Firearms Chat 5: #pewpewlife

[RickOShea]

That said I have never understood the appeal of a bump stock.

Or the necessity...

http://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/vi ... 376300053/

[Halfapint]

That said I have never understood the appeal of a bump stock.

I bought one years ago, attached it, shot it once, hated it, and then threw it away. I'm always up for anything that "pushes the limits" but it wasn't accurate, sustained fire was unwieldy and over all didn't do anything except send money down the barrel faster.

It sucks the company is going out of business, but don't be a one trick pony.

[RickOShea]

What really sucks is the reason why the company is shutting down: that the ATF is most likely going to reclassify "rate increasing devices" like bump stocks as being afoul of "machine gun" regs. That's going to open a pretty big door....You can shoot 5 - 6 rounds per second with a stock mil-spec trigger, but you can fire 8 - 9 shots per second with a Geissele trigger? Then your Geissele trigger is also a "rate increasing device". With a bunch of 10 round mags (and decent speed reloads) you can get off around 100 shots in 60 seconds, but with 30 round mags (and fewer reloads) you can fire around 180 shots in 60 seconds? Then your 30 round mags are also "rate increasing devices"....and so on.

[Stercutus]

What really sucks is the reason why the company is shutting down: that the ATF is most likely going to reclassify "rate increasing devices" like bump stocks as being afoul of "machine gun" regs. That's going to open a pretty big door....You can shoot 5 - 6 rounds per second with a stock mil-spec trigger, but you can fire 8 - 9 shots per second with a Geissele trigger? Then your Geissele trigger is also a "rate increasing device". With a bunch of 10 round mags (and decent speed reloads) you can get off around 100 shots in 60 seconds, but with 30 round mags (and fewer reloads) you can fire around 180 shots in 60 seconds? Then your 30 round mags are also "rate increasing devices"....and so on.

Reloading is never accounted for in cyclic rate of fire.

You can still bump fire without a bump stock. If your shirt tail and belt loop get classified as a machine gun by the ATF you can tell the girls you have an unregistered machine gun in your pants at all time.

Full auto fire is not very useful for legal purposes outside of actual combat, where if employed properly, can be useful. Bump firing which is essentially full auto with much less accuracy is little more than a toy.

The Vegas shooter was well off so he was able to throw money away bump firing. Also it seems he had an end game that involved not worrying about retirement. Since his target was a huge mass of people accuracy was near meaningless.

[Asymetryczna]

accuracy was near meaningless

That's right. Hate and hurting was all that he was after.

MG's are used for many things, one of which is suppression, or the keeping the heads of ones enemies down so that another group can move up and touch them. For this, I'd always choose the coax on the Abrams, if available.

There is no better suppression than accuracy.

[Halfapint]

There is no better suppression than accuracy.

Isnt that the sniper creed? I know in plenty of wars precise aim stopped entire armies, a hand full of people strategically placed with accurate rifles taking an officer or someone out can an all out advance.

[RickOShea]

Reloading is never accounted for in cyclic rate of fire.

But it is for sustained/effective rate of fire. Are you confident the Gub'mint will only account for one, and not the other?

[MPMalloy]

There is no better suppression than accuracy.

Isnt that the sniper creed? I know in plenty of wars precise aim stopped entire armies, a hand full of people strategically placed with accurate rifles taking an officer or someone out can an all out advance.

Asymetryczna has a good point. There are different schools of thought. One is to keep their heads down with small arms fire while you finish them off with, say, artillery, mortars, etc. Indirect fire and such.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Hey Everybody:

CBS World News Roundup (podcast) reported this AM that Slidefire, the maker of "bump stocks", is shutting down operations late May.

It sucks they're shutting down, but I hope they'll be back with some different products at some point.

[Bearcat]

Couldn't give a shit less that they are getting banned for all the reasons others have already said. They can have that one.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

I had thought about buying a Slidefire stock for my AK, but I decided my money would be better spent on more ammo and mags.

As for Slidefire shutting down, I just hope the folks that work for them can find jobs elsewhere after they go down. That's where my concern lies. The higher-ups might be fine, but Joe Schmoe who works down on the factory floor is going to get screwed next month.

[Stercutus]

Reloading is never accounted for in cyclic rate of fire.

But it is for sustained/effective rate of fire. Are you confident the Gub'mint will only account for one, and not the other?

If the ATF can make a shoe string in to a machine gun and then back again then the only confidence I have in them is that they will do or say just about anything to please their political masters.

[NT2C]

If your shirt tail and belt loop get classified as a machine gun by the ATF

Gonna be an awful lot of naked people wait for their clothing purchase to be approved.

[MacWa77ace]

What really sucks is the reason why the company is shutting down: that the ATF is most likely going to reclassify "rate increasing devices" like bump stocks as being afoul of "machine gun" regs. That's going to open a pretty big door....You can shoot 5 - 6 rounds per second with a stock mil-spec trigger, but you can fire 8 - 9 shots per second with a Geissele trigger? Then your Geissele trigger is also a "rate increasing device". With a bunch of 10 round mags (and decent speed reloads) you can get off around 100 shots in 60 seconds, but with 30 round mags (and fewer reloads) you can fire around 180 shots in 60 seconds? Then your 30 round mags are also "rate increasing devices"....and so on.

Just wait until after its a rule. Then it'll be like , YEESSS, Gun oil IS a rate increasing device and therefore you are not allowed to oil your gun.

This is my rate increasing device.

[Stercutus]

If your shirt tail and belt loop get classified as a machine gun by the ATF

Gonna be an awful lot of naked people wait for their clothing purchase to be approved.

