something on the cheap

[Mr_Fubar]

I think ARs feel like toys...

[Ghostfist]

I think ARs feel like toys...

I completely agree. I really dislike the .223 round also.

[Mugwug]

I think ARs feel like toys...

Yep, compared to a proper battle rifle they feel wrong, but damn I love my AR....

[Gundown]

I think ARs feel like toys...

I completely agree. I really dislike the .223 round also.

Why you no likey the .223? Is it because of it's lack of knock down power? Or is it do to the fact you can't use it for home defence in an apartment complex do to it's "Punch Through Walls And Neighbors" action-fu?

I ask because the first rifle I plan to buy is a Mini 14.

[TheBlunderbuss]

Hey Slings, which context of "drop guns" are you talking about?
The kind you can stand to lose,
or the kind that you plant on a corpse to justify shooting?
'Cause I can't imagine you to be so deviant.

[Mr_Fubar]

Drop gun= kill someone with it then throw it in the river...

[SlingsVaqueros]

Eh, I meant the type you plant on the body of the person you "accidently" shot six or eight times over a "disagreement"...

[kyle]

We should probably avoid discussions on killing the living.

[Ghostfist]

I think ARs feel like toys...

I completely agree. I really dislike the .223 round also.

Why you no likey the .223? Is it because of it's lack of knock down power? Or is it do to the fact you can't use it for home defence in an apartment complex do to it's "Punch Through Walls And Neighbors" action-fu?

I ask because the first rifle I plan to buy is a Mini 14.

The mini 14 is an awsome rifle no doudt (I've owned a couple). As a matter of fact, I would take one over a AR any day. When you reload you don't have to fuck with the little plunger to load the first round. Why our military can't produce a better battle rifle is beyond me.

If you really are in to the Mini-14 look for a few books by Duncan Long. Some of his conversions are really top notch. I say go for the Mini-14, it's a top notch rifle without any serious flaws.

[Mr_Fubar]

Yeah Slings them damn anti-Zomibicide laws... Gotta start goin all corrupt like to kill em...

[Nightside_Eclipse]

I love my mini-14.


The only jams I've had with it were from the defective mag that they gave me at the shop I got it from.


I'd MUCH rather have my mini than an AR it the PAW.

And of course if you don't like the .223 get a Mini-30

But that's just my $.02

[Jonas]

My friend let me borrow his mini-14 for a little bit. I wasn't impressed. With both Winchester (in my opinion high quality bullets/components) and with Wolf (crap) rounds would get stuck while going into battery. Then if it could actually chamber a round and fire two rounds would eject.
It could have just been the combination or rounds and magazines but it wasn't a gun I'd trust my life to.

I told him about it and said I just didn't know how to "baby" it. I've never had to baby any other gun to get it to work.

[Ghostfist]

My friend let me borrow his mini-14 for a little bit. I wasn't impressed. With both Winchester (in my opinion high quality bullets/components) and with Wolf (crap) rounds would get stuck while going into battery. Then if it could actually chamber a round and fire two rounds would eject.
It could have just been the combination or rounds and magazines but it wasn't a gun I'd trust my life to.

I told him about it and said I just didn't know how to "baby" it. I've never had to baby any other gun to get it to work.

That's very uncommon, I would say. Probably was a bad magazine and/or just needed a good cleaning.

[Jonas]

That's very uncommon, I would say. Probably was a bad magazine and/or just needed a good cleaning.

Well I tried two different mags with it and both had the same results. Maybe both mags were on the cheapside or worn out. I know it wasn't dirty because I cleaned it myself.

[bgaesop]

I guess this would be the place to put it. I went to GoodWill today, and got a BDU shirt for $5. They also had pants, but they looked dumb, so I just got three pairs of jeans for $5 each. That place rules! The shirt already has ranks on it, and when I find my dad's camera I'll post pics, see if you guys know what any of them mean.

[Ghostfist]

That's very uncommon, I would say. Probably was a bad magazine and/or just needed a good cleaning.

