Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by AS556 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:34 pm

Im going to try a half case of wolf shortly. Thats a good point about the proprietary barrels. If I get a Tavor looks like I'll stick with brass.

Monkey, that's a good feeling to get your weapon functioning properly. I'm convinced the XP Sprinco buffer spring is what finally fixed my failure to go into battery issues with steel. Plus its good for hundreds of thousands of cycles as opposed to a standard springs life of 5-10k.

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:24 pm

AS556 wrote:Im going to try a half case of wolf shortly. Thats a good point about the proprietary barrels. If I get a Tavor looks like I'll stick with brass.

Monkey, that's a good feeling to get your weapon functioning properly. I'm convinced the XP Sprinco buffer spring is what finally fixed my failure to go into battery issues with steel. Plus its good for hundreds of thousands of cycles as opposed to a standard springs life of 5-10k.
Then there's the fact it's notoriously underpowdered. In and of itself this isn't a problem. The issues begin when you start using full power ammo without modification in a system that's already optimized for Wolf. Understand that I am a little crazy about gas tuning, as I have spent a lot of time and money breaking and replacing parts from using overgassed (AKA 'Porno Port') rifles. Some are better than others. With my LMT, for example, if I want to use Wolf ammo I have to swap out my H buffer for a Car buffer.

While no doubt I could setup my SCAR to eat it reliably, without a 3-position regulator it means either having the rifle be overgassed on brass, overgassed suppressed, or more extensive parts swapping than with an AR. Due to how the gas is managed I think an aftermarket regulator could be made without replacing or modifying the entire gas block. I don't have a CNC machine though and spare adjustment switches are currently hard to come by.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by BullOnParade » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:48 pm

Thinking about buying a shotgun for bird purposes.
My HD shotgun was built off an 870 wingmaster, so another 870 just seems logical. I know the Wingmaster is the top of Remington's pump line, will parts be interchangeable if I pick up an express or super mag? The action is still the same, right, I'd only be missing out on the quality of finish?
Should I just shop around for a new (to me) Wingmaster? I just saw one at a gun show last weekend for $350.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by crypto » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:03 pm

Hit the range early this morning, felt like a window-licker when I realized I forgot all my rifle mags at home.

I did a couple come-up drills with the Tavor loading single rounds, but felt like a chump.

Went through 20 mags worth of pistol ammo to make up for it.

come-ups, 1-r-1 drills, bill drills, 1-4 drills, and el presidentes.

I bought a bunch of these reduced-size IDPA targets that are straight up ridiculous for pistol use. They're 1/2 size in each dimension, so 1/4-scale overall. The A-zone is about 3" wide by 6" tall.

So, I was pretty happy when I shot a clean el prez drill from concealment in 8.1 That shit was hard with the wee targets.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by UndeadInfidel » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:11 pm

Been there, done that. Nothing worse than forgetting your mags. haha

I usually forget at least one thing when I go the range, whether it be tape, a stapler, a sharpie, or my mags.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Browning 35 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:25 pm

BullOnParade wrote:Thinking about buying a shotgun for bird purposes.
My HD shotgun was built off an 870 wingmaster, so another 870 just seems logical. I know the Wingmaster is the top of Remington's pump line, will parts be interchangeable if I pick up an express or super mag? The action is still the same, right, I'd only be missing out on the quality of finish?
Should I just shop around for a new (to me) Wingmaster? I just saw one at a gun show last weekend for $350.
The Wingmaster has a better finish, better wood, has a metal trigger housing, has an ivory front sight instead of a white blob, there's more care in it's assembly and from what I understand doesn't use MIM parts the way the Express does. I'm not a gunsmith, so I don't know about that last item (MIM parts, lots of companies use them anyway). That's just what I've heard.

From the shooters perspective the Wingmaster looks better and the action feels a whole lot smoother while still feeling solid.

If you can find a Wingmaster for slightly more I'd buy that over an Express. They are seriously nicer to shoot.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Redeyes » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:34 pm

UndeadInfidel wrote:Been there, done that. Nothing worse than forgetting your mags. haha

I usually forget at least one thing when I go the range, whether it be tape, a stapler, a sharpie, or my mags.
Yeah, I know people look at me wierd when I have two tables full of stuff at the range and still have to go back to my car to get something. Last couple of times I went I forgot my brown tape. Had to use duct tape. Brown USPSA targets and duct tape all over the A zones and a little in the C. :lol:

They do love the fact that SOMEBODY brought a effin stapler though. 8-)
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:07 am

Browning 35 wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:Thinking about buying a shotgun for bird purposes.
My HD shotgun was built off an 870 wingmaster, so another 870 just seems logical. I know the Wingmaster is the top of Remington's pump line, will parts be interchangeable if I pick up an express or super mag? The action is still the same, right, I'd only be missing out on the quality of finish?
Should I just shop around for a new (to me) Wingmaster? I just saw one at a gun show last weekend for $350.
The Wingmaster has a better finish, better wood, has a metal trigger housing, has an ivory front sight instead of a white blob, there's more care in it's assembly and from what I understand doesn't use MIM parts the way the Express does. I'm not a gunsmith, so I don't know about that last item (MIM parts, lots of companies use them anyway). That's just what I've heard.

