Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by AKFTW » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:44 am

Ten Eight wrote:
northernxposure wrote:The 9mm unicorn is starting to piss. me. off. :vmad:

Rumor has it that 3rdgen Glock frames are similar between the G22/G17/G31, with the exception of the extractor and top end. 40's on the shelves (same as last time, damnit). It's enough to force a guy to find a used G22/35 upper...

Also - are the members (AKFTW - I know you've got one) still happy with their AA kits? Might as well get a 22LR upper too.

Sucks. I'm not destitute by any means, but it does suck not being able to shoot as much as I'd like too.


NXP

I hearts mine, with a but. My 17 kit eats the garbage 22 that AA says not to use. I get a misfire every mag or two when it starts to get dirty around 300ish, but my friend's 17 kit won't eat the rubbish 22 at all. 6-7 misfires per mag. If you feed it CCIs, it runs fine. His kit has a lot more rounds through it though. I hope that's not a sign of the future. I've only shot 600 or so through mine.

I'd buy another one. Buy extra mags. It gets annoying reloading one mag every ten rounds. I only have three mags, and it's still annoying. I'm going to buy a few more along with the threaded barrel.

I haven't run subs through mine yet. Has anybody done that? Does it cycle?
Round count on mine? Let me put it this way... I already sent it back to the factory for new springs and a rebuild. I'd estimate 40K.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Ten Eight » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:54 am

Geeebusss :shock: . At what point is a rebuild recommended? Just so I know for future reference...it'd be good to put that info on a sticky note in the box.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by AKFTW » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:02 am

Ten Eight wrote:Geeebusss :shock: . At what point is a rebuild recommended? Just so I know for future reference...it'd be good to put that info on a sticky note in the box.
I was just having trouble with some FTEs once I got to about 27K rounds through it. I used to shoot a carton of Golden Bullets every other weekend.... Now I can't even find any :cry:
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by AKFTW » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:19 am

This ammo drought is making me really sad. Does anyone have a good, concrete explanation on why it's taken so long for .22LR of all things to show up? And where's all the Russian ammo?
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Ten Eight » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:51 am

With 22LR, I was reading that manufacturers only make it seasonally, and make the entire year's estimated amounts all at one time. No idea if this is true or not. My theory is that everybody that went through this last time remembered that there was 22 available in 2008, as conversion kits weren't that readily known about yet. After 2008, people got turned on to 22 training guns and conversions kits as a way to ride out the inevitable next shortage, which just occured. Now there are all these additional 22s to feed, and people scarfing them.

I'd like to know where all the Russian ammo too. If anybody knows if it's related to politics and the recently issued executive orders, P.M me please.
Last edited by Ten Eight on Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:54 am

Ten Eight wrote:With 22LR, I was reading that they only make it seasonally, and make the entire year's estimated amounts all at one time. No idea if this is true or not.

I'd like to know where all the Russian ammo too. If anybody knows if it's related to politics and the recently issued executive orders, P.M me please.
.22 is made year round. The problem is that everyone is buying it up and either sitting on it, or tryign to resale it, and I hope every single one of them gets busted by the IRS. Buncha dicks.

The Russian ammo is out there, but it's jsut as expensive as the Filipino ammo or Mexican ammo. Same reason. Wolf x39 and 223 is on gunbot right now.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Ten Eight » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:58 am

Thanks for the clarification Doc.

+1 for the Walmart app again. Scored another 150 9mm Federal to shoot this weekend @ 13.97 per 50. I keep finding 150 every two weeks or so thanks to the app. It's allowing me not to shoot up my 9mm stash. No luck yet with .22 or .223 yet.

Edit: Just looked at Gun Bot. Still cheaper to shoot my 10mm than my 9mm :shock:.

Double Edit: PSA currently has 600x XM855 in an ammo can for $399.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by colinz » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:44 am

There's been no flow on effects to NZ from the situation in the US that I know of yet. Yet.

It probably helps that we get reasonably large shipments of stuff from Russia and China too.

I've been thinking about the supposed 'batch manufacture' of .22LR, and it doesn't make any sense. A business is better off running smaller machines constantly (or scaling back production of larger machines) than running big ones balls out for a while and then shutting them down for a long period. In general anyway.

