Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by cemoulton » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:27 pm

Towanda wrote:Crap. I've called several gun stores in my area and none of them have Galco Miami Classic II or Don Hume H770-AA shoulder holsters that I can try on. Anybody with a Galco ever have trouble with the plastic connector thingy in the back riding up and digging into your neck? That's one of the problems with the nylon shoulder rig I'm currently using. The Don Hume just has two horizontal straps across the back. I'm on my phone, so I don't know if these links will post properly.

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I worn (sometimes still wear but not for work) a galco Miami classic with vertical mags holsters six months a year for almost six years, six days a week, sometimes as much as 14 hours a day during the course of employment. It was/is very cumfy once I set it up properly, broke it in and got used to wearing it (takes awhile to stop chaffing on shoulders and lats)
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:42 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:I was asked for my opinion on the G26 versus the G29, subcompacts chambered in 9mm and 10mm. Physical size and weight is effectively the same, both hold ten rounds in the standard mag and Glock makes 15-round mags (NJ max capacity) that fit both as well, so no difference there.

It's really just the a ~50% increase in energy from 9mm to 10mm, versus a theoretically similar increase in recoil. If the recoil of a 10mm doesn't bother the user or hinder accuracy of followup shots, is there a reason to recommend the G26, other than ammo cost being far better for 9mm? Ammo availability isn't an issue. Overpenetration, maybe? Doesn't seem like a good argument. I think lower recoil is probably the best argument for the 9mm, as more shots on target is the real winning ticket.

Has anyone shot both? What size human are you and what did you think?
You're losing some velocity in going from the Glock 20 to the 29. Prompted by your post I was wondering how much and I stumbled across this...<THIS>.
G20 barrel @ 1325 fps, 780 ft-lbs
G29 barrel @ 1190 fps, 630 ft-lbs
Difference 135 fps, 150 ft-lbs

That's a bigger difference than I thought.
That's still pretty formidable in a compact package, but I thought you might want to know since that's the whole reason someone goes to 10mm over the 9 (more ft-lbs in a larger bullet). Even with the loss in going to a shorter barrel that's still a decent increase over the 9, but not as much as with the G-20.

I've owned the G-30 (same size, sold it) and shot the 29 and IMHO they were among the most uncomfortable of the Glocks. The grip was really blocky and it felt like holding on to the end of a short recoiling 2x4. I honestly didn't like them much. Wish there was a in-between of the 20 and the 29, but there's not.
Reduced -power 10mm is .40S&W. I'm kidding,...
You're officially kidding, but there's a bit of truth to it.
I'm sure there's ammo you're talking about that's between full-power 10mm and full-power .40, but I'm not sure it's not splitting hairs and I may as well just recommend a G27.
I'm pretty sure Hornady and Federal 10mm would be in there. Pretty narrow category.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:03 pm

If those muzzle energy figures are accurate, the 10mm has more like double the energy of a 9mm. Figure the short barrels of the subcompacts will affect both calibers similarly, it's still the same 100% increase in recoil with only 25% more mass in the G29. With the larger grip to hold a double stack of 10mm, I can see the preference for a grip extension, but I wonder if it takes away from concealability.

It's a 25% reduction in total muzzle energy in the short barrel, which means a full-power load becomes a reduced-power load. Figure a reduced-power load would probably see a reduction to around the strength of 9mm +P+, say high 400's, maybe low 500's, and with a heavier round. Still nothing to sneeze at.

The idea of one round that has the energy of two rounds of 9mm is kind of nice, though. Two rounds of 9mm to just about anywhere would certainly give me pause.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Maverick299 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:30 pm

New Griffin Armament tac comp installed tonight...............sexy! :awesome:


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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:38 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:If those muzzle energy figures are accurate, the 10mm has more like double the energy of a 9mm.
With the full house 10mm loads, yeah.