From the shooters perspective the Wingmaster looks better and the action feels a whole lot smoother while still feeling solid.

If you can find a Wingmaster for slightly more I'd buy that over an Express. They are seriously nicer to shoot.
In and of itself, there's nothing inherently wrong with MIM parts. It's technology that is in common use for a lot of industrial applications. Just like with any manufacturing process, it largely depends on how good the engineers and machine operators are. There were a lot of poorly made MIM 1911 parts out there several years ago which has given them a bad name overall in the firearms industry.

All of this is to say that just because a gun contains some MIM parts does not automatically make it a deal breaker IMO.

Regarding the Wingmasters, be advised that depending on the receiver age it may not be able to accept 3" shells regardless of barrel used due to the ejector location. If it has an, 'M' at the end of the serial number 3" shells should be good to go.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Browning 35 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:13 am

The thing about MIM parts as I understand it is that some companies seem to have the process down cold and produce good parts and a few don't. If they're done right they're fine and I don't really care. Plenty of MIM parts are in current production pistols. For some it's a deal breaker though and so I thought I'd mention it.

The Wingmaster is as smooth as any shotgun has the right to be.

Interesting info on the 3' shell. I'm not much of a turkey hunter and use shotguns pretty much strictly for clays and doves. 2 and 3/4's serves my needs. I have a few boxes of 3' that I bought a few years ago and it just sits. Since Bull is up in Canada I don't know if he'd want to hunt waterfowl or not.
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Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:57 am

Waterfowl are what my friends primarily go for and where I'll be starting.

If I think I might ever go for turkey, I'll want 3.5", right? Is that only available in the super mag? I'm not really interested in picking up multiple shotguns, I already have more than enough to suit my current needs.

What's everyone's opinion on buying a complete action, no wood, no barrel? There's a very clean looking wingmaster action at a nearby store for $300, and I still have a Sureshot stock and 30" barrel from my tactical wingmaster. Worth saving the $50?
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Browning 35 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:18 am

BullOnParade wrote:Waterfowl are what my friends primarily go for and where I'll be starting.

If I think I might ever go for turkey, I'll want 3.5", right? Is that only available in the super mag? I'm not really interested in picking up multiple shotguns, I already have more than enough to suit my current needs.
Among shotgunners that's like the AR/AK, 9mm vs .45 or Glock vs 1911 debate. Some don't feel that it makes much of a difference except to the wallet as what matters is patterning your shotgun and others swear by 3.5'.

Everyone I know uses 3' for turkey down here. Some of the guys going out for ducks or geese use the. 3.5, especially if they're going out of state.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by BullOnParade » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:08 am

Browning 35 wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:Waterfowl are what my friends primarily go for and where I'll be starting.

If I think I might ever go for turkey, I'll want 3.5", right? Is that only available in the super mag? I'm not really interested in picking up multiple shotguns, I already have more than enough to suit my current needs.
Among shotgunners that's like the AR/AK, 9mm vs .45 or Glock vs 1911 debate. Some don't feel that it makes much of a difference except to the wallet as what matters is patterning your shotgun and others swear by 3.5'.

Everyone I know uses 3' for turkey down here. Some of the guys going out for ducks or geese use the. 3.5, especially if they're going out of state.
It's not like 3.5 is going to be too much for duck though. Am I correct about the super mag? The wingmaster action won't run 3.5", even with an appropriate barrel? IIRC (I don't have the barrel in front of me right now), the bird barrel I have is only 2.75" anyways.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by TheLastOne » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:25 am

I know I regurgitate a lot of firearmsblog stories






SO HERE"S ANOTHER ONE! :clownshoes:

For you r51 people: Remington thinks the problems arose from the prototype going to mass production/shit happens. They are confident new manufacturing solutions will fix the old problems. Ppl that bought one will receive a replacement with extra mags. That's about as good a solution that I can think of.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Browning 35 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:34 am

BullOnParade wrote:It's not like 3.5 is going to be too much for duck though. Am I correct about the super mag? The wingmaster action won't run 3.5", even with an appropriate barrel? IIRC (I don't have the barrel in front of me right now), the bird barrel I have is only 2.75" anyways.
I've own/have owned both the Wingmasters and Express models, but not in 3.5'.

