Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quantity

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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by eugene » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:26 pm

crypto wrote:The two big differences I see between good quality factory ammo and home reloads are

1. sealed primers
2. a solid quality case crimp.


Here's my "generic reload story":
I've been at training classes and usually when someone's AR starts chronically breaking down and confusing them as to why it doesnt work, its ammo. And its usually reloads, despite being told not to bring reloads. And its always a mystery to the shooter as to why its not working, and they've "never had any problems with this recipe before". And when you de-load a magazine, you almost always find that the bullets are set back in the cases from rattling around due to someone running the ammo harder and faster than they normally do, and banging the rifle around a lot more than they normally do.

I've been in a class where dudebro literally had powder running out of the floorplate hole of his mag, because bullets were pushed all the way into the case. Dave will back me up on that particular story.
I hadn't though about that scenario. I'm going to take a sample of my loads record the OAL and stick them in a couple magazines then carry them in one of the outer pockets of my INCH for a year or so then measure again. I have a couple mags I don;t use because they came with the pinky extension baseplate. I could manually rack the slide and feed them all through a few times, maybe drop the mags on the ground a couple of times. What other tests.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by crypto » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:36 pm

eugene wrote:. What other tests.

bang the front spine of the loaded mag on something hard a couple dozen times to simulate recoil, thats what's pushing the bullets in.



Anyway, the moral of the story is that you should put a good healthy cannelure crimp on the bullet like they do at the factory. And seal your primers.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Gingerbread Man » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:45 pm

Yes, if you reload a mag fed rifle crimp them. Keep your crimp hand strong.

And test and re test the load. Then go into production on a proven load for your gun. Use good name brand components.

Seems like a good bit but nothing sucks worse than going back and redoing a bunch of cartridges because they're out of spec or fail.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by LJ126 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:13 pm

7.62x39: Red Army Standard Elite, M67 like stuff. It's brass cased, boxer primed non-magnetic FMJ with a sealed primer and bullet. It's affordably priced non-corrosive stuff that'll outlast any of us here.

5.56x45: PMC XTAC 55gr FMJ. Cheap and goes bang. Sealed primer.

9mm: Not picky, but the department keeps my pistol mags filled with 147gr. Winchester Ranger JHP... The stockpile is mostly PMC 9mm. Again, cheap and goes bang.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by BullOnParade » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:06 am

Gingerbread Man wrote:Yes, if you reload a mag fed rifle crimp them. Keep your crimp hand strong.

And test and re test the load. Then go into production on a proven load for your gun. Use good name brand components.

Seems like a good bit but nothing sucks worse than going back and redoing a bunch of cartridges because they're out of spec or fail.
Lee factory crimp dies are where it's at. They don't exist for all rounds, but I have one for 9mm and .223.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Dabster » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:14 pm

Sorry to distract from the reloading love/hate fest...

I just bought my first batch of bulk ammo. Usually I have gotten ammunition in ammo cases in nice civilized cardboard boxes This is a mound of bullets in a thick but non-sealable plastic bag inside of a fairly weak cardboard box. I do not expect to store this for a very long time but I do not want it to fail because I stored it improperly.

I have heard the suggestion of storing all of it in magazines but for several reasons, chief among those -I don't have that many magazines and storing then transporting cartridges in magazines isn't convenient for me.

I have thought of getting a surplus ammo can (Plastic or medal), carefully placing them into it and then toping it off with some descants but I am not sure if my grubby fingers and laying in a metal box will be better than their current location.

Finally I've thought of getting several somethings like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I8N ... merReviews

In any case it will be stored in a fairly dry and heated basement.

What do the informed brethren of Zombie Squad recommend?

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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:15 pm

Ziploc bags work. Put them inside cardboard boxes. Use the money you saved to buy more magazines.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by LJ126 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:42 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Ziploc bags work. Put them inside cardboard boxes. Use the money you saved to buy more magazines.
This.

Original factory packaging is inefficient for storage, you may as well dump 'em into ziplock bags. Wanna get super fancy? Use the nice thick double-lock freezer bags and toss a few desiccant packets in too.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by raptor » Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:12 pm

LJ126 wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Ziploc bags work. Put them inside cardboard boxes. Use the money you saved to buy more magazines.
This.