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

http://www.ballistics101.com/10mm.php

With the larger grip to hold a double stack of 10mm, I can see the preference for a grip extension, but I wonder if it takes away from concealability.
With the G30 I owned and the 29 I shot both had one of two types of grip extensions. Both from Pearce, the flat one (the PG +2) and the finger groove (that didn't add to the capacity). Never tried either the 29 or 30 without one. As far as concealability goes they weren't that bad at all. The width on the 29/30 frame is what felt quite a bit bigger, the other overall dimensions felt very similar to the G26 or G27. I don't know what the width is on the Glock 27 is vs the 29/30, but that small amount of added material does make it a bit harder to hold on to.
It's a 25% reduction in total muzzle energy in the short barrel, which means a full-power load becomes a reduced-power load. Figure a reduced-power load would probably see a reduction to around the strength of 9mm +P+, say high 400's, maybe low 500's, and with a heavier round. Still nothing to sneeze at.
Yeah, it's still pretty stout.

Even the middle of the road 10mm defensive loads will do that no problem. You're paying for that extra power in increased ammo costs and so-so availability. I love me some 10mm and it is a badass round though. I don't know why it hasn't gained more traction.
Last edited by Browning 35 on Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:22 pm

Browning 35 wrote:I don't know why it hasn't gained more traction.
It's a stackable .357. You'd think all the folks who like to rag on 9mm and swear by .45 would flock to it, but I guess it's just a little too hairy. I don't think ammo is really more expensive than .45 now.

It was the first caliber I wanted, but I got smart and went with 9mm because I wanted to shoot a lot without blowing up credit cards. I've certainly managed to do that enough building AR's.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:37 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:I don't know why it hasn't gained more traction.
It's a stackable .357. You'd think all the folks who like to rag on 9mm and swear by .45 would flock to it, but I guess it's just a little too hairy.
Yeah, I don't know. Recoil even with the full power stuff isn't *that* bad. Maybe everyone just thinks it'll be horrible.
I don't think ammo is really more expensive than .45 now.
Online if you do the slightest little bit of looking around prices are about the same.

Finding it in a local store the 10mm costs 10-20% more for some reason.
It was the first caliber I wanted, but I got smart and went with 9mm because I wanted to shoot a lot without blowing up credit cards. I've certainly managed to do that enough building AR's.
I hear ya. I wanted one for years and years before I broke down and bought that G-20. Glad I did. Kind of rekindled the fun of shooting a pistol again.

There's actually a Glock 29SF. If you do take the plunge you might want to check it out. The SF part if it might make the grip more comfortable. That wasn't around when I had my G-30.
Mr. E. Monkey wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:Why do you want to shoot penguins? What did they ever do to you?
It's that smug, superior attitude of theirs, strutting around in their fancy outfits like they're better than everyone else. Yeah, burn in hell, you snobbish bird bastards.

And don't get me started on pandas!

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:29 am

I own both the 19 and the 29SF. Both are awesome guns. The SF makes the gun compared to the non-SF. It's really a big improvement.
I reload 10mm to 10% of max. So, yeah, almost full house 10mm loads.
The recoil is heavier than a 9mm but not uncontrollable. Pearce grips are 100% the way to go. The 29 can take 15 rd mags so capacity is a wash.
The 29 is noticeably wider but not uncomfortable.
The 29 hits steel plates with authority, noticeably so. 9mm kind of knocks them over, 10mm smashes them down.
The 29 is heavier but just as accurate, the extra weight help recoil as well as the double sprung recoil rod.
The 19 is easier to shoot and fits my hand better. I'm faster with the 19 between shot to shot but only in the hundreths of seconds.
Both are two of my favorite guns. For rural use with a 15 rd mag as back up, well, the 29 wins. For use as a daily carry, I'd go 19.