You can wear pants, just not the belt loops. Might also be a restriction on the number of loops and the length of your shirt tail. The California version will look something like this:

[raptor]

What about "ass less chaps"? They may not need a waiting period.

[Langenator]

What really sucks is the reason why the company is shutting down: that the ATF is most likely going to reclassify "rate increasing devices" like bump stocks as being afoul of "machine gun" regs. That's going to open a pretty big door....You can shoot 5 - 6 rounds per second with a stock mil-spec trigger, but you can fire 8 - 9 shots per second with a Geissele trigger? Then your Geissele trigger is also a "rate increasing device". With a bunch of 10 round mags (and decent speed reloads) you can get off around 100 shots in 60 seconds, but with 30 round mags (and fewer reloads) you can fire around 180 shots in 60 seconds? Then your 30 round mags are also "rate increasing devices"....and so on.

Just wait until after its a rule. Then it'll be like , YEESSS, Gun oil IS a rate increasing device and therefore you are not allowed to oil your gun.

This is my rate increasing device.

And what about Jerry Miculek? Does he need a tax stamp? (He was made before 1986, and thus the Hughes Act does not apply.)

[MPMalloy]

From NPR: Naked Gunman Kills 4 In Waffle House Shooting, Remains At Large

April 22, 20181:03 PM ET By Alexis Diao/AP

Updated at 4:15 p.m.

Nashville Police are warning residents to keep their doors locked and their eyes open for a partially nude man following a shooting early Sunday morning that left four people dead.

There is reason to believe, police say, that the suspect at large is carrying two guns that were not found during a search of the gunman's home.

A man wearing only a green jacket shot three people dead at a Waffle House. One person later died at a hospital where two others are being treated for injuries. Police say the suspect fled on foot, and is still on the loose. Eye witnesses tell police he stripped his jacket off near the restaurant, went back to his nearby apartment and put on a pair of pants. He was last seen wearing only black pants.

The police have identified the suspect as 29-year-old Travis Reinking of Morton, Ill. According to police spokesperson Dan Aaron, Reinking drove his pickup truck to the restaurant in Antioch, Tenn. and shot people talking in the parking lot, then continued on and opened fire inside.

A Waffle House patron who saw that the gunman was "apparently struggling or looking at" with his rifle, and took advantage of the moment by "rushing him," wresting the gun away and throwing it behind the counter - prompting the gunman to leave.

"He is the hero here, and no doubt he saved many lives," Aaron said. The patron suffered non-life threatening injuries, including a gash in his elbow.

Reinking was arrested by the U.S. Secret Service for being in a restricted area near the White House in July, 2017. He was subsequently released, Aaron said. Reinking's state firearm authorization was also revoked at the request of the FBI, and seized by Tazewell authorities in Illinois. Four of the guns seized were given to Reinking's father who, Aaron said, admitted to giving them back to his son. One of the firearms, the AR-15 was used in the shooting.

Waffle House called it a sad day for the restaurant's family.

Nashville's Mayor David Briley also took to Twitter to express his condolences.

Adding on Twitter, "There's clearly more to be said about these circumstances, but for now I ask Nashville to pray for and rally around these victims."

[Stercutus]

I'm gonna go well out on a limb here and suggest the shooter was taking mind altering drugs and maybe had mental problems. But the question on everyone's mind is that nobody saw a naked man running down the street at 2am and called the police. I mean being starkers in Waffle House is nothing new but on the street people will notice.

The ages of those killed and wounded are heartbreaking. None of over 30.

[MPMalloy]

No reports of a capture at this time.

Still at large.

[flybynight]

Reinking was arrested by the U.S. Secret Service for being in a restricted area near the White House in July, 2017. He was subsequently released, Aaron said. Reinking's state firearm authorization was also revoked at the request of the FBI, and seized by Tazewell authorities in Illinois. Four of the guns seized were given to Reinking's father who, Aaron said, admitted to giving them back to his son. One of the firearms, the AR-15 was used in the shooting.

SIMPLY AMAZING

[MPMalloy]

Reinking was arrested by the U.S. Secret Service for being in a restricted area near the White House in July, 2017. He was subsequently released, Aaron said. Reinking's state firearm authorization was also revoked at the request of the FBI, and seized by Tazewell authorities in Illinois. Four of the guns seized were given to Reinking's father who, Aaron said, admitted to giving them back to his son. One of the firearms, the AR-15 was used in the shooting.

SIMPLY AMAZING

In this case, the law did what it was supposed to do. Up to giving them to the father, who apparently gave them back to the shooter. I hope that is properly examined.

[12_Gauge_Chimp]

Reinking was arrested by the U.S. Secret Service for being in a restricted area near the White House in July, 2017. He was subsequently released, Aaron said. Reinking's state firearm authorization was also revoked at the request of the FBI, and seized by Tazewell authorities in Illinois. Four of the guns seized were given to Reinking's father who, Aaron said, admitted to giving them back to his son. One of the firearms, the AR-15 was used in the shooting.

SIMPLY AMAZING

In this case, the law did what it was supposed to do. Up to giving them to the father, who apparently gave them back to the shooter. I hope that is properly examined.

I get the feeling the Waffle House killer's dad might be picking up some charges as well once all is said and done.

As for the killer, my money is on him being either doped up to his eyeballs on either prescription meds or maybe some form of illegal narcotics. Either way, he's a jerk and I hope the cops find him soon.

[NT2C]

Waffle House bans firearms at all locations. I see how well that's working for them.