But I don't like a light trigger on a pistol without a safety as that leads to safety issues.
If I'm holstering or drawing, the safety is on while it's pointed in an unsafe direction. After that, if I don't intend to shoot my finger's got no business being inside the guard.

[Dave_M]

accessories available for the rail as well as an adapter to standard. cost millions in new tooling to make new die for frame would up the cost of a value line pistol. thats why they came out with the M&P.

I don't care what the explanation is--I don't like the non-standard rail.

Whats the size have to do it? Love to see that explained how larger pistols with light triggers are safer before a prosecutor,jury,judge and defense attorney.

Plenty of people have defended themselves with trigger less than 11 pounds. Plenty. Hell, why don't we make all triggers 20lbs then?

As far as accuracy what does the trigger weight and break have to do with the gun putting the bullet where the sights are? its the human factor in which trigger weight and trigger break matters more. is a 11 lbs trigger for everyone no some legitimately need a 5lbs trigger or lighter as handicap to match shooters strengths and skill or inability to develop such. no reason why good amount of people cannot develop strength and skill to shoot such a pistol.

ahh, know I fail to understand how serious competitors don't have 10 pound triggers on their guns? Read GoSlash27's post, I agree with most of it. Although I have no problem carrying a Glock with a lighter trigger, my carry gun is a standard 5.5lb

Anyway, I've been to the range and back. Results shortly

[GoSlash27]

Anyway, I've been to the range and back. Results shortly

Are we there yet?

As for the rest of it, immaterial. You're just the tester. Wouldn't do to let your personal prejudices color the results of your test. Plus I imagine pulling an 11 lb trigger 1,000 times might make one a bit cross...

So heavy trigger. Weird rail. Gotcha. Let's get to the good stuff.

[Big A]

Not that it matters a dern to this test, but what is wrapped
around the grip of those two weapons: tape or inner tube?

It looks exactly like the inner tube section I got on my Ruger;
the Hogue slip-on I tried made the grips too bulky.

[doc66]

HAHAHA! I know the results before you mugs!

[IllicitDreams]

Not that it matters a dern to this test, but what is wrapped
around the grip of those two weapons: tape or inner tube?

It looks exactly like the inner tube section I got on my Ruger;
the Hogue slip-on I tried made the grips too bulky.

It's a piece of inner tube.

[Dave_M]

Firstly, today was a great day to shoot. Just obver 70 degree with 50 percent humidity. Nice and sunny with very little wind.

Here' the Sigma with 1k of filthy, crusty, freshly packaged Wolf 9mm.


In Action


I found the magazines a tad difficult to load to a full 16 rounds. This isn't unusual nor concerning with new(ish) magazines like I was using. In order to avoid thumb fatigue I loaded only ten rounds into each magazine. A maglula would have been of great relief today.

I experienced my first failure at 120 rounds in. It was a mechanical failure, the slide did not lock back to the rear on the last shot. When I tried to open the slide it got stuck halfway and took a bit of effort to open and even more to keep it locked back

I marked the magazine so if it happened again I'd know if it was a magazine issue or not.

Second failure was 240 round in. I had a failure-to-feed


This was with a different magazine than the first.

555 rounds there was another (I thought it would be funny if it happened at 360 rounds). This time a failure-to-eject



I had to end the test at 700 rounds because I could no longer fill the magazines. My girlfriend has a problem with most mags and one of my friends crapped out on me last minute (thanks Aaron!). With a maglula I'm confident I could have finished in one day.


See that grin? I'm smiling because there are no more mags to load.

As I've commented before, I don't like the trigger. No surprise. I was getting pretty consistent hits at 25m with it though. I attempted some double-taps but the trigger is obviously much heavier than I am used to and they were slow and very inaccurate.

IllicitDreams told me that he had a failure before with the pistol when intentionally limp wristing the pistol. Even with this knowledge I could not repeat this failure. I shot weak hand for about a hundred rounds and did not experience any problems either.

I think the magazine release could be larger (the same could be said of many other guns) but I'm likely spoiled by my G34 extended release.

Lots of empty boxes


Good thing this wasn't a match or I'd have a lot of penalties




Operation for the last 150 rounds or so was very sluggish. I think that if I could have continued the test I would've had more FTE's.

The aftermath:

Upon returning home I disassembled the pistol but I did not wipe or clean anything off in case IllicitDreams wants to let me borrow his pistol for a little longer for another range trip.

Muzzle:



Innards:


Slide:


Barrel:



There appears to be some damage on the locking lug of the barrel. This concerns me as to the long-term viability of this pistol. Only time will tell.

Striker pin channel


One other item of interest is that it took much more effort to remove the extractor than usual. It was basically glued in place with carbon crud. Once again, I think I would've experienced further failures if I could have continued. Let's hope I can finish up next week.


Conclusions:
-For $250 it isn't a bad gun.

-Comparing this to a Glock, despite the mechanical similarities, is apples and oranges. What we really need to compare the Sigma to is other pistols of similar price points. I'd like to see this done with a Keltec P11 and other medium-priced pistols.

-Bring friends to help shoot and load magazines (or bring a maglula)


I must say that I did bring along my G34 with a couple of loaded magazines so I could clean out my hands with a decent trigger. It was a breath of fresh air after 700 rounds of 11lb trigger, I tell you what.

[TheFreakinBear]

Great write up Dave! Thanks man!

[IllicitDreams]

Not bad results. If you'd like to hold onto the pistol to finish the test by all means go for it, I know it's in good hands.

[GoSlash27]

550 rounds. 3 failures only 2 of which result in a need for a tap-rack.

Not bad so far, but I don't envy you yankin' on that boat-anchor.

[GoSlash27]

Oh, yeah:
Black hands= "*don't* shoot me" for those unfamiliar with IDPA.

[Hoppy]

well im glad you have the sigma a fair shake.

how ever, i will never get used to Glock fans talking about trigger lb's

[Dave_M]

how ever, i will never get used to Glock fans talking about trigger lb's

I guess you've never shot a G34

[L1Z4RD]

What is the grip wrapped with on the Sigma?

[Dave_M]

What is the grip wrapped with on the Sigma?

Bicycle innertube.

[mr.trooper]

Maybe the failures were from you.

My Glock 30 has never failed me. My dad shot it, and it failed left and right. I picked it up, and it shoots fine again.

[Dave_M]

Maybe the failures were from you.

Don't think so. I even intentionally limp wristed it.