How many mags do you consider "enough" for each gun?

[Phil]

Did you ever find out anything about the ammunition?

No. I cleared the rounds and dropped them into a bucket of sand and went on with life. I'm sure our GMs took care of them.

Phil Forrest

[woodsghost]

I believe it was in "Shoot to Live" that Fairbairn and Sykes talked about the Shanghai police having about 1 out of 10,000 rounds fail to go off after a year of storage, and each year that count would go up a little per 10,000. Someone can check me in that. But his recommendation was to cycle out the ammo every year from all the officers guns and from inventory. The officer's ammo especially was subject to environmental effects. That is why I insist all my serious ammo needs to have sealants.

I have had 2x rounds of 9mm FMJ fail to go off and 1x squib and 1x failure to go off with 7.62x39 in the last 10 years. The 7.62 was Herters, and was SUPER on sale. I wonder about that ....

The 9mm I don't remember but might have been Remington. It was over 5 years ago.

I am remembering some recent remanufactured 9mm where the primer was in wrong (sideways). That FTFed.

I have had some reloads and .22s which failed, but no surprise there.

So for rounds with factory quality, they occasionally don't go bang. The only statistic I've ever seen was from Fairbairn and the Shanghai police.

[RonnyRonin]

Yes, I have. I had two boxes of Magtech Guardian Gold 124 gr. 9mm that 1 round in 3 wouldn't fire despite good primer strikes (I avoid the brand now). I've had a pair of Winchester "Service Grade" .45 ACP squibs that barely made it out of the barrel, I've had 2 .380 ACP rounds that failed to fire with good primer strikes (I forget what brand now, maybe PPU?) and I had one Federal 55 gr .223 underpowered round that hit the dirt on the 100-yard range about 50 yards downrange. That's just in the past decade. If you want to go back to my military days I've seen everything from issue .38 Special all the way up to 3" rifle rounds fail to fire. Hell, in boot I got cheated out of qualifying with the 1911 by a round that failed to fire (I qualified later on).

And I never said extra mags weren't a good idea. I said that I recommended expending carry ammo and replacing it with fresh on a regular basis.

If I had that kind of experience I would probably be far more paranoid, that is a LOT of ammo failures. I can't blame you now for cycling as often as you do.

"Shoot to Live" ... about 1 out of 10,000 rounds fail to go off after a year of storage

Has ammo production changed much since 1942? I assume it has but I really don't know much about it. I'm not sure how long my training ammo sits around as it all kind of gets mixed together, but I'd guess it completely rotates out every 2-3 years.

[NT2C]

Yes, I have. I had two boxes of Magtech Guardian Gold 124 gr. 9mm that 1 round in 3 wouldn't fire despite good primer strikes (I avoid the brand now). I've had a pair of Winchester "Service Grade" .45 ACP squibs that barely made it out of the barrel, I've had 2 .380 ACP rounds that failed to fire with good primer strikes (I forget what brand now, maybe PPU?) and I had one Federal 55 gr .223 underpowered round that hit the dirt on the 100-yard range about 50 yards downrange. That's just in the past decade. If you want to go back to my military days I've seen everything from issue .38 Special all the way up to 3" rifle rounds fail to fire. Hell, in boot I got cheated out of qualifying with the 1911 by a round that failed to fire (I qualified later on).

And I never said extra mags weren't a good idea. I said that I recommended expending carry ammo and replacing it with fresh on a regular basis.

If I had that kind of experience I would probably be far more paranoid, that is a LOT of ammo failures. I can't blame you now for cycling as often as you do.

"Shoot to Live" ... about 1 out of 10,000 rounds fail to go off after a year of storage

Has ammo production changed much since 1942? I assume it has but I really don't know much about it. I'm not sure how long my training ammo sits around as it all kind of gets mixed together, but I'd guess it completely rotates out every 2-3 years.

A lot of failures in total but probably well within the statistically "normal" range given how many rounds I've fired over a lifetime of shooting. Just in the military I probably went through upwards of a quarter-million rounds. Summers on one of the family farms or weeks at the cabin near Lake Champlin would see us go through several hundred rounds a day. (including guests, family, hangers-on) I will say though that the Magtech failures surprised me enough that we tried them in three different guns but what surprised me more was the company's response when I contacted them which was a terse, "Our ammunition doesn't do that." They fobbed it off as a failure on my end. That's why I avoid buying the brand now.

