Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu May 22, 2014 5:21 pm

Dogan wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:RE: PTAC. 4-6MOA? The beater DPMS I picked up does better than that. if you have to cheap out and buy a sub-par product to afford the build, then you can't afford the build. Save some pennies, buy something you can scream and return if it doesn't meet milspec accuracy and with a decent twist rate. Alternatively, go down to the local cheap joint, buy an MP15 Sport off the rack, shoot 2MOA groups with wolf ammo, and buy a new upper down the line. I don't think I've ever seen an AR that couldn't hold 6MOA or better unless it was a Bushmaster with a loose barrel nut. Kinda makes you wonder if they won't guarantee 6MOA or better. if I wanted a bullet hose that couldn't hit a 10" plate at 300m, I'd have bought a Century AK.
Which I do not want. Thanks to another thread I'm looking more closely at the PSA CMV.

I don't think I could handle a 6 MOA ar. My OCD would make me get up at 2 am and start taking apart the rifle and putting in such awful things as Accuwedges. I mostly got excited about the price, posted, then ordered the lowers, looked at the upper and went "Dammit. It's a PTAC."

Also, PSA usually has a big July 4th sale right?
Almost everyone does, yeah. I would like to apologize, my last post was a bit rash. Even a Century AK will do better than 6MOA.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Thu May 22, 2014 7:10 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:8" CMMG. Get the lightweight, I have one and my SBR is 6 lbs with optic.

I'm very pleased with this barrel, toughest part is that it's always backordered.
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:10" will keep you from getting any flash from the supers, and gives you an extra 125FPS out the gate over the 8" barrel. Standard profile will give you plenty of rigidity to keep from seeing much POI shift if (when) you throw a can on, and if you aren't using a massive can like some of us idjits (9" of SS? AWESOME!) then the OAL will still be about the same as a carbine. mine's about 17" with the 30cal SS can, just under 16" if I ever get a mount for my 9mm or .45 can.
See, this is exactly the dilemma I've been trying to work my monkey brain through.

8"
PRO:
*lighter
*shorter with can
*CMMG is probably better
CON:
*more flash (powder is supposed to burn completely within what, 9 inches of barrel?)
*less real estate
*lower velocity (not a huge difference, but potentially a factor?)
*I've heard that shorter barrels may have issues running subs unsuppressed?

10.5"
PRO:
*less flash
*better velocity
*better function with subs?
*can use a longer handguard
CON:
*longer and probably heavier
*slightly more expensive (negligible)
*more velocity (possibly an issue with subs?)
*not as familiar with the brand (quality?)

What am I missing/where am I wrong?
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu May 22, 2014 7:28 pm

I own a 7.5" 300. Nope, no flash. Loss of velocity, meh. 300 is not and will never be a long range cartridge. This one will not run subs reliably without a can but my 8" CMMG will but really I don't run subs without a can. I really dont see the point in it. Really, it's the point of short barreled 300 is to run slow and quiet, at least that's why I have them.
I also have an 8.5, a 9, 10.5 and a 16.5". Between them all I like the 8" the most. It's the lightest, it's accurate and runs 100%. It's a FN produced barrel.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Thu May 22, 2014 7:45 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:This one will not run subs reliably without a can but my 8" CMMG will but really I don't run subs without a can. I really dont see the point in it.
There may not be much point, but right now, the can is in the "if/when" category, so being able to try out different rounds and see what does what might be fun in the meantime. *shrug*

Also, regarding subs (at least mostly, I assume), is there a significant benefit in going with a 1/7 twist over 1/8? I understand, conceptually, that the tighter twist can stabilize longer, heavier rounds, but how much difference does it really make? It seems like a "nice, but not a deal-breaker" sort of thing.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu May 22, 2014 7:53 pm

I have both twists and I'm not seeing any difference. All the barrels will shoot small groups with 110, 125, 150, 200 and 220. So far the best overall has been the 125 nosler ballistic tip. Really the best thing to do is play around with the loads and tailor them to the rifle.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Fri May 23, 2014 12:56 pm

That sounds pretty good.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm asking you to do my homework, but I'm curious, if you were to put a non-suppressor mounting muzzle device on an 8" barrel, what would you go for?

