Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

General discussions regarding topics that aren't covered in one of the other sub-forums. NO DISCUSSION OF POLITICS!

Moderators: ZS Global Moderators, ZS Postal Match Officers

Locked
User avatar
chills1994
* * * * *
Posts: 1659
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:25 am
Location: metro east of St. Louis

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by chills1994 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:37 am

Code: Select all

[quote="12_Gauge_Chimp"]Regarding barrel length, I'm thinking of picking up a Ruger GP100 and I'm torn between getting one with a 4" barrel or one with a 6" barrel. I've never owned a pistol with a long barrel and I was thinking the 6" barrel model might have a little more weight to help with recoil, but I'm probably wrong.

If y'all were in my situation, which barrel length would y'all get ?[/quote]

Here in Illinois, they do allow deer hunting with revolvers/handguns, so I would first check if the law has a min barrel length requirement for hunting.

Up until 2005, in IDPA, 5 inch revolvers were all the rage.  Then the new rulebook came out and barrels could only be 4 inches.

They also split revos into two divisions, Enhanced Service Revolver and Stock Service Revolver.  IIRC, ESR was mainly for your .45 ACP S&W 625's fed with moonclips.  The SSR division was meant for say model 10's and 686's fed with speedloaders typically using .38 Special brass.

The problem was that with one less inch of barrel length with .38's they couldn't get the velocity up in factory ammo in order to make power factor.

So a year or two ago, they dropped the power factor down to like 115 or 120.

And I think just recently IDPA HQ made even more changes to the revolver divisions.  Don't hold me to this, but they might have actually merged revo back into one division.

Anyway...maybe just something to keep in mind if you are going to feed the GP100 with .38's or .357's.
_______________________________________

Guns are icky!

User avatar
chills1994
* * * * *
Posts: 1659
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:25 am
Location: metro east of St. Louis

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by chills1994 » Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:42 am

Dave_M wrote:Image
Dave, nice pic, as always!

But I have to ask, the gun almost appears to be levitating above the target.

Is that just some artifact of digital photography?

Or is that some tweaks in photoshop?
_______________________________________

Guns are icky!

00dlez
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:20 pm

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 00dlez » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:24 am

crypto wrote:So this is my new hunting rifle.

In case anyone else is ever in this boat, the FR-8 birdcage uses a M15x1 RH thread, just like a CETME or HK91.

Image
How do you like the FR-8, how long have you had it, and do you recall what you paid for it (ish?)? I'm likely to be in the market for one soon
Batman has a pretty good EDC. - Purple_Mutant

User avatar
Dave_M
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 15976
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:30 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:36 am

chills1994 wrote:
Dave_M wrote:Image
Dave, nice pic, as always!

But I have to ask, the gun almost appears to be levitating above the target.

Is that just some artifact of digital photography?

Or is that some tweaks in photoshop?
Mainly it's due to the amount of light I was flooding it with. Reflected off of the USPSA paper, lightening the background and decreasing any shadow
Image
Dave Merrill
Instructor for MilCopp Tactical LLC.

Rifle first. Rifle last. Rifle always.
Civilian Scout wrote:No one buys a Taurus because it's the best option available.

User avatar
12_Gauge_Chimp
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 6771
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:21 pm
Location: Middle of nowhere, West Texas
Contact:

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:28 pm

Well, I just placed an order with my local hardware store for a stainless Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel.

Let's see how long it takes for them to get it to me.


Chills, I probably won't be doing any hunting with my gun, but I may look up whether or not I can hunt with a handgun in my state. It'd be nice to have that option should I ever decide to become a hunter.

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by crypto » Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:50 pm

00dlez wrote:
crypto wrote:So this is my new hunting rifle.

In case anyone else is ever in this boat, the FR-8 birdcage uses a M15x1 RH thread, just like a CETME or HK91.

Image
How do you like the FR-8, how long have you had it, and do you recall what you paid for it (ish?)? I'm likely to be in the market for one soon

1. It's the coolest milssurp boltaction ever, I love it. It's about 3-4MOA accurate.
2. about 3-4 months
3. $400


I plan to put a Timney K98 trigger in it, because the stock trigger is pretty awful, common for military guns of the time.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
Dave_M
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 15976
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:30 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:25 pm

Alright, starting in March I can legally hunt with a suppressor equipped gun.

Well, I don't hunt--but if I did I could do it suppressed. Also a, 'shall sign' for CLEO's and NFA forms was passed and mags above 30 rounds will be legal in non-NFA weapons (previously the law did not apply to NFA weapons)
Image
Dave Merrill
Instructor for MilCopp Tactical LLC.

Rifle first. Rifle last. Rifle always.
Civilian Scout wrote:No one buys a Taurus because it's the best option available.

kbilly84
* * * * *
Posts: 1352
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:24 am

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by kbilly84 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:09 pm

Alright gang. I got me an Amazon.com card for Christmas. I'm thinking splurge a bit and get some shooting stuff. Eye and Ear pro jump to the top of the list. I've got both, but really only in the sense that I have them, and they're earplugs and glasses. I'd really like a pair of ear pro. I feel like Comtacs are the gold standard, but the price is rather steep for me.

