What's the most effective portable firearm?

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What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by PistolPete » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:06 am

I've been having a conversation with a friend and wanted to get some input from the people here. We sometimes like to postulate a scenario and come up with the best answer, just a mental exercise. The one we've been discussing lately is how to go about your day to day life during a period of civil unrest.

Just because there may be rioting in a city doesn't mean you can stop going to work. Or the doctor. Or the grocers. These are often temporary situations and coming out of it without a job is sub-optimal. So we've been discussing how to beef up an EDC kit for a higher risk situation. Since this is firearms I'll present that portion here.

What is the most effective (or most effective for the money) firearm you can carry in a laptop bag? (assuming a laptop bag is 18" x 12" or so) Is it a full size handgun? Some sort of folding stock SBR? Does the mantra "rifle first, rifle always" mean one should consider a 10/22 takedown with a few 25 round mags over a Glock 34? Is this the baliwick of the Sub-2000? Is there finally a reason to own a short barrel KRISS? A SU-16D?

18" isn't a lot, you certainly can't fit an AR-15 SBR in it, and a folding stock AK leaves you with room only for a 6" barrel, and that's if you don't install a flash hider. Anyway, I'm curious to hear opinions. Although please keep comments constructive here. Let's just discuss why your option is a good idea and not why someone else's is a bad idea.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by Whiskey » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:24 am

Why stick yourself to a laptop bag? I'm not trying to blow up your scenario, it's well thought out, but they make low profile bags specifically for carrying short rifles as discreet as possible.


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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:41 am

Laptop bag? Still CCWing a pistol then, I assume?

Quick math says that an 18x12 laptop bag will have a diagonal of 21.(long decimal is long)" which could accomodate an SBR'd .300BO (can optional) with at least 2 mags in the case. I made a video showing how stupid fast it was to put it together, so I have no worries about having the upper and lower apart. Not like I could draw it quickly from a laptop case, but it's easy enough to have a 20 rounder in the lower and make sure the charging handle is locked to keep the BCG from moving.

Other option (tax stamp not required) would be a longer-slide pistol. For me, I'd like to have a G34 with an RDS and several more G17 mags, or (if I can make myself learn to like them) the 33rd G18 hatesticks. Faster, more accurate, a bit more punchy, easier to control, and cheaper to get into.

I'd upgrade bags before I'd go into a Sub2000. Ran the performance numbers again, and there just isn't enough gain, and I'm relatively certain that (given equal rangetime on both) I could shoot better/faster with the G34 and RDS.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by PistolPete » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:50 am

Whiskey wrote:Why stick yourself to a laptop bag? I'm not trying to blow up your scenario, it's well thought out, but they make low profile bags specifically for carrying short rifles as discreet as possible.
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The concept is a guy in a suit and carrying a laptop bag won't attract any attention at all. A guy that constantly carries around a tennis racket or guitar case may.
And yes, the concept assumes each person will have a CCW on them as part of their standard EDC. And perhaps a backup.

I'll have to play around with measurements on keeping a 300 BO pistol in the case broken down. That's a great idea and relatively affordable. (relative related to other quality AR's.)
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by JustAnotherSnakeCult » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:52 am

I'm pretty sure an SBR AMD 65 (12.5" barrel, stock folded) would fit as well.

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by DarkAxel » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:58 am

Would an SBr'd Draco with a folding stock fit in the bag?
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by raptor » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:10 pm

That is a very broad question.

My opinion:

Money no object, legality no problem I would go with an HK - M5pw
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However on a more down to earth note I think a Keltec sub 2000 in .40 S&W would work well for a reasonable expenditure. The problem of course is that to be compact it has to be folded and hence unusable until you unfold it and cock it. This kind of defeats the whole purpose.

If you wanted to spend more an FN PS 90 would also be a good choice. It is both compact and immediately usable. But the 16 inch barrel would need a larger bag.

A 10/22 compact model (16 inch) barrel with a folding stock is quite compact and with the right ammo may be ok but it would not be first choice for self defense. It would be longer than your needs and the take down model has the same problem as the kel tec.

What I do when I am nervous, I will keep an M-4gery in my vehicle in addition to my regular CCW.


I suggest a larger computer case or a gym bag or back pack. A blue, gray or subdued color one with a school logo, anything that is not black or camo. The plus side is that it will also allow you carry some other useful things like clothes and such. A firearm is useful for defense, but in a situation you describe you are likely to need more than just a firearm.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by PistolPete » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:18 pm

JustAnotherSnakeCult wrote:I'm pretty sure an SBR AMD 65 (12.5" barrel, stock folded) would fit as well.
By my measurements a folding stock AK with a 12" barrel comes in at 23" The action of an AK with no barrel is about a foot long.
DarkAxel wrote:Would an SBr'd Draco with a folding stock fit in the bag?
Maybe. With an 8" barrel it may fit in diagonally without anything jutting out.