Original factory packaging is inefficient for storage, you may as well dump 'em into ziplock bags. Wanna get super fancy? Use the nice thick double-lock freezer bags and toss a few desiccant packets in too.
If you do this rip off the carton label to keep the lot # and date of manufacturer and throw it in the baggee. It will help you keep track if there is a recall or you find out that you have a bad lot.

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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by eugene » Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:40 pm

BullOnParade wrote:
Gingerbread Man wrote:Yes, if you reload a mag fed rifle crimp them. Keep your crimp hand strong.

And test and re test the load. Then go into production on a proven load for your gun. Use good name brand components.

Seems like a good bit but nothing sucks worse than going back and redoing a bunch of cartridges because they're out of spec or fail.
Lee factory crimp dies are where it's at. They don't exist for all rounds, but I have one for 9mm and .223.
Thats what I have too. I'm putting a light crimp on them as people have said its easy to mess up the plating on the Berry's if you crimp too much
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by TheLastOne » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:07 pm

raptor wrote:
LJ126 wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Ziploc bags work. Put them inside cardboard boxes. Use the money you saved to buy more magazines.
This.

Original factory packaging is inefficient for storage, you may as well dump 'em into ziplock bags. Wanna get super fancy? Use the nice thick double-lock freezer bags and toss a few desiccant packets in too.
If you do this rip off the carton label to keep the lot # and date of manufacturer and throw it in the baggee. It will help you keep track if there is a recall or you find out that you have a bad lot.
I do this but also put the ziplocks in the cheap ammo cans from bass pro (9$?). I leave the bags open and have a desiccant bag in each can. Def keep a label in there for recalls. Learned that the hard way with my hornady crit duty this year with a recall. :|
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by woodsghost » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:43 pm

Dabster,


The plastic ammo can wannabes are great for storing ammo, but not great if you expect your ammo to be exposed to a flood, or the septic tank backing up, or similar. The experiences I have read are that you should only trust real military ammo cans (and seals) if these are possibilities in your life. Otherwise, use 'em! They are cheap and handy!
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Das Sheep » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:26 pm

For me I figure I have a lot of armed friends who don't have much ammo. So I put away a lot of cheap ball ammo for pistols and lots of cheaper shotgun, am and ar ammo. No more steal ammo for the AR though since I have had problems with it in several guns.


I also have almost 1k critical duty 9mm and about 3k m193 for myself for my own quality "fighting" ammo.

So I guess I have quality and quantity?

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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Smash05 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:14 pm

I have a minimum of 500 rounds of JHP stockpiled 9mm, 45, 38/357. 400 rounds of barrier 5.56mm ammo, 100 rounds of hornady amax 30-06 match plus 1900 round of milsurp ball and 400 rds of ap. I actually presumed that the JHP would be tough to come by years ago, so that is what I stacked deep. FMJ is pretty easy to come by, and I have kept around 1k per each pistol caliber, trying to reload or replace as I shoot.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by angelofwar » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:35 pm

This may sound "silly" to some, but, in times of low ammo, hard cash, I have to make do, so, I've come up with the following mindset. I keep quality rounds in limited numbers for all my main defense weapons (PDX rounds, e.g.), however, I'm not going to buy 2000 rounds of .38 special PDX. The more expensive ammo is for the more likely scenarios...for ZPAW, lead and FMJ work fine...half the time, if engaged by hoards of vandals, it will be about getting rounds down range, if not to dissuade, then to incapacitate, rather than a home invasion where every shot counts. So, I keep a small stash of quality defense ammo for each caliber, and then I buy tons of cheap stuff for SHTF. The money saved is better spent on other countermeasures/preps. If I have a cheap round of .45 ACP jam my weapon and put it out of service, I have 10 other weapons I can switch to.

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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by LJ126 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:19 am

Cheap ammo is okay, provided it consistently works for you in your weapons. Given that ammunition and feeding devices are the sources of most firearms malfunctions, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to skimp in these departments. But if it works for you, it works.
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Stock piling for the end

Post by learntwoshoot » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:14 am

Stockpiling for the end?