[woodsghost]

"Shoot to Live" ... about 1 out of 10,000 rounds fail to go off after a year of storage

Has ammo production changed much since 1942? I assume it has but I really don't know much about it. I'm not sure how long my training ammo sits around as it all kind of gets mixed together, but I'd guess it completely rotates out every 2-3 years.

Good question. I can't speak as an authority, but I can say I suspect "ammo manufacturing" is less of a culprit than "powder composition & environmental effects." That is just a hunch though. Something I've learned as a reloader of old rounds (.38, .357) is that some of the powders we use are basically unchanged in 100+ years. I suspect powder technology has changed, but not a lot in that time. I suspect powders still degrade with exposure to air and moisture. I suspect both air and moisture get into some rounds.

Also, I bet primers can go bad or the composition might not be the best.

[echo83]

So I have a fixation with keeping ammunition on board each weapon whenever possible:

SKS has a Strike Hard butt stock pouch with three loaded stripper clips (30 rounds on board)

Mossberg 500 has a shotgun card mounted to the side of the receiver with industrial velcro. (5 rounds on board)

Besides my Marlin .22, which uses 7 round mags, I don't have anything else that's mag fed.

Off board, I like the Chinese SKS Chest rig. I picked one up from Sarco because it was in great condition and came with 20 milsurp stripper clips. I keep it filled with 180 rounds on stripper clips, and an oiler/bore snake in the cleaning kit pouch. It was a steal, but jumped up to $39.95 and is currently out of stock.

TL;DR? I keep at least one reload on board every weapon, and don't think it's possible to have too many (milsurp!) stripper clips.

[ultra magnus]

Minimum for any firearm who's primary purpose is personal protection

3 for handguns. One in the gun, 2 on the belt.

5 for rifles. One in the gun 4 on a carrier. (If using mags that hold +20 rounds)

I like the words of wisdom that I think came from here a lifetime ago.

If you don't have enough ammo to keep all your mags loaded you need more ammo.

If you have more ammo than you can keep loaded in mags, you need more mags.

[PistolPete]

IMHO, and it's just an opinion, this is the wrong thing to do.

Have you ever had a bad round from a quality brand? I've personally never had a 9mm not go bang, even the cheapest of crap or 10 year old defense ammo. I've heard concerns over losing velocity over the years, but I've never talked to anyone else that failed to have a round go bang either. Bullets being pushed back into the cases from being rechambered repeatedly is a concern of mine, but once again it mostly lives in the land of hypothetical concerns, and I just do my best to rotate my +1 round.

I've had several duds in 9mm over the years from store bought ammo. It's very uncommon, maybe once every 4 or 5k rounds? I've also had two squibs, one from WWB and one from steel case 9x18. My incidents of cartridge failure are actually higher with store bought ammo than my reloads, of which I've had exactly 1 squib round when I loaded a 44 magnum with no powder. Although I did have a box of hand loaded ammo that fell behind my workbench in a basement that gets wet from time to time and sat there for 20 years. I tried a couple rounds (for science) and half of the 4 I tried were squibs. Don't shoot ammo that's been wet for two decades!

I change out my carry ammo about once a year, for me it's the right balance between ammo freshness and cost effectiveness.

[Brekar]

I don't know if you consider Blazer ammo "quality' ammo per say, but last year I had 40 or so rounds out of 50 round box that took solid primer strikes, but failed to fire. This was out of my S&W M&P Pro .40. This was the second time that year I'd had an issue with PMC & Blazer ammo for my .40, so I've never went back.

I now run 180 grain Federal HST for self defense load, American Eagle, Winchester white box, Remington, and Hornady FMJ's for practice just fine, all with out issues, so that's what I stock up on. If I cannot find HST for self defense loads, then my back up is usually 180 grain Winchester Ranger JHP or Sig Sauer V-Crown 180 grain JHP.

I also change out my CCW ammo about every 3-6 months, depending on how deep I've got it stacked.