So, what do you guys suggest? My card is $50. I'll have a little extra to spend, if need be. Is there any earpro in that vicinity that's decent, or would it be better to save my pennies for the good stuff?

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Halfapint » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:32 pm

One more quick question (hope I don't detract from the above poster who has a good question).

My AR goes though buffer tube dent springs like the cookie monster goes through cookies. I'm not sure what's going on, but I took it out shooting and it went though 2 springs. After I got home I started working the action and it ate another one. So, I cut the spring so it's not nearly as stiff and springy, and it now cycles just fine.

Anyone else have any problems like this??? Is there another spring that I might order that isn't cut that might not have the tension as the ones I've been buying? I don't really know which ones I've been getting I just ask the guys at the LGS if they had any and they had a pack of 3. So I got that.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
AS556
* * * * *
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead ('04),28 Days Later,Shaun of the Dead,Zombieland
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by AS556 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:45 pm

By going through springs do you mean the spring is popping out of its channel and disappearing? Or is it being mangled and stuck in the action? Is it the buffer retaining pin and spring? If so it will be the pin directly in front of and below the actual buffer. The only detent spring I know of near the buffer tube is the rear takedown pin detent which is held in place by the endplate. The only way for your buffer retaining pin/spring to pop out is if your buffr tube itself is backing out of the threads and thereby releasing the pin. Can you post a pic or two?

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Halfapint » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:06 pm

AS556 wrote:By going through springs do you mean the spring is popping out of its channel and disappearing? Or is it being mangled and stuck in the action? Is it the buffer retaining pin and spring? If so it will be the pin directly in front of and below the actual buffer. The only detent spring I know of near the buffer tube is the rear takedown pin detent which is held in place by the endplate. The only way for your buffer retaining pin/spring to pop out is if your buffr tube itself is backing out of the threads and thereby releasing the pin. Can you post a pic or two?
Sorry it isn't the dent pin, thought that's what it was called haha. But yes is the buffer retaining pin (spring) in the lower part of the buffer tube. And by eating yes it's getting mangled and and causing the carrier group to get stuck. I'll try to post pics when I get home, I'm all out if new springs for it and so far the chopped pin is working great. I haven't been able to fire it but I manually cycled 60 rounds though it and had no problems.

Edit: so what's happening, is the spring is coming out and catching, causing the carrier group to get stuck. I then have to push the take down pins out, and use a screw driver or something to push the retaining pin down to allow the carrier group to move forward.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:28 pm

There should be a pin that sits on top of that spring.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/re ... 17559.aspx
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Halfapint » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:58 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:There should be a pin that sits on top of that spring.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/re ... 17559.aspx
The pin is on top of the spring. The pin some how catches the bolt carrier and moves forward with the bold carrier moving it up and jamming it. Which then stretches the spring out making it useless. The spring I currently have in there is one of the stretched out ones that I impressed and twisted so it still springy but doesn't have the force spring force it did. It seems to work now. But as I said I haven't fired it, but even cycling the old spring would make it so this. I brought it to a gunsmith to make sure it wasn't user error and he didn't see anything wrong.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
AS556
* * * * *
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead ('04),28 Days Later,Shaun of the Dead,Zombieland
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by AS556 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:05 pm

When you look at the retainer pin does the buffer tube itself rest on top of the pin? The buffer tube should be physically blocking the pin from coming out. Without seeing a couple pics of the pin channel its hard to say. Based on what youve said it sounds like your buffer tube isnt screwed in all the way. The tube should be forward far enough that it is resting against the side of the nub on the pin.

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Halfapint » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:25 pm

AS556 wrote:When you look at the retainer pin does the buffer tube itself rest on top of the pin? The buffer tube should be physically blocking the pin from coming out. Without seeing a couple pics of the pin channel its hard to say. Based on what youve said it sounds like your buffer tube isnt screwed in all the way. The tube should be forward far enough that it is resting against the side of the nub on the pin.
Ha, I thought so. Lol I asked the gun smith about that before he torqued the buffer tube bolt and he said "it doesn't matter" well I found a gunsmith I won't be going back to. I'll just go get myself the special wrench and fix it. Thanks for the help.

Edit: this gun smith is VERY well respected about 15 people recommended him.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by crypto » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:42 pm

Oh yeah dude, thats for sure your problem. The tube should be screwed in over the side of the detent pin, so that only the raised section of the pin on the top is sticking out.

Image
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
AS556
* * * * *
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead ('04),28 Days Later,Shaun of the Dead,Zombieland
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by AS556 » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:54 pm

Halfapint wrote:
AS556 wrote:When you look at the retainer pin does the buffer tube itself rest on top of the pin? The buffer tube should be physically blocking the pin from coming out. Without seeing a couple pics of the pin channel its hard to say. Based on what youve said it sounds like your buffer tube isnt screwed in all the way. The tube should be forward far enough that it is resting against the side of the nub on the pin.


