Are shotguns worthwhile?

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Sins
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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Sins » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:12 pm

AnonEmouse wrote: blah blah blah....I'm a modern day grizzly adams...
As regards hogs and bear , have you *ever* utilised a shotgun on either one?
I condensed it some for readability and to save others the testosterone driven machismo bullshit...

Anyway... to answer your question...
A shotgun worked just fine on this hog at about 150 yards no less.

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Actually... I have to be honest. I could not find a picture on my phone of anything I have killed. In all fairness.. It was my twelve year old son that killed this one...lol
I think that makes an even stronger case though when a twelve year old can take care of business with a shotgun, to keep one around.
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Also pretty fucking presumptuous to assess my credentials because I said I have spent a week in the wilderness without seeing wildlife.
What if I told you I spent a year on earth without seeing Christmas... would that mean I'm a year old???
Last edited by Sins on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Dragon80 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:26 pm

Sins wrote:
AnonEmouse wrote: blah blah blah....I'm a modern day grizzly adams...
As regards hogs and bear , have you *ever* utilised a shotgun on either one?
I condensed it some for readability and to save others the testosterone driven machismo bullshit...

Anyway... to answer your question...
A shotgun worked just fine on this hog at about 150 yards no less.

Image

Also pretty fucking presumptuous to assess my credentials because I said I have spent a week in the wilderness without seeing wildlife.
What if I told you I spent a year on earth without seeing Christmas... would that mean I'm a year old???
Ermagherd, that had to be a race built, one of a kind shotgun with a custom choke, and hand loads to work at that distance!!! :roll:
BOB also used for backpacking
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114606

GHB dedicated thread in need of serious updating!!!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112108

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Sins » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:35 pm

Dragon80 wrote:
Ermagherd, that had to be a race built, one of a kind shotgun with a custom choke, and hand loads to work at that distance!!! :roll:
We actually had been out all day with zero luck. It was his birthday and I promised him we would stay out til we found one.
About an hour before sunset I spotted one way in the distance. He had a 20 gauge bolt action with two in the magazine and one in the pipe. In all fairness, it took three shots. The first two missed, and the last one hit as it was running away.
I was a proud dad.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by RonnyRonin » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:51 pm

I think the body armor aspect is often overlooked, a few of you did mention it though.

body armor is CHEAP. I'm surprised more people don't have it. I've purchased probably 5 soft armor vests, none of them cost over $100. The two I still have are level II, and cost $35 and $60. because of that I assume anyone with an ebay account could have soft armor that can defeat most handgun and shotgun loads (yes I know, broken ribs, excruciating pain, blah blah blah...) and plan accordingly.

not a deciding factor but something to keep in mind.
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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Whiskey » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:39 pm

I bought my Mossberg 500 back in the day when I thought everyone NEEDED a pistol, rifle, and shotgun. I've shot it maybe 5 times in as many years.

Shotguns aren't bad weapons, just limited in what they can do. For any SD/HD/SHTF I would prefer my AR.

However, you can get a Mossberg or even a Maverick for CHEAP.

I wouldn't have anything bad to say about a person with 6 months of food/water/savings and a shotgun, as opposed to a person that has a nice AR and none of those other things.


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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Dave_M » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:19 am

AnonEmouse wrote: Disagree , at short ranges , read 15 yards and under bucksot is superior to a rifle.
You know, this is one of the reasons why entry teams tend to use shotguns as opposed to AR/M16's whenever possible.
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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by AnonEmouse » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:36 am

Sins wrote:
AnonEmouse wrote: blah blah blah....I'm a modern day grizzly adams...
?


I 'm * presumptous* look in a mirror bud , 'cause you define the word. And that hopg went what , maybe a 100 -125 lbs , , whoop de do. Get back to me when you're actually taking some full size ones. And up yours with your " modern day grizzly addams" comment . Lets see here , I shot my first hog in 1968 , that was Texas and I have hunted 'em quite literally from coast to coast and have seen quite a lot of folks FAIL as rgerds hogs with a shotgun.

Ya missed the goddamn point , shotguns are less than optimal for any sort of distance work beyond the 100 yard mark , and nope I don't believe that "150 yards" , 9 out of 10 people can't estimate distance worth a damn..

AGAIN , you missed the entire point , in favor of a chestbeating screed 'cause folks wouldn't immediately jump on your bandwagon . By the way , I've also hunted in states where you were *only* allowed to use a slug gun , so I'm quite well acquainted with the use of 'em.

I detailed the scenarios wherein a shotgun has an advantage , you however want it to be a "be all end all" weaopon and there is NO SUCH THING.

You want to get deep into the ballistics of the various slugs? Retained energy? Drop factors? Hey hows about the factor of WEIGHT of the projectile , guess what clown , there are rifles that will carry a projectile that's HEAVIER than most slugs , that includes things such as the 550 grain Jae-Bak Young crates I favor for bear defense in .45-70 , a 1 oz slug is 437.5 grains , this is without taking into account PROFILE and the fact that slugs shed velocity VERY quickly compared to a given rifle bullet.