Well I tried two different mags with it and both had the same results. Maybe both mags were on the cheapside or worn out. I know it wasn't dirty because I cleaned it myself.

I had the same problem with my Beretta 92fs. Nothing but jams with 2 high cap mags. I regret selling it now, because everyone else seems to love them. Next time I will send a gun to the gunsmith before the pawnshop.

[bgaesop]

Speaking of which, would you trust any guns from a pawn shop? How could you verify their quality?

[SlingsVaqueros]

If you're going to buy a used gun, make sure you know how to inspect a weapon. If it makes that rattling sound when you shake it, like when they draw a gun in the movies, that means something’s loose that shouldn't be. Guns are precision machines that should be snug and tight if the springs are properly tensioned and the frame or slide is not worn down. If the pawn shop is selling guns that are in good repair, or anyplace that's not trying to pass off crap, run the suspect weapon under the "tap, rack, and clear" motion a few times to make sure everything moves smoothly and securely. The dealer may not want you to “abuse the product”, but you are putting it through the motions it was built to do. If the dealer has a problem with that, he’s hiding something, go elsewhere. Dry-fire it a few times and give it a "smack up-side the head" a few times to see what shakes. Oh, yea, make sure the weapon's unloaded before the above is performed. Testing to see what is loose or what is where it should be takes a small familiarity with firearms, but a few quick tests like these will show a problem to even a novice.

Check the frame for stress cracks just under the slide and wear marks in moving parts. Some finish wearing off the sides may be from carrying it in a holster for log periods and won’t affect the function of the gun. Bring a friend who knows more than you about guns to make sure you don't get screwed if you don’t feel confident with the above methods. Or just buy new for a few guns and then you'll get the feel for what a gun should react like.

I’m sure other folks will add good tips that we could all benefit from to the above listing.

[jamoni]

For revolvers, check the fit of the crane and cylinder. Make sure they don't wiggle. Good tips, Slings. Ask your store if they guarantee function on the guns, and how long you have to return it. If they won't guarantee, go elsewhere.

[Jonas]

I can't believe I forgot to post this but Bersa makes really nice guns for the price. I still hear bad things about Llama but nothing negative about Bersa.
Their .380 is super nice.

http://www.bersa-llama.com

[SlingsVaqueros]

Ugh, I had a friend who had a Llama .45ACP. The thing nearly blew up while he was shooting it. One of the parts caught up durring shooting and obscured the barrel. Parts of a gun should NOT come loose durring opperation. The first thaough would naturally be user error, but this guy took care of his weapons. I'll never endorse that brand...

[Jonas]

As I said I still hear bad things about Llama but Bersa is a different story. For those who don't know they are seperate companies who have their products sold through the same importer. Bersa's products are great for how much they cost. They are finished well, well balanced/point well and the trigger pull is excellent in DA. A gun shop owner would have had me sold on their .380 if it wasn't a weakmo caliber.

[PistolPete]

An option to the Hi-Point and Jennings type of firearms could be something surplus and eastern-bloc, like a CZ-52 or Makarov.

I owned a CZ-52 pistol, it is very well built and used a roller-locked action like an HK rifle. Only downside is it's single action only (like a 1911), and the ammo is a bit odd, although it's readily available. They are chambered in 7.62x25, it's a fast 30 caliber round. Great on penetration perhaps not a great defensive round. The ammo is available and cheap, but not nearly as plentiful as any of the more common rounds in the US.

Last I checked the CZ-52 was going for $150 at dealers, with a surplus holster, cleaning rod, and two mags. Maybe a better choice than a Hi-Point, perhaps.

[Jonas]

I owned a CZ-52 pistol, it is very well built and used a roller-locked action like an HK rifle. Only downside is it's single action only (like a 1911),

What exactly is the downside of a single action semi?

Cocked and locked carry in my opinion is safer than striker fired semis which are constantly on half cock with no safety. The design isn't overly complex which helps cut back on reliability issues and the consistancy of only having to deal with short single action trigger pulls adds to accuracy.