Ha, I thought so. Lol I asked the gun smith about that before he torqued the buffer tube bolt and he said "it doesn't matter" well I found a gunsmith I won't be going back to. I'll just go get myself the special wrench and fix it. Thanks for the help.

Edit: this gun smith is VERY well respected about 15 people recommended him.
No problem, happy to help. I've had bad luck with a couple gunsmiths..arrogant and think their work and time is worth a lot more than it really is. This obviously doesnt apply to true custom work but for little shit like this I wouldnt even charge, myself. But when a 24 y/o on an internet forum can figure something out with a couple paragraphs that he couldnt figure out in person thats not a good sign.

BTW, if youre local I have all the tools you need and a buffer retainer spring and pin you can have. PM if so.

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Halfapint » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:56 pm

I'm genuinely laughing out loud because it seemed intuitive that the buffer tube to keep the pin down and only allow it to raise enough to keep the buffer spring from coming out. Sigh.... At least I know I'm not a complete idiot. I'll go back and talk to the gun smith, he's a nice guy maybe just wa having an off day or something. Lol. I was getting so damn frustrated.

Edit: damnyouautocorrect
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
0122358
* * * * *
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:07 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead (2004)
Zombieland
Location: Purdy...Washington

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 0122358 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:16 pm

Note to self: Loctite screws on small easy to lose pieces on your weapon.

My buddy was blasting away yesterday with my BCM and my troy flip BUIS...popped off into a muddy straw covered pile of rocks. We found the base, it took four guys on their hands and knees 10 minutes to find the screw and it took my a half hour of my buddies telling me "to forget it and give up we wont find it" to find that tiny ass rail clamp buried under a log. Oh...it was 20 degrees in the wind. Yeah I'm not leaving a 120 dollar rear sight in pieces.

My flash light also came loose but luckily didn't lose any of the washers.
SMoAF wrote:Your sin is one of geography, not one of unmanliness. Pimp's sin is that he's, well....himself.
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: I'd rather have 10 spooky-sized aircraft in an AO than 100 drones, because fuck those fucking pred flyboys who can't tell the difference between a shovel and an RPK.

User avatar
AS556
* * * * *
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead ('04),28 Days Later,Shaun of the Dead,Zombieland
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by AS556 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:24 pm

Had to learn the hard way, huh? Me too. :awesome:
Had a red dot fall off its mount and never made that mistake again. Just be sure to use the blue kind and only use a dab of it..it can be a real bitch to get off when you coat the threads entirely.

Oh, when I told you the Sprinco would shortstroke your middy I think I was wrong, my BAD lever was causing it.

Also I just grabbed a 14.5 BCM middy upper with a pinned A2X, free Bravo carrier and a Mod4 CH :D

User avatar
TheLastOne
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3210
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:06 pm
Location: CO

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by TheLastOne » Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:04 am

If you're totally mental like me you will also put a little dot of paint on the bolts so you can check at a glance for any loosening...
MF'N Team Leader: Cleveland Steamers 2012
Team Beards&Irons 2013
Image

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Langenator » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:15 pm

Posted this over in the AR build thread but didn't get any response...Had an interesting experience last night...putting together a new lower for 3-gun (purpose built 3-gun upper coming as I can afford the parts). Aero lower, ACE stock, POF trigger pack and JP parts kit. Should have been no big deal to assemble, except the POF trigger pack wouldn't fit in the Aero lower. No matter how much I tried, I couldn't get the trigger pin hole to line up - it was off in the horizontal axis just enough that the pin wouldn't go in. Since I had another Aero lower, I tried that one as well - same problem.

So I pulled the trigger parts out of my 10-year old Stag lower (bought in 2004, right after the AWB expired, well before Stag was such a big name), since it already had an A2 stock and buffer tube that would fit with the ACE stock. The POF trigger dropped right in, no issues. And the old DoubleStar trigger group went into the Aero lower with no issues.

I've never read about anyone having any issues with Aero lowers. Am I the only one?

Also, for the upper, I've narrowed the handguard down to the Odin or the Seekins SP3R. Anybody have any experience with either?
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

eeb
* * * *
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by eeb » Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:25 pm

I'm thinking tolerance stacking. Lowers on one side of spec, and trigger on the other, with the Stag parts closer to nominal. But that's just my guess.
"Illegal spying is not a crime. Well, it is, but fuck it."-NSA

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 628
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Langenator » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:39 am

eeb wrote:I'm thinking tolerance stacking. Lowers on one side of spec, and trigger on the other, with the Stag parts closer to nominal. But that's just my guess.
That was my guess as well. I've got ARs with a Mega and a Del-Ton receiver as well I could try dropping the POF trigger into just to see how it fit, but I don't feel like pulling stuff apart just as an experiment.
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

Locked

Return to “General Firearms Discussion”