More guns: same calibre or different?

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aus.templar
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More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by aus.templar » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:51 am

To keep this short, you're buying new guns and it's possible to either get a calibre that is the same as an existing gun or choose a new one.

Off that info alone, fewer calibres and therefore commonality or more variety more chance of finding good deals on ammo or it being available?
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by emclean » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:13 am

first a couple questions
what is the new gun for? personal protection, home defense, snipe hunting, cool range toy, ect
how many calibers do you stock now? personally I avoid new handgun calibers, but I stock .22lr, .22wmr, 25acp, 380acp, 38sp, 357mag, 9mm, 45acp, and at some point should pick up some 7.62 nagant. (then again I am told that I am not average)

if I had only one gun in a certon caliber, then I would look into additional ones in that caliber, if they fit into what I was looking for. I would not buy one just cause it matches a stocked caliber.

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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by aus.templar » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:27 am

Have:
Handguns: Ruger MkIII Target .22 and Glock 17A 9mm (The G17A is a model for the Australian market, same as a normal 17 but the barrel is several millimetres longer to meet minimum length requirements and magazines are 10rounds)
Rifles: Marlin 925R bolt .22, Remington 7615 pump .223, Savage Edge bolt.308, Lithgow SMLE No1Mk3 bolt .303
Shotty: Winchester break-open 12g


The next handguns on the list are either a Sig P226 Dark Elite 9mm or HK USP .45
The next rifles on the list are a rem700 in .308 or .300WM, or a Rossi .357 Lever, or a Lithgow Crossfire .22
The next shotty I've already preordered is an Adler lever action shotty, but looking at one of those double action circuit judge rifles in .410 for the mrs... but dunno about quality.


Buying firearms for self defence in my country is illegal, my handguns are for target competitions, my longarms are for hunting or target shooting.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by Frieslander » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:06 am

In the US I don't think diversification really manages risk for you - 9mm and .45 Auto both trend about the same in panics based on data I've seen (i.e. they disappear). .40 S&W was the same in the first panic I saw in the Northeast, and it was only a little bit better in the Sandy Hook panics (this was in CT). It did come back first from what I saw, but I think that's demand-driven and it wasn't particularly dramatic.

At the time my carry gun was a .380 Auto and my other guns were 9mm - due to timing I think I had 200 rounds of .380 for the duration of the last panic and sat on them rather than burn them up in one range trip. Not really an ideal thing for a carry gun. I switched to a Glock 26 at the next opportunity I got.

My view is that if you want to protect yourself from ammo shortages, you want to control your ammunition supply to the degree that you can and use whatever capacity you have to smooth out jolts in the market (I am assuming nobody here is wealthy enough to stockpile a lifetime of ammunition in one go). Sticking with one cartridge simplifies this a lot, and adds the convenience of only having to deal with one ammunition pool or pool of components.

I think the idea is to work on not caring about what's going on at the gun counter, and not to work on maximizing your chances of bumping into the right ammunition when you get there.

It also gives you a degree of flexibility. I can go work on DA/SA with my Beretta, punch paper with my G34, or brush up on my G26 for carry (possibly all in the same trip) and never have to think about whether or not I've got the right ammo. Keeps things simple.

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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by woodsghost » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:20 pm

During the US ammo panics, "off-brand" calibers worked real well. 5.45x39 was plentiful, and cheap compared to other calibers. 7.62x54 was also common enough and cheap enough. .357 Sig was pretty readily available. 40 S&W was not as scarce as other pistol calibers. I"ll wager 7.5 Swiss was no more difficult than normal to find.

However, high-demand calibers were the ones to bounce back first. 5.56 & .223, and 9mm being the ones to hit the shelves first, get bought out, fill the shelves, get bought out.... until the panic subsided and they were common, pricey, but common, while other calibers took longer to recover.

If a disaster happens, the only ammo you can count on is the ammo you have on hand, right now. That is one key lesson I learned from the panic. It might be worth considering taking the money for a new gun and investing it in ammo.

On the one hand, having another gun which uses another caliber allows you to buy/barter for available ammo. On the other hand, having more ammo already in storage means you are less likely to need to buy/barter for ammo. At least you can go longer before needing to buy/barter. When buying/bartering, I think it is better to be able to use something common, but then also be able to use something uncommon, something which there might be a decent supply of, but most people overlook it because it is "not tactical" or "too rare."