I'm only asking about this because it may be a while before I get a can; the natural instinct is to go AAC, and just get one of their suppressor mount capable flash hiders, but a lot can happen between now and then, and there could be a better way to go, so I don't want to pigeonhole myself by committing to a specific mount/brand, only to change my mind later. I'm tempted to go with the flaming pig, but that may not be the most practical. :crazy: I've only ever used the A2 birdcage flash hider on an AR, so really, all I know about anything else pretty much comes from the internet, so I might as well get it from a good source on here. :P
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri May 23, 2014 1:03 pm

Anybody got a recommendation for getting a really tight flash hider off an AK ?

Case in point, the Razr flash hider/muzzle brake/pokey thing on my AK is a wee bit crooked and I want to remove it so I can straighten it out and possibly put a different brake on at some point. Unfortunately, whatever worker at FA Cugir in Romania tightened the everloving hell out of it and with my lack of tools, it's a pain to remove.

I'm not against buying tools, but if there's a way I can get the thing off my gun or at least straightened out without tools, I'm all for it.

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Gingerbread Man » Fri May 23, 2014 1:04 pm

For the 300 I use the Vltor A2 and the AAC 3 prong. If I have to recommend, I'd say Vltor, it works well, tough, afforable and is small. I'm not a fan of the pig because it's almost 3" long and is a loudening device. I'm fragile, so I like quiet. :ohdear:

My cans are thread on, I don't have QD or flashhider mounted. 19mm wrench FTW.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Dave_M » Fri May 23, 2014 1:29 pm

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:Anybody got a recommendation for getting a really tight flash hider off an AK ?

Case in point, the Razr flash hider/muzzle brake/pokey thing on my AK is a wee bit crooked and I want to remove it so I can straighten it out and possibly put a different brake on at some point. Unfortunately, whatever worker at FA Cugir in Romania tightened the everloving hell out of it and with my lack of tools, it's a pain to remove.

I'm not against buying tools, but if there's a way I can get the thing off my gun or at least straightened out without tools, I'm all for it.
Remember that 7.62x39 AKs are left-hand threaded (usually). Are you certain it's not welded?
Do you mean crooked as in angled or crooked as in indexed incorrectly?
If it's crooked/angled it means one of three things:
-threads cut crooked on barrel
-threads cut crooked on muzzle device
-muzzle device cross threaded and forced on anyway

#1 is worst case /w #3 not far behind.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri May 23, 2014 1:41 pm

Dave_M wrote:
12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:Anybody got a recommendation for getting a really tight flash hider off an AK ?

Case in point, the Razr flash hider/muzzle brake/pokey thing on my AK is a wee bit crooked and I want to remove it so I can straighten it out and possibly put a different brake on at some point. Unfortunately, whatever worker at FA Cugir in Romania tightened the everloving hell out of it and with my lack of tools, it's a pain to remove.

I'm not against buying tools, but if there's a way I can get the thing off my gun or at least straightened out without tools, I'm all for it.
Remember that 7.62x39 AKs are left-hand threaded (usually). Are you certain it's not welded?
Do you mean crooked as in angled or crooked as in indexed incorrectly?
If it's crooked/angled it means one of three things:
-threads cut crooked on barrel
-threads cut crooked on muzzle device
-muzzle device cross threaded and forced on anyway

#1 is worst case /w #3 not far behind.
Nope, not welded. I made sure of that by calling M+M awhile back and they said the muzzle brake is just threaded on and not welded. The only time they weld it on is if the gun is to be sent to a state where it's required.

I just looked at the gun and from the front (I safety checked the gun before doing so, by the way.) it looks as if they overtightened it slightly and it's just off by a very small degree.