On a side note. I've got a 500 round case of 20+ year old Federal .22LR ammo that I've recently fired about 150-200 rounds of, and had 5 total FTF. Not to bad for .22LR if I say so...

[91Eunozs]

@Brekar: if you had that many ftf malfunctions, and it’s certain it was the ammo (same weapon fired in same configuration with other ammo with no issues), the manufacturer will definitely want to see that ammo and replace it for you.

When I was having issues with one of my rifles shortly after 300BLK ammo was introduced several years ago, I had some problems and Hornady paid to have several boxes shipped back to them and tested. Turns out I had an undersized gas port that also wasn’t drilled all the way through...coupled with a carbine length gas system (should almost always use pistol-length gas w/300BLK) the lighter loads Hornady was producing at the time wouldn’t cycle my bolt. All good now.

[RonnyRonin]

For all the people that have had numerous failures; can any of them be attributed to old ammo? it sounds like a lot of them are happening right out of the box or with unknown ammo. Could any of the failures been avoided by cycling out ammo on a shorter time frame or do you think they were just defects?

[woodsghost]

I think the Herters was probably stored in a wetter environment.

Some of my reloads failed because of hard primers and a weak hammer spring. I switched out the hammer spring. It was 50 years old.

I don't know why the 9mm failed, but I wonder if the striker on the pistol had a weaker spring, or the compound in the primers was bad or just shallow.

I have got real paranoid about ammo storage now and I insist on having duty ammo sealed at both the neck and primer. I also want all my ammo stored in good conditions. But I also want to be able to drag the same rounds through rain and snow and humidity for a year or more and still expect them to shoot. That is why I insist on the round itself being sealed.

[NT2C]

For all the people that have had numerous failures; can any of them be attributed to old ammo? it sounds like a lot of them are happening right out of the box or with unknown ammo. Could any of the failures been avoided by cycling out ammo on a shorter time frame or do you think they were just defects?

Well, some of the military ammo I was shooting back in the day was WWII production. We bought .45 ACP by the kajillons during the war and were still shooting it in Vietnam. Some was even pre-WWII if you count the 3" rifle ammo (at 76mm a tad large to be considered small arms but some really nice brass cases).

[MPMalloy]

I think the Herters was probably stored in a wetter environment.

Some of my reloads failed because of hard primers and a weak hammer spring. I switched out the hammer spring. It was 50 years old.

I don't know why the 9mm failed, but I wonder if the striker on the pistol had a weaker spring, or the compound in the primers was bad or just shallow.

I have got real paranoid about ammo storage now and I insist on having duty ammo sealed at both the neck and primer. I also want all my ammo stored in good conditions. But I also want to be able to drag the same rounds through rain and snow and humidity for a year or more and still expect them to shoot. That is why I insist on the round itself being sealed.

Outside of milsurp, who does a good job of sealing the primers & neck?

[NT2C]

I think the Herters was probably stored in a wetter environment.

Some of my reloads failed because of hard primers and a weak hammer spring. I switched out the hammer spring. It was 50 years old.

I don't know why the 9mm failed, but I wonder if the striker on the pistol had a weaker spring, or the compound in the primers was bad or just shallow.

I have got real paranoid about ammo storage now and I insist on having duty ammo sealed at both the neck and primer. I also want all my ammo stored in good conditions. But I also want to be able to drag the same rounds through rain and snow and humidity for a year or more and still expect them to shoot. That is why I insist on the round itself being sealed.

Outside of milsurp, who does a good job of sealing the primers & neck?

Most "law enforcement" ammo is sealed, such as Federal HST, Hydra-Shok, etc.

[woodsghost]

I think the Herters was probably stored in a wetter environment.

Some of my reloads failed because of hard primers and a weak hammer spring. I switched out the hammer spring. It was 50 years old.

I don't know why the 9mm failed, but I wonder if the striker on the pistol had a weaker spring, or the compound in the primers was bad or just shallow.

I have got real paranoid about ammo storage now and I insist on having duty ammo sealed at both the neck and primer. I also want all my ammo stored in good conditions. But I also want to be able to drag the same rounds through rain and snow and humidity for a year or more and still expect them to shoot. That is why I insist on the round itself being sealed.