Just my $.02
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by Stercutus » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:39 pm

Off that info alone, fewer calibres and therefore commonality
I don't really buy a caliber I don't need for some purpose.
or more variety more chance of finding good deals on ammo or it being available?
Ammo is pretty consistent in pricing with a few outliers and the occasional run on certain types like .22 and 5.56. .40 S&W on sale for example will normally still cost more than the same type and brand of 9mm. .45 ACP will cost more than the .40.

During an ammopococlypse after some good old fashioned political grand standing in the US nothing will be available. The same is true during a disaster.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by aus.templar » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:06 pm

I've got about 17000rounds at the moment, mostly 9mm, .223 and .22LR. Less than 1000 .308 and less than 200 12g. So I need some more .308 and 12g and also .303, I've basically got none.

So having ammo to shoot now isn't a big concern for me right now
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by emclean » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:04 pm

in that case, go for the different calibers, to give you different options of fun.

the Rossi leaver action is OK, but if you could I would spend the extra for a Hennery in the same caliber. part of me wishes I had (OTOH, Hennery doesn't make them in stainless steel)

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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by TheZone » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:20 pm

Its simple: stockpile when its cheap, whenever its cheap. Replace it as you use it. Then when a crisis hits, you're fine.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:42 pm

aus.templar wrote:Have:
Handguns: Ruger MkIII Target .22 and Glock 17A 9mm (The G17A is a model for the Australian market, same as a normal 17 but the barrel is several millimetres longer to meet minimum length requirements and magazines are 10rounds)
Rifles: Marlin 925R bolt .22, Remington 7615 pump .223, Savage Edge bolt.308, Lithgow SMLE No1Mk3 bolt .303
Shotty: Winchester break-open 12g


The next handguns on the list are either a Sig P226 Dark Elite 9mm or HK USP .45
The next rifles on the list are a rem700 in .308 or .300WM, or a Rossi .357 Lever, or a Lithgow Crossfire .22
The next shotty I've already preordered is an Adler lever action shotty, but looking at one of those double action circuit judge rifles in .410 for the mrs... but dunno about quality.


Buying firearms for self defence in my country is illegal, my handguns are for target competitions, my longarms are for hunting or target shooting.
I don't see any reason to get into more calibers, based on this. I don't know about handloading in the land down under, but homebrewing lighter-recoiling loads in 12ga would likely be more profitable than the Circuit Judge. Rossi I believe also makes a lever-action .410 if you would look at that. The only other thing I'd add is to probably avoid the Remington rifles, and look at maybe a Lithgow or one of the European imports instead. Been some real quality issues of late with Big Green, and overseas warranty work isn't soemthing you want to be dealing with. I don't believ there's any game big enough to warrant a WM chambering, either.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by madoka » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:09 pm

aus.templar wrote:I've got about 17000rounds at the moment, mostly 9mm, .223 and .22LR. Less than 1000 .308 and less than 200 12g. So I need some more .308 and 12g and also .303, I've basically got none.
If you have plenty of ammo, I'd go ahead and diversify. Plus it gets boring just shooting the same caliber over and over again. Even though I've got a wide range of 9mm handguns (e.g. over 70 of them), it's more fun to switch it up to 40 cal or .45 or 5.7 or 22.

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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by aus.templar » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:20 pm

Good point on the rossi .410, I'll look into those.

Handloading is common, more common than finding components really. Powder and primers are frequently out of stock. Also I dont have time or space to set up a reloading bench at the moment so underloaded 12g isnt really an option though I do plan on it.

.300WM is fairly commonly used on some of the bigger deer we have in my state, other states have some long range camel culling and that sort of thing which would see a bit it of use.

I'm leaning towards the sig 226 at the moment as it would get the most use. And if I can find levers in .357 and .410 at a decent price I'll snap them up.
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SMoAF wrote: I collect foodstuffs so that I can stay alive long enough to exhaust my ammo supply.
jamoni wrote: You win. I hope it helps you get chicks.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:54 pm

I like the ballistics of a good 7mm myself over the .300WM, but it's all fairly semantic at that point. 6.5mm/.260 loads will also stay very flat at distance with a high BC and muzzle velocity, but tend to arrive with less oomph than the 7mm loadings.