I mean, it's not as though ammunition manufacture is like fruit and veggie or dairy processing where you have to wait for specific seasons to process your product.

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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Krustofski » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:12 am

colinz wrote:There's been no flow on effects to NZ from the situation in the US that I know of yet. Yet.

It probably helps that we get reasonably large shipments of stuff from Russia and China too.

I've been thinking about the supposed 'batch manufacture' of .22LR, and it doesn't make any sense. A business is better off running smaller machines constantly (or scaling back production of larger machines) than running big ones balls out for a while and then shutting them down for a long period. In general anyway.

I mean, it's not as though ammunition manufacture is like fruit and veggie or dairy processing where you have to wait for specific seasons to process your product.
The manufacturing of certain chemicals is (and needs to be) done in batches, though.

I mean, like every hobby chemist I can make nitrocellulose at home... no, I could make nitrocellulose at home (forum rules ;) ), it's really pretty simple. Manufacturers of smokeless powder are unlikely ever to run out of cellulose or sulfuric acid, but there have been times when ammunition manufacturing was severely hampered by lack of nitric acid. Shit, in WWII the allies managed to cut of Germany from saltpeter sources and destroy the chemical industry so completely, we had to resort to stretching smokeless powder with other ammonium salts.

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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by colinz » Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:49 am

I definitely get what you're saying Krustofski. :-)

Im still not sure I understand how someone came up with the theory that manufacturers make X amount of .22LR and then just turn the machines off though.

There's a big difference between that and running out of materials that are used in production.

ETA: I know Im explaining what I mean really badly too. :-(

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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by desert fox » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:46 am

Ten Eight wrote:Thanks for the clarification Doc.

+1 for the Walmart app again. Scored another 150 9mm Federal to shoot this weekend @ 13.97 per 50. I keep finding 150 every two weeks or so thanks to the app. It's allowing me not to shoot up my 9mm stash. No luck yet with .22 or .223 yet.

Edit: Just looked at Gun Bot. Still cheaper to shoot my 10mm than my 9mm :shock:.

Double Edit: PSA currently has 600x XM855 in an ammo can for $399.


downloading now......but how has it helped find ammo?
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Makarov » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:24 am

Got a call from a buddy today. Midway Norway actually now sells AR's again, and they have some Colt carbines in stock.
I don't think there has been sold any new Colt's in at least 15 years here in Norway (all we could choose between where DPMS, Bushmaster and Stag Arms), so this is good news.

The downside? They want $4271 for a LE6920. That's about $1700 more than they "should" cost.

On the other hand they also has gotten some DPMS and Bushmaster carbines in, and they want approx the same amount of $ for those, so it's not like they've singled out the Colts to make $$ out of.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by desert fox » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:31 am

Never mind once I decided to actually wake up and download the app I found it to be very useful scored myself 3 boxes
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by zobmiedown » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:12 pm

I'm just going to leave this here as info on the current situation we are facing for firearms and ammunition. It came in my email from Brownelles so I trust the source.

Brownells Gunsmith Corner - March 2013





Shortages - They're Not A Conspiracy
By Jim Shepherd





Wherever you're accustomed to getting your shooting news these days, chances are you're hearing – repeatedly – that the industry is suffering from chronic shortages of guns, ammunition, and components, most particularly those designed to be used on the modern sporting rifle.

Over the past six weeks, I've been across the country, and I can tell you from talking with retailers in big cities like Phoenix, Atlanta and Houston to small gun shops in Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Mississippi, Arizona, Georgia and Texas that the shortages are real. I've also spoken at length with manufacturers, and they're all telling me the same thing: the shortages aren't driven by a government conspiracy or hoarding. They're being driven by demand. And a lot of that demand is fueled by new shooters, despite some politicians who would like you to believe that the number of U.S. households with guns is dropping.

The shortages most often reported concern the modern sporting rifle and accessories that politicians have targeted since the Sandy Hook tragedy.

Sure, there's unprecedentedly high demand for AR-style rifles, standard 30-round magazines, and the 5.56/.223 ammunition most of them are chambered to shoot.