Instead of being straight up, it's cocked to the left a couple degrees off center. Not really enough to be a big deal, just more a matter of personal preference.

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Browning 35 » Fri May 23, 2014 2:17 pm

Heat it up with a propane torch and then use huevos.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri May 23, 2014 2:30 pm

Browning 35 wrote:Heat it up with a propane torch and then use huevos.
I don't have a torch, but I suppose a trip to the local hardware store might solve that.

Probably wouldn't hurt to pick up a better set of pliers either.

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Maverick299 » Fri May 23, 2014 3:07 pm

Perplexing question of the day. My AR build has fired 2100 flawless rounds, mostly with cheap Russian steel case ammo. My gun builder was bragging up what a good job he did assembling the upper so I saw that as "challenge accepted". The first 2100 rounds were fired without every wiping down the bolt or adding so much as a single drop of oil just to try and spite him and force a malfunction :crazy: . Last weekend I was taking a carbine class so I decided to clean the bolt, wipe down the excess powder in the receiver and chamber, and oil it up.

I immediately started having problems when the class started. Double feeds mainly, the bolt release was sticking in and causing the first round of the magazine to pop partially out so when the bolt was coming forward I was getting double feeds (first round only problems, once the gun was up and running it was fine). Limped it through class and took it to him to see what the problem was. Turns out the opening in the lower where the bolt catch rides was out of spec too small by 0.003". My initial thought was that a tiny piece of the steel case ammo had come off the case and lodged itself in there but the problem was anodized over meaning it came from the factory like that.

The million dollar question is this. What makes an out of spec lower run flawless for 2100 rounds and then manifest a problem that has been there since day one on round 2101? :?
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri May 23, 2014 3:15 pm

All I can think of is maybe the anodizing wore off enough for the problem to appear and stop the gun from functioning properly, Maverick299.

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by TheLastOne » Fri May 23, 2014 3:52 pm

Maverick299 wrote:Perplexing question of the day. My AR build has fired 2100 flawless rounds, mostly with cheap Russian steel case ammo. My gun builder was bragging up what a good job he did assembling the upper so I saw that as "challenge accepted". The first 2100 rounds were fired without every wiping down the bolt or adding so much as a single drop of oil just to try and spite him and force a malfunction :crazy: . Last weekend I was taking a carbine class so I decided to clean the bolt, wipe down the excess powder in the receiver and chamber, and oil it up.

I immediately started having problems when the class started. Double feeds mainly, the bolt release was sticking in and causing the first round of the magazine to pop partially out so when the bolt was coming forward I was getting double feeds (first round only problems, once the gun was up and running it was fine). Limped it through class and took it to him to see what the problem was. Turns out the opening in the lower where the bolt catch rides was out of spec too small by 0.003". My initial thought was that a tiny piece of the steel case ammo had come off the case and lodged itself in there but the problem was anodized over meaning it came from the factory like that.

The million dollar question is this. What makes an out of spec lower run flawless for 2100 rounds and then manifest a problem that has been there since day one on round 2101? :?
Using the same ammo?
I was thinking shitty mags until you start talking about he bolt catch... not sure that's even a problem being out of spec. Is the spring fucked?
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri May 23, 2014 3:53 pm

Maverick299 wrote:The million dollar question is this. What makes an out of spec lower run flawless for 2100 rounds and then manifest a problem that has been there since day one on round 2101? :?
What make is the lower?
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by feedthedog » Fri May 23, 2014 4:06 pm

Does anyone have any idea what is going on with the arsenal pistol?

Are we going to get one this year, or are they kel-tecing us?

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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Maverick299 » Fri May 23, 2014 5:43 pm

Using the same ammo?
I was thinking shitty mags until you start talking about he bolt catch... not sure that's even a problem being out of spec. Is the spring fucked?
Not the same ammo but similar. I switched from Brown Bear to Silver Bear for the class because I had a case of it sitting around and was getting low on Brown Bear.