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Ten Eight » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:35 am

Gingerbread Man wrote:I own both the 19 and the 29SF. Both are awesome guns. The SF makes the gun compared to the non-SF. It's really a big improvement.
I reload 10mm to 10% of max. So, yeah, almost full house 10mm loads.
The recoil is heavier than a 9mm but not uncontrollable. Pearce grips are 100% the way to go. The 29 can take 15 rd mags so capacity is a wash.
The 29 is noticeably wider but not uncomfortable.
The 29 hits steel plates with authority, noticeably so. 9mm kind of knocks them over, 10mm smashes them down.
The 29 is heavier but just as accurate, the extra weight help recoil as well as the double sprung recoil rod.
The 19 is easier to shoot and fits my hand better. I'm faster with the 19 between shot to shot but only in the hundreths of seconds.
Both are two of my favorite guns. For rural use with a 15 rd mag as back up, well, the 29 wins. For use as a daily carry, I'd go 19.
Truth be spoken. Also, a stiffer recoil spring can help with the recoil a bit with the 29. It saves some wear on the frame too.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:26 pm

Anyone have a M&P 10?
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Beowolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:48 pm

Yep. Still haven't had time to shoot it, though.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Gingerbread Man » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:56 pm

Beowolf wrote:Yep. Still haven't had time to shoot it, though.
Killin' me smalls. Every review seems positive but I have yet to own a AR-10 that runs. No, I will not spend $3000 on an LMT. :lol:
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Beowolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:57 pm

You're welcome to come to Colorado and take mine for a test drive. ;) Might motivate me to get my butt to a range finally. :clownshoes:
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by RickOShea » Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Gingerbread Man wrote:Killin' me smalls. Every review seems positive but I have yet to own a AR-10 that runs. No, I will not spend $3000 on an LMT. :lol:
You shoulda got one when they were $2500. :P


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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:39 pm

Anybody know if Blackhawk makes a SERPA style holster without the goofy trigger release tab thing ?

I like Blackhawk's stuff, but I hate the little trigger release tab that most of their plastic holsters come with.

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Whiskey » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:56 pm

I would just go with something else then. The SERPA is that trigger well retention button. Otherwise it would just be any other cheap injection molded (plastic poly fiber stuff) holster.

If you don't want that trigger retention, I would go kydex. Unless there is something I'm missing.


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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Rednex » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:30 pm

Chimp RTFsquard makes kydex holsters, i think Gingerbreadman got a few from him and liked them.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:39 pm

Rednex wrote:Chimp RTFsquard makes kydex holsters, i think Gingerbreadman got a few from him and liked them.
Yeah, I think Gingerbread Man has a couple of RTF's holsters.

I'll send him a PM and see what kind of holster he can whip up for me.

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by TheLastOne » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:35 pm

giggity AK magpul grips are shipping

Will wait for AIM to get them back in stock with free shipping. Midway wants to charge almost 8$ to ship the damn thing :roll: suck that
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:43 am

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
Rednex wrote:Chimp RTFsquard makes kydex holsters, i think Gingerbreadman got a few from him and liked them.
Yeah, I think Gingerbread Man has a couple of RTF's holsters.

I'll send him a PM and see what kind of holster he can whip up for me.
Lol, yeah, a couple. He's working on my 5-6th and I only have 5-30 to go. :lol:

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by northernxposure » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:01 am

The continued lack of 22LR/9mm in my AO has me :vmad: .

Trivial, I know, as I've amassed a reasonable amount via the web and the good folks here that have constantly refocused my attention to other sources. Still a PITA when squirrel season is on us and I can't grab a brick on the way home.

I think the single most infuriating thing is that there's always 40 on the shelf of all varieties. Always. And usually more than few boxes of 45ACP. Regardless the store, regardless cost. It's enough to make a guy want another pistol.

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Ten Eight » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:55 pm

I wonder what a 34 cut down to take 26 mags would look like. Hmm.
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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:27 pm

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Re: Firearms Chat: Stipple that, home edition

Post by northernxposure » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:36 pm

Ten Eight wrote:I wonder what a 34 cut down to take 26 mags would look like. Hmm.
Re-dic-a-lous. There's a pic out there of a cut down Gen2 G17 to a 26 and honestly would not want. I don't mind the look of chopping down a size, but when you go two sizes it gets a little odd...

Now a G34 to a G19 grip and you're getting somewhere.

JMO.

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