You're gonna run your mouth when you most likely can't even detail the differences between a standard slug , a Foster type slug and a Brenneke type slug , much less saboted slugs.

In closing YEAH I DO now doubt your "qualifications" , as anything other than a chestpounder. A " week in the wilderness" is NO " qualification" , it's a vacation , get back to me when you have lived and worked in the " wilderness" for extended periods.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Waywatcher » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:14 am

Whiskey wrote:However, you can get a Mossberg or even a Maverick for CHEAP.

I wouldn't have anything bad to say about a person with 6 months of food/water/savings and a shotgun, as opposed to a person that has a nice AR and none of those other things.
That is a very good point, and easy for a gun enthusiast to overlook.

A healthy dose of the bigger picture. I totally agree.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by greenbeetle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:48 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Dragon80 wrote:Are shotguns worthwhile? The answer is emphatically yes. They wouldn't have survived the test of time if they weren't. The 1911 has, as have black powder and other seevrely outdated firearms.

Modern sporting rifles can take every type of game in the US (laws notwithstanding) at varying ranges. Shotguns are limited to 200yd at best with a slug barrel, are slwo to reload, kick like hell (poor follow-up shots) and aren't terribly accurate.
Is the 1911 outdated?

I don't think anyone advocates a black powder rifle as the ultimate self-defense, do-all or hunting package.

Haven't seen many people upland game / duck hunting with .22s and ARs.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Waywatcher » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:02 am

greenbeetle wrote:Is the 1911 outdated?

I don't think anyone advocates a black powder rifle as the ultimate self-defense, do-all or hunting package.

Haven't seen many people upland game / duck hunting with .22s and ARs.
Upland game / duck hunting is usually legally required to use a shotgun, and ground swatting is usually frowned upon. Hunting in that sense is more about sport, than sustenance.

My last time turkey hunting, I was 100% sure I could headshot them with my rested scoped rifle at about 75 yards, but was legally required to use a shotgun and was thus out of range. They never came close enough for a shotgun. A lot of modern hunting is about being sporting instead of being efficient, and I think that probably describes a shotgun fairly well; sporting but not efficient, outside of a few very specialized niche roles.
Last edited by Waywatcher on Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by greenbeetle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:08 am

Shotgun's low cost and ammunition versatility might go a long way for a lot of folks. Are you going to hunt squirrels/birds/rabbits with a .308 and scatter their parts all over the forest?

"That's what my .22 is for"

So you're going to shoot coyote and deer with your .22?

"That's what my .308 is for"

So now you have 2 guns. I thought you didn't like the added weight and bulk of shotgun ammo.



Seems like a matter of personal preference. Many here seem focused on combat capabilities... Like knives, no gun does it all and shotguns have their limitations. But personally I'm not sure why so many people are pooping on them.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by ArmchairRacer » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:41 am

Whiskey touched on it. For About $300 you can pick up a Mossberg 500 or Rem 870, brand new if you watch for sales. If someone is on a budget this makes a lot more sense than spending another 6 months saving for an AR just to have a decent hd platform. A 18 inch shotty loaded with buck may not be AS effective as an AR but will still get the job done at short ranges.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Sins » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:11 am

I
AnonEmouse wrote:
Sins wrote:
AnonEmouse wrote: blah blah blah....I'm a modern day grizzly adams...
?


I 'm * presumptous* look in a mirror bud , 'cause you define the word. And that hopg went what , maybe a 100 -125 lbs , , whoop de do. Get back to me when you're actually taking some full size ones. And up yours with your " modern day grizzly addams" comment . Lets see here , I shot my first hog in 1968 , that was Texas and I have hunted 'em quite literally from coast to coast and have seen quite a lot of folks FAIL as rgerds hogs with a shotgun.

Ya missed the goddamn point , shotguns are less than optimal for any sort of distance work beyond the 100 yard mark , and nope I don't believe that "150 yards" , 9 out of 10 people can't estimate distance worth a damn..

AGAIN , you missed the entire point , in favor of a chestbeating screed 'cause folks wouldn't immediately jump on your bandwagon . By the way , I've also hunted in states where you were *only* allowed to use a slug gun , so I'm quite well acquainted with the use of 'em.

I detailed the scenarios wherein a shotgun has an advantage , you however want it to be a "be all end all" weaopon and there is NO SUCH THING.

You want to get deep into the ballistics of the various slugs? Retained energy? Drop factors? Hey hows about the factor of WEIGHT of the projectile , guess what clown , there are rifles that will carry a projectile that's HEAVIER than most slugs , that includes things such as the 550 grain Jae-Bak Young crates I favor for bear defense in .45-70 , a 1 oz slug is 437.5 grains , this is without taking into account PROFILE and the fact that slugs shed velocity VERY quickly compared to a given rifle bullet.