Had to look it up.

Remington 870 Wingmaster 12Ga, 3.5 Inch, 28 Inch, LC GS

Appears Rem makes a Wingmaster in. 3.5'.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Bearcat » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:56 am

AS556 wrote:Im going to try a half case of wolf shortly. Thats a good point about the proprietary barrels. If I get a Tavor looks like I'll stick with brass.
They make a 5.45 conversion kit :awesome:

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by AS556 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:34 pm

Dave, what you said leads me to believe my PSA is overgassed due to the fact it runs all .223 just fine with an H buffer, Tula/Barnaul included. Might bump it up to n H2 but then again since resolving my issues I've been shooting steel almost exlusively. I just can't afford to shoot brass in the volume I would like. I'm still learning about gas port size and buffer weights so maybe down the road I'll switch it up.

Bearcat, that 5.45 conversion is tempting. Too bad about 7n6.

Lastly, this should go in the terminal ballistics chat but I'm already posting here.

Shot the Federal 115gr +p+ (9bple) through 4 ply denim into water jugs yesterday. Shredded the jacket but the lead core expanded to around .60 and made it to the third jug. Interesting that despite being a very old load the velocity caused the bullet to overcome the denim and expand.

Did the same test with a 124gr Hydra Shok std pressure. At least that's what I think it was (RE: gr weight) because I literally found it on the ground at an outdoor range last month. Similar expansion and penetration but no jacket separation.

Also was ringing 4" plates offhand with my carbine and RDS with ease at 100m. Not impressive by some standards but I've never shot steel so that was fun.

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:32 pm

Nearly all commercial ARs are overgassed. I can count on one hand the manufacturers that don't
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 0122358 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:09 pm

So an update to my holster question and answer session...

I went with a Crossbreed.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Shiloh » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:17 pm

0122358 wrote:So an update to my holster question and answer session...

I went with a Crossbreed.
How are you liking it so far? I've heard good things about Crossbreed.

Also, damnit. The minute I think I've decided on my carry gun another one pops up. Specifically, I just saw the M&P45c.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 0122358 » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:30 pm

Shiloh wrote:
0122358 wrote:So an update to my holster question and answer session...

I went with a Crossbreed.
How are you liking it so far? I've heard good things about Crossbreed.

Also, damnit. The minute I think I've decided on my carry gun another one pops up. Specifically, I just saw the M&P45c.
Oh I just ordered it about an hour ago...so ill let you know in a month when it gets here :lol:
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Shiloh » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:15 pm

0122358 wrote:
Shiloh wrote:
0122358 wrote:So an update to my holster question and answer session...

I went with a Crossbreed.
How are you liking it so far? I've heard good things about Crossbreed.

Also, damnit. The minute I think I've decided on my carry gun another one pops up. Specifically, I just saw the M&P45c.
Oh I just ordered it about an hour ago...so ill let you know in a month when it gets here :lol:
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Kommander » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:36 pm

How does one tell if their rifles is overgassed? I have a middy with a carbine buffer (it came with my VLTOR stock kit) and a DD barrel. It runs everything I have fed it so far just fine. Should I look into an H buffer or is that really not necessary?
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:50 pm

Kommander wrote:How does one tell if their rifles is overgassed? I have a middy with a carbine buffer (it came with my VLTOR stock kit) and a DD barrel. It runs everything I have fed it so far just fine. Should I look into an H buffer or is that really not necessary?
There's a school of thought revolving around an ejection chart which I completely disregard. Speaking in general terms you want the heaviest configuration that still runs reliably to increase smoothness and longevity.

So, if it runs brass with an H buffer I'd use an H buffer. You could also buy an H3 and simply exchange some weights (standard Car buffer has 3 steel weights, H has 1 tungsten and 2 steel, H2 has 2 tungsten and 1 steel etc). That wsy you can make the entire line if you want. Only issue becomes clearly marking what buffer is what if you don't have a druggie kitchen scale handy ;)
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by BullOnParade » Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:46 am

Browning 35 wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:It's not like 3.5 is going to be too much for duck though. Am I correct about the super mag? The wingmaster action won't run 3.5", even with an appropriate barrel? IIRC (I don't have the barrel in front of me right now), the bird barrel I have is only 2.75" anyways.
I've own/have owned both the Wingmasters and Express models, but not in 3.5'.

Had to look it up.

Remington 870 Wingmaster 12Ga, 3.5 Inch, 28 Inch, LC GS

Appears Rem makes a Wingmaster in. 3.5'.
So I've reached my decision; I'll run the 1300 that I never use for this season of waterfowl. If I decide I like the sport, or decide I want to move to geese or turkey, I'll look for a new wingmaster in 3.5"
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