5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

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nwprepperman
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5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by nwprepperman » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:33 pm

If you haven't heard, read this: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2015021 ... ar-15-ammo

Of course, now it's sold out most places. I just bought some here, but I'd act fast if you need any.

http://www.ammunitionsupplycompany.com/?Click=39284

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by ManInBlack316 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:15 pm

Was just at Walmart last night, standing behind a guy buying $900 worth off ammunition (And I was jealous of the purchase) who was adamant that "Obama banned all 5.56 via executive order Friday, it goes into effect Monday".
Both the guy at the counter and I were just standing there scratching our heads.
Get ready for another run 5.56 because people are going crazy and it'll probably drive the prices up for awhile.

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Stercutus » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:48 pm

Maybe not use a lobbying organization press release as a source. Instead into the belly of the beast...

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... rposes.pdf

Dog fuckers says I. And really the fault is not on the part of the dog either.

Skip down to the bottom of page 14 for the relevant stuff....How much does an AK bullet jacket weigh? I know the Chinese stuff is already banned.


5.56 had financially gotten low enough where I bought a couple of cans.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Mall Ninja » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:14 pm

Given that pretty much any .223/5.56 round is capable of defeating soft armor when fired from an AR pistol, their rational seems disingenuous at best.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Stercutus » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:20 pm

Mall Ninja wrote:Given that pretty much any .223/5.56 round is capable of defeating soft armor when fired from an AR pistol, their rational seems disingenuous at best.
That is because the code definition of what is "armor piercing" has absolutely nothing to do with the capability of the ammo to pierce armor.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Halfapint » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:42 pm

I called asshattery until I read the ATF report linked above. It sounds like the reason it is getting the exemption is because of the popularity of AR pistols. Well that certainly sucks... Thanks for the good info there Stercutus.

It also states that they are currently in a discussion phase, so you should be able to write the ATF, perhaps getting some of the other wording like the armor piercing portion, and perhaps the pistol wording changed so that M855 is legal.

Luckily, I just purchased enough to last me.... a long time.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:20 pm

man, just when I finally convinced myself I don't like m855 as a round I get the itch to go buy more.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by We'reWolf » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:25 pm

sounds like they need to redefine what a "pistol" is
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by quazi » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:29 pm

My understanding is that certain lead-free bullets (such as those made by Barnes) have an exemption from the ATF because they were determined to be for "sporting purposes." Would it be possible to make a "sporting purposes" argument when it comes to M855? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I can understand why they wrote the regulation the way they did, but unfortunately any regulation will have wacky repercussions when they try to apply it consistently to the ever changing real world.

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Stercutus » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:02 pm

quazi wrote:My understanding is that certain lead-free bullets (such as those made by Barnes) have an exemption from the ATF because they were determined to be for "sporting purposes." Would it be possible to make a "sporting purposes" argument when it comes to M855? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I can understand why they wrote the regulation the way they did, but unfortunately any regulation will have wacky repercussions when they try to apply it consistently to the ever changing real world.
You should read the article. The round was already operating under an exemption. They just decided to withdraw it.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by 91Eunozs » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:03 pm

Hmmm... So if I happened to have a shit-ton of XM855 laying around I could probably sell it.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by raptor » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:12 pm

Interesting.
I was wondering what the folks on another forum were talking about. They noted that the price of M855 was already headed upward on several sites.
Last edited by raptor on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Halfapint » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:14 pm

91Eunozs wrote:Hmmm... So if I happened to have a shit-ton of XM855 laying around I could probably sell it.
If you have some might be a good time to sell it. Per the ATF code owing it isn't illegal, but you will no longer be able to "buy" it. So if it does get banned, then selling could potentially become a big no no.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by 91Eunozs » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:48 pm

Funny thing is, I'm not even that big a fan of XM855 but now I want some!

Predictable human response... And will only lead to fueling the fire if we act on it.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by quazi » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:34 am

Stercutus wrote:
quazi wrote:My understanding is that certain lead-free bullets (such as those made by Barnes) have an exemption from the ATF because they were determined to be for "sporting purposes." Would it be possible to make a "sporting purposes" argument when it comes to M855? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I can understand why they wrote the regulation the way they did, but unfortunately any regulation will have wacky repercussions when they try to apply it consistently to the ever changing real world.
You should read the article. The round was already operating under an exemption. They just decided to withdraw it.
D'oh! It always irks me when people don't bother to read the original article, and now I have become what I hate. :oops:

If I'm reading the wording of Category II correctly, this could get even worse fast if TBTB decide not to allow any exemptions.

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Stercutus » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:12 am

quazi wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
quazi wrote:My understanding is that certain lead-free bullets (such as those made by Barnes) have an exemption from the ATF because they were determined to be for "sporting purposes." Would it be possible to make a "sporting purposes" argument when it comes to M855? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

I can understand why they wrote the regulation the way they did, but unfortunately any regulation will have wacky repercussions when they try to apply it consistently to the ever changing real world.
You should read the article. The round was already operating under an exemption. They just decided to withdraw it.
D'oh! It always irks me when people don't bother to read the original article, and now I have become what I hate. :oops:

If I'm reading the wording of Category II correctly, this could get even worse fast if TBTB decide not to allow any exemptions.
Hard to say. This may just be a test case. It will definitely cause the price of ALL 5.56 to go back up in the short term.