But there's also a huge demand for standard-capacity magazines for today's modern striker-fired polymer pistols from Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Taurus, Glock, and many other manufacturers. Demand is also high for magazines for Ruger ranch rifles and virtually any other gun that accepts a magazine with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. Tried to find any 25-round magazines for a Ruger 10/22® rifle lately? Don't - unless you want to get really frustrated.

Executives at major gun companies, accessory makers, and the major ammo brands tell me they've seen periods of high demand before, but nothing so long-lasting or as widely varied as today's demand. They're doing everything they can to catch up on a growing backlog of orders. But here's the short version of that story: it's going to take time.

We don't realize how intertwined the varied shooting disciplines really are. You may have a hard time figuring out why you can't find reloading components for shot shells. But consider this: all ammunition shares some base-level components - powder, primers and projectiles.

The ammunition to fuel your gun of choice, be it a rifle, pistol or shotgun, is in competition with every other gun and ammo for the basic components and the manufacturer's machine time to assemble them.

Companies don't have independent production lines for every gun they make or every caliber of ammunition they load.

That time is shared across all their lines, and it's tough to pull the tools and computer controlled programming for AR-style rifles to fill other orders. Simple business sense says you have to keep working to meet the highest-demand orders. If buyers give up on buying your gun, they're going to go looking elsewhere.

So your favorite round or gun may be finding itself pushed further down the production schedule. As that happens, existing inventory shrinks - even if the demand isn't anything approaching those uber-hot black rifles.

You might be feeling the pinch, but it's not really some secret conspiracy to keep you from having guns or ammunition. It's the market reacting to unprecedented demand for products.

Some people snapped up guns and ammo when they could find them. They weren't buying them for their own use; they were planning to roll them out during the hottest demand times and make a killing by price gouging. Here's a secret from watching demand periods in the past: speculators very seldom make money. Usually, they lose money because they try to guess prices when they're the highest.

Unfortunately, they can't, or at least they haven't been able to in the past. Speculating is a risky business, especially when the demand will slack off as soon as manufacturers begin catching up. When they do - and they will - speculators will find themselves on the short end of the deal.

Reputable manufacturers, distributors and retailers haven't jacked up their prices. It's not that kind of industry, and the gun consumer has a very long memory. Risking your long-term success in order to make a short-term profit is the equivalent of booking the express train to failure.

Finally, it's not just "regular guys" like us who are looking for ammo. I know several TV show producers and noted gun writers who are out there scrounging for ammo just like the rest of us.

Jim Shepherd is editor and publisher of The Outdoor Wire (http://www.theoutdoorwire.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and The Shooting Wire (http://www.shootingwire.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), all parts of The Outdoor Wire Digital Network.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:39 pm

zobmiedown wrote:standard-capacity magazines
I just hit that line in the article, I couldn't wait to finish it.

Thank fucking Christ someone with access to a keyboard is using that descriptor instead of the other one.

That's starting to get like 'clips' for me.

Vaguely related, the military vets in my family say 'clips'. One I won't correct out of respect (Korea and Vietnam), the other isn't worth the argument (Iraq 2). ::sigh::
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:56 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:
zobmiedown wrote:standard-capacity magazines
I just hit that line in the article, I couldn't wait to finish it.

Thank fucking Christ someone with access to a keyboard is using that descriptor instead of the other one.

That's starting to get like 'clips' for me.

Vaguely related, the military vets in my family say 'clips'. One I won't correct out of respect (Korea and Vietnam), the other isn't worth the argument (Iraq 2). ::sigh::
We've had the mag/clip discussion here. 99% of the time, if mag/clip pisses you off, you're beign a prick and you should feel bad. It's like beemer/bimmer or gun/firearm. For some reason I can say scattergun, shotgat, fowling piece, bangrod, killstick, hatedispenser, lead launcher, or gatpiece and everyone knwos what I mean and nobody pitches a fit. Someone says "clip" instead of "mag/magazine" and suddenly you think they're trying to put a stripper clip or enbloc into a Glock? Go fuck yourself with a charger. It's one thing to ask for clarification (if someone mentions a dustcover or grenade launcher on an AR, I ask because there are at least two things I've heard called a grenade launcher by a newbie, and four or five called a dustcover) but being a dick just to be a dick is dickish.