Outside of milsurp, who does a good job of sealing the primers & neck?

Federal's higher end options, and Hornedy Critical Duty. I would have to look up what others do that. A lot of times, if you can see a picture of the base/primer of the bullet and you see some coloration of the primer, that is a sign that the primer has been sealed. It might then be good to look up whether the neck was sealed too.

[RonnyRonin]

The ammo our local group has settled on is some Russian production 5.56 that has the weird purple stuff where the bullet meets the neck, and around the primer; I'm assuming/hoping its sealed. We are lucky enough to have low humidity, and most of it is sealed in cans, but a decent bit lives in magazines and on stripper clips in bandoliers.

[RoneKiln]

ALL THE MAGAZINES!

The fewest mags I have for a weapon is 5. For anything I consider a "fighting" weapon, I have 20 or more*. Magazines are expendable. They wear out, they get dropped, they get tossed to buddies, and many are vulnerable to legislation. If all is right in the world, they're easily repaired or replaced. But if I ever truly need a "fighting" weapon, I'm assuming the world is not a friendly place anymore. Plus, it's real nice to not have to reload magazines very often at the range.

I also have color coded magazines and AR furniture for 5.56 vs 300 blackout. Anyone in my family can tell with a glance which AR takes which loaded magazine even if they don't recognize the specific rifle. I have no interest in wrecking a 5.56 barrel by accidently grabbing a magazine loaded with the wrong ammo. It's happened to other people.

I have inherited firearms a century or more old that still function flawlessly despite heavy use. I want some of the firearms I have purchased to also work well for my grandchildren, so I keep a lot of magazines for them. My grandchildren may not be able to easily replace them.

Cost and availability of magazines does strongly influence what weapons I purchase.

*I've picked up a few spare glocks in .40 over the years and a keltec sub2000 that takes glock .40 mags, and don't have 20 mags for each one. But collectively I have well over 20 mags for glocks in .40.

[woodsghost]

The ammo our local group has settled on is some Russian production 5.56 that has the weird purple stuff where the bullet meets the neck, and around the primer; I'm assuming/hoping its sealed. We are lucky enough to have low humidity, and most of it is sealed in cans, but a decent bit lives in magazines and on stripper clips in bandoliers.

You have sealed rounds and they should be able to be submerged in water for over a week and still work. I've done tests and posted up my results on ZS before. Around 2014?

It sounds like you are probably running Golden Tiger, which is good ammo. They are the only ones I, personally, have seen use purple sealants, but I suppose someone else could too.

I would expect the outside of the case is green/lacquer coated too? In my experience that is a good weather proofing of the case and all Golden Tiger ammo is green lacquer coated.

If I had that setup I'd be very confident in my ammo reliability.

[PistolPete]

Outside of milsurp, who does a good job of sealing the primers & neck?

I've seen S&B 9mm with sealed primers and I have a case of American Eagle 223 62gr that has sealed primers. Of course, it's hit and miss with those brands as most of what they sell doesn't have sealed primers, but if you keep an eye out you can find it.

[aikorob]

I like the words of wisdom that I think came from here a lifetime ago.

If you don't have enough ammo to keep all your mags loaded you need more ammo.

If you have more ammo than you can keep loaded in mags, you need more mags.

I can add to that: You can never have too much ammo................unless you are swimming, or on fire.

[NT2C]

I like the words of wisdom that I think came from here a lifetime ago.

If you don't have enough ammo to keep all your mags loaded you need more ammo.

If you have more ammo than you can keep loaded in mags, you need more mags.

I can add to that: You can never have too much ammo................unless you are swimming, or on fire.

"No one ever complained of having too much ammo in a gun fight." - Clint Smith

[PistolPete]

I can add to that: You can never have too much ammo................unless you are swimming, or on fire.

Or moving. That shit is heavy.

[RoneKiln]

I can add to that: You can never have too much ammo................unless you are swimming, or on fire.

Or moving. That shit is heavy.

Long ago I helped a buddy move and started loading cases of a single caliber of ammo into the back of my hatchback. The back end was bottomed out before I finished loading that one caliber. Luckily he wasn't moving that far.

That's a problem with moving that I wouldn't mind having.