This is kind of a whacky way to ban ammo. I don't know of anyone who carries an AR pistol around with them either good guys or bad guys. I have never even heard of an AR pistol being used in an attack on a police officer with M855 penetrating a vest. The idea that this has suddenly become a problem for officer safety seems to be false dichotomy of the first degree. I have my doubts that any police officer, at least in Alabama will suddenly feel even the slightest bit safer now that we have this dangerous "armor piercing handgun ammunition" off the street.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by nwprepperman » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:28 pm

If anyone is looking to buy some, they still have it in stock here, price went up a bit from yesterday when I got some, but not price gouging levels yet.
http://www.ammunitionsupplycompany.com/?Click=39284

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:31 pm

I know I'm a bad person, but the temptation to buy a bunch of M193, some green nail polish, and make a buttload of money at the next gun show is nearly overwhelming.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by 91Eunozs » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:37 pm

Well, I noticed on Ammoseek that the ~100 vendors selling XM855 last night has dropped to just 5 vendors. Prices up moderately.

Tried to grab some from PSA last night...$169.99 and free shipping for 420-rds of Federal in a 30 cal can. Every time I added it to my cart it said "you have zero items in your cart" though and I couldn't even log in to my account. Probably too many people trying to buy XM855 last night! :lol:

I did see some left at Academy and at Cabela's today. Only 900-rd cans of Rio brand M855 were left at my local Academy, about $450 I think. All the 20-rd boxes, as well as the 60 and 120-rd "bulk" cardboard and plastic boxes were gone, as were the 420-rd Federal bulk packs in the skinny little 30mm ammo cans. Gone...

Cabela's had a bunch of the P-Tac green tip as well as the Federal/American Eagle 20-rd boxes for $9.99 still on the shelves, as well as the sealed vinyl bag 120-rd "battle packs" of P-Tac for $79.99. They did have a couple dozen 450-rd 50-cal cans of the Federal XM855 for $229.99 though...I couldn't help myself and bought two cans even though that's a lot more than I've been paying for 5.56/.223 lately. I did get a military discount and a $25 coupon for my next purchase >$100 to help offset the price though...

Makes me wish I'd been able to convince my buddy to go in w/me to buy that 12,500-rd barrel of XM855 sitting at Academy when it dropped to under $5K earlier this summer. I do have a few of the Federal 300-rd bulk cardboard boxes and a couple 50 cal cans full of 20-rd boxes of XM855 from various manufacturers though; between that and what I grabbed today I should be gtg for awhile!

EDIT: Tons of every other flavor of .223 and 5.56 in stock everywhere.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Stercutus » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:17 pm

Ironically a lot of police departments train with M855 because it was so cheap and is consistent.
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:I know I'm a bad person, but the temptation to buy a bunch of M193, some green nail polish, and make a buttload of money at the next gun show is nearly overwhelming.
:lol:

Years ago used to be black paint and a round of 7.62X63 was the thing at the gun show. They would swear it was armor piercing making it worth almost ten times the amount of a regular surplus round.

Just spread rumors that M193 is next on the list. You can still take home a pile of cash yet...
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by kbi » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:03 pm

raptor wrote:Interesting.
I was wondering what the folks on another forum were talking about. They noted that the price of M855 was already headed upward on several sites.
Ive been watching the M855/XM855/SS109 prices all weekend .

People asking $1.00 to a 2.00 on Gunbroker

Prices on ammoseek.com creeping up past .50 cents and wikiarms ammo vendors delisting ammo

The Equipment exchanges are just as bad.

And M193 and winchester Q3131 5.56x45 were at .50-.65 cents on the low end to .97-1.07 on the high end ( smdh ) earlier .




Unfortunately the ATF has already made up there mind in reclassifying M855/XM855/SS109 ammo. We need our rep's to get involve and our gun lobbies.

#1 If you plan on selling those rounds after 3/15/2015 people will be in violation of fed law .

#2 And forget loading your own ( no projos for sale ) either after siad date


The kicker for me is the feds say you can keep what you own but thats federal but on a state level if the rounds are reclassified as AP then people that live in states with AP ammo bans will be in trouble.

And if the ATF realizes they can go after one round for whatever reason they can go after other round's like .300 blackout or 6.8spc or 7.62x39 because they can.
Last edited by kbi on Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:10 pm

kbi wrote:
#1 If you plan on selling those rounds after 3/15/2015 people will be in violation of fed law .

#2 And forget loading your own ( no projos for sale ) either after said date

My understanding was that you couldn't manufacture or conduct retail sale. Got a link to where it says those who already owned projectiles can't reload them?
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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by Kommander » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:15 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
kbi wrote:
#1 If you plan on selling those rounds after 3/15/2015 people will be in violation of fed law .

#2 And forget loading your own ( no projos for sale ) either after said date

My understanding was that you couldn't manufacture or conduct retail sale. Got a link to where it says those who already owned projectiles can't reload them?
I think he means that one will be unable to buy new projectiles for reloading after the ban, though could reloading the bullets be considered manufacturing ammo if one already has the bullets?
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: 5.56mm Green Tip M855 Could be banned

Post by kbi » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:26 pm

Kommander wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
kbi wrote:
#1 If you plan on selling those rounds after 3/15/2015 people will be in violation of fed law .

#2 And forget loading your own ( no projos for sale ) either after said date

My understanding was that you couldn't manufacture or conduct retail sale. Got a link to where it says those who already owned projectiles can't reload them?
I think he means that one will be unable to buy new projectiles for reloading after the ban, though could reloading the bullets be considered manufacturing ammo if one already has the bullets?
Exactly what was siad.

Whatever bullets/projectiles people have will be it . No more resupplying after midnight 3/15/2015

People at arfcom have been hitting reloading supply websites buying bullets/projectiles by the thousands


Hopefully a year from now people arent at the range and some suit shows up saying were you get that ammo! Prove it to me!
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