Great idea Raptor, an MP-5 or that new HK PDW would be ideal in the space constraints. And I totally agree with having a lot more than a gun in the bag. I may start another thread in bug out gear or other gear about ideas about what else goes in the bag, I'm sure I'm overlooking something. Not that I'm going to run out and put this together, but it's an interesting mental exercise.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by raptor » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:24 pm

BTW these are typical of the briefcases I carry every day. You would be amazed at what can fit in there. The key is the right bag. It needs to look nice enough to fit in and not so oversize that it looks out of place but big enough to fit what you decide upon. Make the bag fit the choice, not vice versa. Avoid rigid cases and look for those with compartments that can be zipped so if you open them around other people the contents remain hidden. I like cases with flaps for this type of use (like the bottom case) since the flap is toward me when I open it and it naturally hides the contents.

There is nothing in mine except a computer and papers..yep..nothing interesting in there...just boring junk no one would want....no need to look in my briefcase. :crazy:

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:49 pm

8" AR in 300 blackout. This to me is the best with all factors considered. It will run quiet, it will run like a rifle and is easily 200m effective.
A Hk MP5k. This would be the most compact however the most expensive.
FN PS 90, equally expensive but very quiet suppressed, large capacity and a 200m cartridge.
The other option would be a krink but not easily suppressed and kind of heavy.

My 300 all in was under $1000. If I added a folder which I plan to will be $175 more.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by AKFTW » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:49 pm

IMO this IS the niche of the Sub-2000. I'd take an MP7 over one, but nobody has one of those anyway. :lol:

Sub-2000 can deploy fast, share pistol mags, etc. It was MADE for laptop bag carry.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by JustAnotherSnakeCult » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:27 pm

PistolPete wrote:
JustAnotherSnakeCult wrote:I'm pretty sure an SBR AMD 65 (12.5" barrel, stock folded) would fit as well.
By my measurements a folding stock AK with a 12" barrel comes in at 23" The action of an AK with no barrel is about a foot long.
Then for your scenario I’ll jump on the 300 BLK SBR band wagon. Or maybe a KRISS. Something else that hasn’t been mentioned yet is a folding stock SBS or a stockless AOW. Still sticking with the rifle round, just throwing it out there.

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by olbaid_dratsab » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:53 am

I'll limit these to non NFA items. Counting the tax stamp stuff would be too easy.

AR pistol with carbine length buffer tube for use as a, uh, singular-pod corner support stand. Ya'know for standing it up in corners.

Wiselite sterling sporter. The barrel isn't fixed. The receiver is about 18-19''. It could fit but damn near completely broken down. Same with an Uzi carbine.I don't remember, but those barrels I think come out from the front with out having to totally break the gun down.

An 870 with stock length tube and a folding stock would probably work if you carried the barrel beside it and assembled it later. Or maybe something with a 2-3rd tube.

Leinad or Crobray or someone made those double and single barrel derringers-rifle-shotgun things with underfolding stocks in .410/.45LC.

This is a concept I've been rolling around for a while;
I have a Handi rifle in .223. I want the barrel cut n' crowned at 16.5''. I want the boxy-looking thumbhole survival stock. I want a set of minamalist iron sights on it. With the stock, I want a hole through the grip and butt length-wise that I can slide the barrel into. The whole package would be the same length as the stock+receiver. Don't know what to do with the forearm yet.

Only a half of those I would prefer over any of my Glocks though. The shotgun could go either way.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by doc savage » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:26 am

that 21 inches is right at the limit to pack in an MPA10 pistol (with a sidefolder stock detached in the bag and screw in 16 inch barrel from usmachineguns.com to make it a carbine on demand)
in the bag you have the option of 16 inch barreled rifle, clip on side folding stock, instant 30 rounds of .45 auto / CCW ammo commonality, 2 or 3 greasegun mags in the bag. side-charger model with an RDS on top......

here's why i'll champion this rig.....
big bullets.....lots of them.....total setup under $600...no stamp or hassle....stocked rifle for range...small enough when fitted out as a pistol for close in work / quick deploy....

the downside? it weighs as much as the car you just jumped out of....

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by AKFTW » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:29 am

doc savage wrote:that 21 inches is right at the limit to pack in an MPA10 pistol (with a sidefolder stock detached in the bag and screw in 16 inch barrel from usmachineguns.com to make it a carbine on demand)
in the bag you have the option of 16 inch barreled rifle, clip on side folding stock, instant 30 rounds of .45 auto / CCW ammo commonality, 2 or 3 greasegun mags in the bag. side-charger model with an RDS on top......

here's why i'll champion this rig.....
big bullets.....lots of them.....total setup under $600...no stamp or hassle....stocked rifle for range...small enough when fitted out as a pistol for close in work / quick deploy....

the downside? it weighs as much as the car you just jumped out of....
How about the whole carrying constructive possession of an NFA item around with you? And the whole pistol-rifle-pistol convertibility ONLY applies to the Thompson Contender line, otherwise you'd be making an illegal SBR.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by TDW586 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:58 am

Personally, I would just go with a full-size pistol, with an RDS if you are trained with an RDS or willing to put in the training time. I haven't found the money or time to invest in a pistol RDS and put in the become comfortable with one, so iron sights for me. Add in 4-6 spare magazines and call it good. I feel comfortable dealing with any reasonable situation a non-LEO is likely to face in the US with that.