My reloading setup nearly fits in a cardboard boot box, and all I need is a table or desk to bolt it to. Some folks have these neat cabinets set up too. Even if you have a separate press for shotgun and rifle, it's not terribly bulky to do just a turret or single-stage.

That said, managed-recoil loads are becoming popular, particularly with shotgun loads. Winchester makes both a low-recoil/low noise line and their WinLite line, Federal and Fiocchi both make buckshot and slugs in low-recoil configurations, often with a better wad for close-in deer and large fowl. I'm not sure if shotguns are used that way where you are, but several places in the US don't allow the use of rifles, just black powder, shotguns, bows, or handguns.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by Frieslander » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:13 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:My reloading setup nearly fits in a cardboard boot box, and all I need is a table or desk to bolt it to. Some folks have these neat cabinets set up too. Even if you have a separate press for shotgun and rifle, it's not terribly bulky to do just a turret or single-stage.
Also, eight (or four) 90-degree corner ties, some #8 1.25" wood screws, a half- or quarter-sheet of 3/4" plywood and a few 2x4s slap together into a rock-solid reloading bench in like two hours or less.

I built a 6' workbench last weekend with those ties and it really simplifies things. I had to cut everything with a handsaw, which was a PITA, and I think it was still like three hours start to finish going slowly in Alabama heat.

Just saying.

I'm glad the .260s are getting more mainstream interest. .264" is an awesome bullet - if I was to throw down on a non-.243" centerfire bolt gun and had access to a press it would be a .260 Remington. 6.5mm isn't going anywhere.

OP, if you do handload I can see where going into a cartridge that's derivative of a chambering you already shoot is attractive. Forming .308 brass into .260 Rem brass is fairly straightforward since it's just a neckdown. So, potentially you could move into another cartridge with just another bullet size since .260 and .308 overlap in terms of propellant (off the top of my head I think IMR4064, IMR4895, and Varget are all fairly typical .260 Rem powders).

But that won't get you 7mm Mag or .300 Win Mag power, so YMMV.

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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by NamelessStain » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:29 pm

aus.templar wrote:Good point on the rossi .410, I'll look into those.
Just a friendly reminder, .410 ammo is usually about twice as much as 12g ammo (at least where I live).

BTW, this topic is a long an argued one. Commonality vs diversity.

Edit:
The last time I checked, a Rossi matched pair .22LR/.410 was about $200 US.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by 91Eunozs » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:30 pm

Learned my lesson from a couple years ago...the only ammo I can count on is the ammo I already have on hand or stashed.

I stack deep and reload/stock reloading supplies (where applicable) in my preferred calibers:

.22 LR
.223/5.56
300BLK
.45 ACP
12 gauge, pretty even mix of #8 birdshot and 00Buck plus a few boxes of random 12 gauge flavors

And with the aquisition of another .308 rifle now slowly building the reserves in that caliber as well.

I also keep a few boxes of rounds my friends carry/shoot such as .38, .357, and .44; and have a couple hundred rounds of both 9mm and 7.62x39 because reasons...though I no longer own a single firearm in these calibers.
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Re: More guns: same calibre or different?

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:26 pm

See, I go for diversity. Here in California, 9mm, .45 ACP, .223, 7.62x39, .308, .30-06, and any 12 gauge shell other than the bulk trap loads went poof within days. Some of the "off" calibers like .243, .270, .380 ACP and .32 ACP stayed on the shelves for several months. Even .40 S&W was somewhat available. Because I had different calibers that I could use, I was able to stock up on some of the oddballs, even in the middle of a panic. I also reload, so had things gotten worse, I could have kept things running for some time with the supplies I have on hand. Or fallen back on some of the more obscure guns in my collection that I may only have 100-200 rounds for. I mean 8x50R Lebel isn't very tacti-cool. But even out of an old rolling block rifle it will ruin your day. And so what if I only have a limited number of rounds for something. I can always drop it and move on to the next toy, and the next. Those low round counts may not be sustainable long term, but they add up.

All that being said, I have ended up getting extra barrels for my M&P pistols. I went with the .40 version to start with, as you can swap out just the barrel, and go with .357 Sig. Or change the barrel and mag and go with 9mm. That gives me three calibers that I can use in the same platform with less than 3 minutes to change between them.

Oh, and if you do a search on here, you should be able to find my article on turning those bulk trap shells into something a bit more effective against zombies. Using nothing more than a round ball mold and a small screwdriver.

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