You're gonna run your mouth when you most likely can't even detail the differences between a standard slug , a Foster type slug and a Brenneke type slug , much less saboted slugs.

In closing YEAH I DO now doubt your "qualifications" , as anything other than a chestpounder. A " week in the wilderness" is NO " qualification" , it's a vacation , get back to me when you have lived and worked in the " wilderness" for extended periods.
Do us a favor and ignore me.
When... tell me when did I claim a shotgun was the end all weapon?
Name one!
I made a simple statement...
If there is ever you are at a pont that wildlife cannot be found on the ground, you can usually find it in the air.

Is that too fucking complicated for you to fathom???

You're the one who jumped in with your shitty attitude because I made that one simple statement.

Go re-read through the thread...

That's ALL I said!!

Frankly if I had to pick an "end all" weapon, I don't know that I could

Sorry you're butthurt cause I immediately responded to your assumption that I have never shot a hog with a shotgun. Sorry it didn't meet your stringent qualifications.

All of that is a fucking mute point..

All I want to know is exactly where in the fuck did I claim a shotgun was an end all...and where was I presumptuous.

My qualifications are meaningless as well as yours are... I could give a shit less. Your a typical internet Rambo in my opinion.

Jesus Christ... I just re-read your post..


Your fucking PSYCHOTIC!!!

Quote me.... please


Where in the fuck did I talk about "retained energy", "ballistics", or "drop factors"

I got your number bud... Your an internet troll pulling shit out of your ass for the sake of debate, because I said NONE OF THAT!!!!!!

By all means though...Quote me or ignore me.. I definitely will ignore you soon as I get home and on the pc
Last edited by Sins on Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by Dragon80 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:17 am

ArmchairRacer wrote:Whiskey touched on it. For About $300 you can pick up a Mossberg 500 or Rem 870, brand new if you watch for sales. If someone is on a budget this makes a lot more sense than spending another 6 months saving for an AR just to have a decent hd platform. A 18 inch shotty loaded with buck may not be AS effective as an AR but will still get the job done at short ranges.
Or an H&R Pardner Pump 18.5" for around $175-180 which is based off of the Browning receiver but everything else is compatible with the Remington 870. Bought my dad one, great shotgun for the money.
BOB also used for backpacking
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114606

GHB dedicated thread in need of serious updating!!!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112108

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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by angelofwar » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:16 pm

Well, squirrel, one of the most abundant animals in north america and a staple in the diet of early americans, is a LOT easier to kill with a shotty compared to a rifle. That's the only justification I need. I have 3 (2 870s, one home defense, 1 hunting) and a marlin break action, all in 12ga). Guess what my boys are getting for their 18th? 870 all the way.
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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by doc66 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:38 pm

How many squirrel will there be when everyone is hunting them? Besides, you can take a squirrel with a freaking rifle as well; read .22 drop in conversion. Hell, shoot it with a FMJ 5.56, it's just as dead.

Listen, the shotgun is nice, it's fun, I like them, I also know that they can not take the place of a good rifle. But a good rifle can take the same game as a shotgun. Let me explain.

When we reach a SHTF situation, the rules we hunt by will go out the window. You can shoot water fowl on the ground, you can take turkey with a rifle, you can net dove, you can kill a deer out of season, if it gets to that point.

Living in the world we live in today, with hunting laws and rules and regulations, a shotgun is a necessary part of the battery if you hunt as much as you can, you simply have to have them. For defense, nothing beats a well appointed rifle; yes, read M4 style. The shotgun is fine for people who have no other choice, it's politically correct, it doesn't look evil, it's not associated with military fatigues, the police used to use them a lot. But if you have a choice, if you actually weigh the options and be reasonable about it, it's beat by a good carbine every time.

Is a shotgun worthwhile? If you are hunting in today's world, yes. I occasionally have a shotgun as my night time bed side companion.

Is a shotgun worthwhile? If the SHTF you are better served with a good rifle and competent training than any other weapon in your battery. If we get to this point, one of my M4 alikes will be the constant companion, not a shotgun. As Sam Elliot once said, "No man would defend his home with a shotgun." He was talking about a ranch, but those are Words of Wisdom.

Buy a shotgun, OP, buy it and have fun, out fit it with all the cool kid stuff, get the Esstac side saddle, put an extended tube on it, good sights and a white light if you want, but do not let the myth of the shotgun be your guide. Also invest in a good, well appointed carbine of your choice, because that's what you should have by your bed.
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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by TheLastRifleMan » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:54 pm

Locked pending Moderator Team Review.
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Re: Are shotguns worthwhile?

Post by TheLastRifleMan » Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:32 pm

This thread is permanently locked. The OP had a reasonable and interesting question and I am sorry to say that the same cannot be said of some of the other responses posted.
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