Well I recommend what you would use to practice with so you can rotate stores out when needed:

Multi-Purpose/practice ammo - .223/5.56 - Winchester Q3131 or Q3131A, or Federals XM193 in 55gr FMJ.
Self Defense ammo in .223/5.56 - Winchester X223R2BP 64gr bonded bullet, Winchester X223R2 64gr Power Point, or Federals Fusion F223FS1 bonded bullet in 62gr SP

Multi-Purpose/practice ammo - 9mm - Winchester White box dont have product number off hand or Speer Law Man in mid weight loads FMJ
Self-Defense ammo - 9mm - Speer Gold Dot 23618 124 GDHP, Speer Gold Dot 23619 147 GDHP or Federals P9HS1 124 JHP Hydra Shock , P9HST1S 124 JHP HST , or P9HS2 147 JHP Hydra Shock

Multi-Purpose/practice ammo - 40 S&W Speer Law Man, Federals American Eagle, Winchester White Box
Self-Defense Ammo - 40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 23970 165 GDHP, Speer Gold Dot 23962 180 GDHP or a federals brand equivilant

12ga - Hunting loads usally starting with #4 shot on up in varying sizes for hunting purposes

Any other paticular caliber questions I can answer on a case by case quesiton.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Jeriah » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:38 pm

LJ126 wrote:Cheap ammo is okay, provided it consistently works for you in your weapons. Given that ammunition and feeding devices are the sources of most firearms malfunctions, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to skimp in these departments. But if it works for you, it works.
I'm trying to stock up on cheapo steel-cased whatever in case I want to do a 1K round count class on short notice, since it works fine in my weapons and is cheap.

For an "end of days" stockpile, though, cheap steel cased 5.56mm is underpowered and thick-jacketed, so it is unlikely to fragment, therefore its terminal performance is questionable. Sure better than nothing, but not ideal in terms of killing what needs killing, should it come to that.

On the other hand, four rounds of moderately-priced XM193 beats one round of fancypants sub-MOA sniper magick.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by woodsghost » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:56 pm

1000 rnds of steel is Not too hard to do at the moment.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... +55grn+FMJ

There might be other deals going on right now too with other companies.

Slightly cheaper here, but shipping might even things out.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-perf ... -steel-cas


For not much more, 1000 of brass cased ammo. Sold out, but they want you to know there is more on the way.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-perf ... rain-fmj-b
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Jeriah » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:08 pm

woodsghost wrote:1000 rnds of steel is Not too hard to do at the moment.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... +55grn+FMJ

There might be other deals going on right now too with other companies.

Slightly cheaper here, but shipping might even things out.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-perf ... -steel-cas


For not much more, 1000 of brass cased ammo. Sold out, but they want you to know there is more on the way.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-perf ... rain-fmj-b
I just picked up a spam can at Mall-Wart the other day. Price was comparable once you consider shipping. I mostly liked it because it's like a fuck you to their three box a day limit. :lol:

I don't have a "done" amount. I've been shooting more lately, so I've just been trying to replace what I shoot and then some. I'm actually probably at around 1K in 5.56mm; 500 steel cased still in the Spam can, plus another 500 of brass American Eagle loaded into all my mags. Minus three mags worth that I shot the other day.

Next time I see one I'm gonna get another Spam can of steel case in case of impromptu class, and then try to get a case of XM193 for SHTF. At that point I'll just buy enough to replace what I shoot and keep my mags full, so probably 1500 rounds on hand at any given time.

Still got x39, 9mm, .45ACP, and 12 gauge to work on. Might sell my Glock 21 or trade it for a Glock 19, just to take 45 out of the equation. But it's fun to shoot, so...meh. Not a pressing concern.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by woodsghost » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:12 pm

Jeriah wrote: I just picked up a spam can at Mall-Wart the other day. Price was comparable once you consider shipping. I mostly liked it because it's like a fuck you to their three box a day limit. :lol:
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by Brotherbadger » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:02 am

woodsghost wrote:1000 rnds of steel is Not too hard to do at the moment.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx? ... +55grn+FMJ

There might be other deals going on right now too with other companies.

Slightly cheaper here, but shipping might even things out.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-perf ... -steel-cas


For not much more, 1000 of brass cased ammo. Sold out, but they want you to know there is more on the way.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-perf ... rain-fmj-b
Gah, those are some great deals. :clap: I'm still holding out for Black Friday. I think we will continue to see these kinds of prices though. The market is absolutely saturated right now. I love it.
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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by raptor » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:13 pm

Natchez Shooters supply is running a sale on PMC and American Eagle 5.56mm as well as bulk 5.56mm from Independence.