Not the mags, I pre-loaded 12 mags and used them all. They all malfunctioned.

Wasn't the spring. Imagine when you slam a mag into a open bolt and than hit the bolt catch with the heel of your hand or thumb to drop the bolt. The bolt catch should return outwards after the bolt closes. Mine was sticking "in". At first I could use my thumb and finger to pry it back out, by the end of the day I was having to use my knife to pry it back to the "out" normal position. Somehow with it sticking inwards it was popping the top bullet loose out of the mag when a mag was inserted. I'm guessing because of the mechanics involved with that particular lower having a ambi-mag release.

*edit* The way I just described that sounds exactly like the return spring, but when I pulled it out the spring was fine. The width of the bolt catch was fine. The width of the opening was too tight. Just baffling that it didn't bind up like that from the get go.

What make is the lower?
Seekins Billet lower. Those come from the factory with the bolt release installed because they have the ambi-release.

The good part about dropping $250 on a stripped lower (that you would expect to be in spec) is that everything is being fixed for free. Just weird that the problem would surface this far into the game.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by mk_ultra » Fri May 23, 2014 6:25 pm

i am currently in the market for a CCW gunbelt for work . I am looking for something in black leather and 1.5 in width .

Looking at the Liger belt by Maxpedition at the moment .

http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/LIG ... 60p257.htm

Any experience or other suggestions , would not mind spending less money on something else .

Thanks .
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by TheLastOne » Fri May 23, 2014 8:37 pm

I'm on my second beltman belt MK. I used and bused the crap out of the first one for quite a few years and was pleased. Got the new one about 2 years back. Give em a look. FWIW the first one i did bull hide without the stiffener, this one with. Im not noticing a huge difference.


Weird mav. Like you said, you'd think it would have been jacked from the git go. My seekins required me being creative with a dremel to make mags drop free.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Maverick299 » Sat May 24, 2014 12:23 am

Made for some interesting mag changes. They ran us through the **** county course to qualify to be issued a rifle. We were timed and not given much of it. Everyone else was on the 2nd mag and I had my rifle rolled over trying to push a round back into the magazine through a very warm ejection port. They count total rounds on target so I had to get it into the chamber or I would have only had 29 of 30 on target.

I didn't want to qualify with a minimum of 27 for 30. I wanted to sweep it 30-30, and I did........barely.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by chills1994 » Sat May 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Pardon my apparent lack of YouTube embedding skills, but here is me yesterday with iKam glasses video of shooting some pistol drills with steel targets



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cR87Jw ... e=youtu.be

I brain farted picking up the ammo can full of 9mm ammo on the way out the door, so I was stuck shooting the 1911 in .45ACP the whole time....but at least this time I remembered to bring a holster and mag pouches for it.

This post may go through some edits as I try to figure out the whole embed thing. It seems like every gun forum is different. Argghh...

EDIT: I'll be back....

EDIT#10: Okay, I give up. I can't figure out this embed thing.
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by Mr. E. Monkey » Sat May 24, 2014 1:01 pm

chills1994 wrote:Pardon my apparent lack of YouTube embedding skills, but here is me yesterday with iKam glasses video of shooting some pistol drills with steel targets



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cR87Jw ... e=youtu.be

I brain farted picking up the ammo can full of 9mm ammo on the way out the door, so I was stuck shooting the 1911 in .45ACP the whole time....but at least this time I remembered to bring a holster and mag pouches for it.

This post may go through some edits as I try to figure out the whole embed thing. It seems like every gun forum is different. Argghh...

EDIT: I'll be back....

EDIT#10: Okay, I give up. I can't figure out this embed thing.


There ya go. :)
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Re: Firearms Chat Part 2: Bullpups cause all the rage!

Post by chills1994 » Sat May 24, 2014 1:58 pm

Thanks!

What is the secret to getting the embedd to work here?
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