Sorry to single you out, dudebro, but hop off your high horse. It's not a big deal. Only reason I think it ever became a big deal was the groupthink/hivemind in the early days using it as a Shibboleth.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by raxar » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:]

Vaguely related, the military vets in my family say 'clips'. One I won't correct out of respect (Korea and Vietnam), the other isn't worth the argument (Iraq 2). ::sigh::
I think the term the military uses is "fucking clips"
...although my tactical get up is a tarzan loin cloth and giant lolly pop
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Rednex » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:29 pm

I forget what weekend it was but with in the last month i went to the range. The guy working the one counter was kinda a douch to everyone , then a older guy walks in with a pistol case. Counter guy says Hi can i see your weapon, older guy hands it over the counter guy checks for a clear pistol. The older guy says hi yes i need another clip for my pistol. The counter guy hands him a paper clip and says here ya go. The older guy takes it and looks lost. The counter guy says this is a magazine this is a clip. That all happened as i was on my way out.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by docdredd » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:30 pm

raxar wrote:
Sledgecrowbar wrote:]

Vaguely related, the military vets in my family say 'clips'. One I won't correct out of respect (Korea and Vietnam), the other isn't worth the argument (Iraq 2). ::sigh::
I think the term the military uses is "fucking clips"
Correct the hand receipts read:

Clips, Fucking 1 each.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:55 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:Someone says "clip" instead of "mag/magazine" and suddenly you think they're trying to put a stripper clip or enbloc into a Glock?
I agree, you know what they're talking about, but clip/mag is just the most well-known example. I get people all day long asking me for clutch fans when they mean fan clutches and chains when they means belts and belts when they mean chains. Those are all obvious, but I can't help but get annoyed when it turns into a ten-minute hunt for something that doesn't exist, and it's just nicer to converse with someone when they don't sound like a mall ninja.
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:It's like beemer/bimmer
Them's is fightin' words. :awesome:

Rednex wrote:I forget what weekend it was but with in the last month i went to the range. The guy working the one counter was kinda a douch to everyone , then a older guy walks in with a pistol case. Counter guy says Hi can i see your weapon, older guy hands it over the counter guy checks for a clear pistol. The older guy says hi yes i need another clip for my pistol. The counter guy hands him a paper clip and says here ya go. The older guy takes it and looks lost. The counter guy says this is a magazine this is a clip. That all happened as i was on my way out.
I'll jest with a customer, but that's just over the line of doucheyness that I wouldn't cross, with any polite, paying customer, but especially someone elder to me. I can think whatever I like, but I'm not going to treat someone poorly who's asking for help that it's my job to provide. That's a great way to A) get fired, or B) go out of business.

In that situation, if I really, *really* wanted to correct the guy, I might politely ask for clarity, without being condescending, maybe something like, "Hey, you mean a magazine, right? Not like a stripper clip to load a line of rounds into the mag? Just making sure I don't get you the wrong thing, we carry both." I might go as far as getting both items if it was for an AR, where mags and clips are both reasonably common, and then maybe offering to sell both to the guy. :)

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Clip, Fucking 1 ea NSN 7510-00-161-4292
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by raxar » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:56 pm

total korean gun nerd boner



I'm hoping the mags fit in the dp51, I'm hurtin' for some extras.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by Shiloh » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:32 pm

:ooh: DoWant. DoWant. DoWant. DoWant.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by TheLastOne » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:14 pm

Good article on brownells. Can't wait for this shit to back down. The man's don't seem to keen on letting go if the hype though. It's going to be a long wait on bullets I think.

Good point on the gougers. (Says the guy who sold his AR for $2500). I'm not doing business with cheaper than dirt ever. Or luckygunner. Midway has mostly held steady, BCM, topgunsupply is ok. Ammunitiontogo is pushing it. Wideners is pushing it with nearly 40c/rd on wolf x39. C'mon.

I'll buy magpul shit on principal now if it is functional shit I can use. I like their handguards anyway; $30 and they work. I don't need rail mounted shit anyway.

Meanwhile, I'd love to find 22lr reliably at LEAST. Damn. I have maybe 5k, but that isn't that much if we're talking a year out.
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Re: Firearms CHAT, the whateverth

Post by colinz » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:20 pm

Just out of curiosity, what sort of shooting are you guys doing, and how much ammo are you using on an average 'range trip'?

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