$6.24 for 20
http://www.natchezss.com/index.cfm


Target sports is running a special on Wolf Gold.
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/wolf-go ... -4316.aspx

$5.99 for 20

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Re: Ammunition stockpiling: questions re: quality and quant

Post by zobmiedown » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:36 pm

Back when I was working I used to buy factory ammo in large quantities on a regular basis. Now the only factory loads I buy are for guns that I do not already have a surplus (IE: the 380 and 243 that my father in law just gave my wife and daughter out of his collection) shot gun ammo as I can not reload that on my equipment and on the rare occasion I find a great deal on brass cased sheep factory stuff. I do have 1k of cheep steal cased in .223 and 9mm from my previous stockings. I don't buy any new steel cased as I reload my own these days. The one exception to this is 22lr. When if I come across any on shelves (which is very rare as in 100 rounds in the last year) I do get all I can. Since things got stupid and 22lr disappeared I have not fired a single round in that caliber opting instead to shoot center fire calibers I can reload over and over again.

I currently have almost 15k of factory ammo in the 12 various calibers I stock so I am good on factory ammo.

I have in the last year reloaded almost 10k worth for the various calibers I have weapons to feed. Currently have 3k of 9mm casings already processed and primed and waiting on powder and bullets as well as small amounts in the rest of my calibers. I reload in caliber blocks. So when I finish the 9mm I will switch to the next one I have the most quantity of and so on as the others pile back up.

I have found my reloads to be 100% reliable and chronograph identical to factory loads of the same calibers for 10 shot averages. However my reloads produce tighter groups.

For a period of time when factory did not exist I could still get reloading components thereby increasing my stores, saving money, and still shoot often.

The CFO of my house does not complain about my reloading but does if I buy factory in any quantity, so I not only save on the cost but also on the complaint department.

I inspect every casing multiple times during the process trim every one to uniform length and measure every round for COL as well as crimp every round I make. I do all my loading on a Dillon 550 but I do not do every process at once. I de-prime every casing in all calibers on a lee single stage that I keep a universal de-priming die on 24/7/365. Very quick and efficient as switching calibers is a matter of seconds. I resize and flare as necessary on the Dillon then hand prime each one then go back to the Dillon to seat and crimp each round. All powder is done by hand using a hornandy digital powder scale. Yes I could use the Dillon to do the auto powder measuring I just choose not too as I am more comfortable with the quality of my loads measuring each one individually.

In my area there is no shortage of people shooting and leaving their casings behind for me to claim as my own. My children love to go pick up the fired casing with me as well as the fired lead from the river bank where every one shoots. We pick up every single casing we find. Steel cased, 22lr and damaged brass gets sorted into coffee cans and ends up at the recycling center in exchange for cash that then gets divided among the threes kids savings accounts. Reloadable brass gets sorted by weather or not I can make use of it or in the case of calibers I do not have weapons for it either goes to my brother in law if he loads for them or to the swap meet where there is a guy that sells his reloads. I trade the brass for more either 380 or 38spl as I then use it for range ammo and reload it with my preferred loads. The fired lead we collect got melted down earlier this week (a folgers can and a 1/4 worth) is now in the form of 23 1lb ingots. That I will then once I finish melting the rest of the bulk lead I acquired from various sources into the 1lb ingot I will start casting my own 38spl range bullets. Eventually moving on to other calibers for practice rounds. Time is not a concern in any of this as I am home all day with nothing else to do on a regular basis while the kids are in school so it not only increases my ammo count, saves money, produces better or equivalent to factory loads, but also gives me something productive to do all day. Add in that I also get more range time as I have plenty of renewable ammo to work and train with. Lastly I also take the fired casing and reload batches of quality hollow points vs buying those at premium prices which is another win for me. All of my ammo factory or reload is stored in either the factory packaging or in the case of my home rolled in plastic boxes with the load data on adhesive labels on the box and all of it in milsurp ammo cans that are labeled on the exterior with gel packs and in locked steel cabinets. All of my reloading components are in a wood cabinet across the aisle from my loaded rounds. Oh and I also get caught up on various tv shows off of the dvr while processing the brass and hand priming it so I consider it multi tasking.
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