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by BigDaddyTX » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:25 am

I like the Glock with RDS to get to your car where your AR is. Maybe something like the PMR-30 if you really needed a lot of rounds. I'd just keep it in one of these :lol: :
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:37 am

My ex krink vs. 300 black out in pistol configuration with 8" suppressor.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by hatchtrikk » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:44 am

Let me get some pictures taken and I'll post them here in a bit.

My vote is for the Draco or 8" 300blk.

Edit for pics:

10.5" SBR AR
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Draco SBR with AK100 folding stock.
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SLR107UR SBR (Krink)
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The bag is a 5.11 messenger bag. Measurements on the site say it is 11x7.

The AR fits easily when broken down.

The Draco is a tight fit. Had to remove the muzzle device and the flashlight sticks out a bit.

The krink was made for this bag. Fits nicely with room to spare. FH is a Manticore Nightshroud.

I think an 8" 300blk with the LawTactical folding stock would be the best of all worlds, but in the situation OP describes, I would have to go with the Draco only because it only requires popping in the magazine to deploy.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by Browning 35 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:37 am

A pistol is going to be your main weapon in such a situation because it's the most concealable and the quickest to deploy.

Everyone has their own choices, this is mine.

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Since long guns (or guns of any type really) tend to frighten some people logic would suggest that concealing a long gun would be a good option, but it's still not really possible to take them everywhere. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying around a backpack carrying an AK or an AR in a mall or a restaurant despite whether it's legal or not. Try explaining that one to the Police if someone called on you with all these doucher's going postal.

For me mostly it would be if I'm in or near my truck and I'm confronted by someone that calls for me shooting slugs through their car. If I'm not near my truck then I'm using my pistols. The backpack or tennis racket case is just there to give it some camouflage carrying it to or from the truck so that I don't freak people out.

As people have already said if money is no object in a perfect world an SBR would be great.

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Only thing is that this option (SBR) is freaking expensive. Plus I'd hate to think of what the ATF would be like if one was stolen. So this is what I've generally gone with this if I'm keeping a rifle in my truck.

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On the right is a $20-something Wilson tennis case from Walmart and on the left is a Eberlestock backpack. Doesn't have to be this brand though, any of the longer backpacks would work.

Only thing is that when I keep it in the truck I secure/lock it when parking it to keep it from getting stolen. However because of everything in the news with people freaking out over guns and not to mention the fact that even AK's are getting expensive I've recently just gone with a folding stock 12 Ga. pump shotgun that I got for $120 and gone with that.

Around here you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a pump shotgun and they're really common. So to me they seem like they might be a little more cop/jury friendly. Plus even if that shotgun gets stolen despite the precautions I've taken (they'd have to cut metal) I'm not out a whole lot of money.

For any kind of civilian defense distances are usually pretty short and usually there isn't some huge round count. They're close up, violent and fast. If something does pop off I'm likely to use one of my pistols anyway, but the shotgun gives me a little more firepower just in case I can get to it and I'm near my truck.

If a rioting crowd tries to haul me out of a car Reginald Denny style they'd be in for a big surprise and I think I'd do alright. What those mobs are expecting is no resistance at all (and that's usually what they get, no resistance). So even a 5 shot .38 Special might do the job.

If I was in the market for another gun and carried a Glock those Kel-Tec Sub-200's would make a lot of sense, but I'm not (saving up for a .308).

This is a pretty old topic. I remember reading some of my Dads gun magazines after the Miami riots in the early 80's about how to handle such a situation (before widespread concealed carry). That article mentioned a folding stock semi .22LR rifle and then ditching it before you tried 'crossing the National Guard line'. I guess that's an option too, but I personally prefer something bigger.

Edited : Pic went down, added for clarification and fixed one typo*
Last edited by Browning 35 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by 3Fingas » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:40 am

My laptop backpack always carries my macbook. However, it could also discretely carry my Mini Draco and Glock 23 if the occasion should arise. I have never felt the need to do this and hopefully never will, but I do have a CHL and both weapons pictured are pistols. I think this would be a very good package in a gray man scenario.

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by cauldron » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:31 pm

A Winchester model 12 breaks down quickly and easily, and with an 18 inch barrel, would just fit. The stock and action measure 18 inches also.

I like the idea of a full size riot shotgun, but there are some drawbacks compared to some of the semi-auto guns other than ammunition and ballistics.

It cannot be broken down or stored broken down while loaded.

It would need to be put together (two seconds) and then loaded (5+1 shells so four to six seconds)

A 20 Ga. weighs about seven and a half pounds. (12 about eight)

The good points include it being a full size gun, the price is lower than a rifle or carbine, a shotgun is more socially acceptable than an evil zorch gun, and 00 buckshot is cool.





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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by ZombieKraft » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:46 pm

sig sauer MPX... pay the $200 tax stamp and then SBR.... actually it already has a short barrel you just have to pay a gunsmith to remove the 9.5" muzzle brake.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductL ... g-mpx.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: What's the most effective portable firearm?

Post by PistolPete » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Great pictures 3Fingas, hatchtrikk and Browning 35. And great ideas all! Thanks for all the thoughts on the subject. Keep 'em coming.
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