AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

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northernxposure
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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by northernxposure » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:04 pm

I think my highspeed LGS screwed me - mine is listed as a "Pistol", they wouldn't transfer it as "other" as it wasn't an option on the form at the time - it was either Rifle or Pistol. They specifically asked me about it, because if it was sold as a "pistol" it was subject to the mandatory wait for WI, and I had to wait.

I suck at reading legalese - the one thing I took away from the whole pistol to rifle and back thing was that if I want to keep an extra buffer tube and stock laying around, I should also keep a 16" barreled upper along with it. That way I have a "kit", and that keeps me okay so long as I don't go about fiddling around with the pieces.

Having an AR rifle also makes me feel better, as then there's a reason for "rifle parts" to be around.

I'm probably wrong and I suck.

NXP

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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 pm

northernxposure wrote:I think my highspeed LGS screwed me - mine is listed as a "Pistol", they wouldn't transfer it as "other" as it wasn't an option on the form at the time - it was either Rifle or Pistol. They specifically asked me about it, because if it was sold as a "pistol" it was subject to the mandatory wait for WI, and I had to wait.

I suck at reading legalese - the one thing I took away from the whole pistol to rifle and back thing was that if I want to keep an extra buffer tube and stock laying around, I should also keep a 16" barreled upper along with it. That way I have a "kit", and that keeps me okay so long as I don't go about fiddling around with the pieces.

Having an AR rifle also makes me feel better, as then there's a reason for "rifle parts" to be around.

I'm probably wrong and I suck.

NXP
Yes, if you have an AR pistol and also have a rifle or carbine tube and stock without a rifle for them, you are suspiciously close to intent. Same goes for having a shortie upper without a legal lower for them to rest on. If you have a rifle and a pistol, I would just ensure that each has its own case, and never shall a pistol part go in the rifle case, or vice versa.
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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by 91Eunozs » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:19 pm

Already got the reply from my guy in Florida: Hi Xxxx,
I list all receivers as other on my 4473s. I don't provide copies of that document unless it is required or requested by the BATFE or law enforcement. Until it is built, an AR lower can go either way.


That was quick!

If any of y'all in the South Tampa Bay area need a good FFL talk to Pat Flynn at Bullet Blasters in Palmetto... Really happy with the way he treated me when I was trying to line up deliveries while still living in Germany and clearly a guy who knows his shit.

Edit: Pistol buffer on the way... And in a moment of weakness broke down and ordered an EBRv2 for Kermit while I was at it. Where's my ninja mask? :clownshoes:
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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by mac66 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:55 am

northernxposure wrote:I think my highspeed LGS screwed me - mine is listed as a "Pistol", they wouldn't transfer it as "other" as it wasn't an option on the form at the time - it was either Rifle or Pistol. They specifically asked me about it, because if it was sold as a "pistol" it was subject to the mandatory wait for WI, and I had to wait.

I suck at reading legalese - the one thing I took away from the whole pistol to rifle and back thing was that if I want to keep an extra buffer tube and stock laying around, I should also keep a 16" barreled upper along with it. That way I have a "kit", and that keeps me okay so long as I don't go about fiddling around with the pieces.

Having an AR rifle also makes me feel better, as then there's a reason for "rifle parts" to be around.

I'm probably wrong and I suck.

NXP
You are not screwed. What you are thinking about is called "constructive intent". "Constructive intent" is a term for NFA machine guns, it doesn't apply to SBRs. Otherwise, you couldn't own a rifle and a hacksaw blade. You probably bought your lower before the ATF decided a stripped lower was to be listed as "other". They just changed that a few years ago. Even so an AR pistol can be made into rifle and back into a pistol. Just don't put a stock on it unless you have at least a 16" upper on it.

The legal concept is this. Buying a rifle which is less restricted and turning it into a pistol which is more restrictive, bypasses the restriction thus making it illegal to do. On the other hand, a more restricted pistol turned into a rifle does not bypass any restrictions. Since it is already a pistol and you've complied with the pistol restrictions already, you can make it into a rifle and back into a pistol, and thus swap it back and forth. As long as you don't violate any other laws (like putting the stock on it with the pistol barrel) you are good to go. If you sold it, it would have to be sold as a pistol however so that the pistol restrictions aren't bypassed. Clear as mud?

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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by Gingerbread Man » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:04 am

There is constructive intent with SBRs. If you have an AR pistol with carbine buffer tube and a stock that can fit on that buffer tube you have the intent to construct a SBR. Ask the ATF. I did. Get a pistol buffer tube for AR pistols.
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northernxposure
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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by northernxposure » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:37 am

Mac66 - The mud is clear. That was my understanding also after doing lots of complicated reading and some head scratching. Either way it won't be sold, as more than likely it'll be configured into a rifle and passed on to one of the kids some day - hence the spare upper and stock assembly. In the mean time it's my loud range toy and thumb to the nose of the local DNR restrictions for hunting.

RG - I don't really know why anyone would put carbine buffer tube on a pistol other than "Huuurrrrrrrr it's what I got and look now it's legal, see? I can play reindeer games too!" - a dedicated pistol tube is like what, $40? Then there's no questions, and it's not like it's a huge PITA to change it out and back to a standard buffer tube (unless you went to all the trouble of staking it :rofl: ).

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Re: AR pistol lower from a currently-owned stripped lower?

Post by JTNieman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:54 am

mac66 wrote:
northernxposure wrote:I think my highspeed LGS screwed me - mine is listed as a "Pistol", they wouldn't transfer it as "other" as it wasn't an option on the form at the time - it was either Rifle or Pistol. They specifically asked me about it, because if it was sold as a "pistol" it was subject to the mandatory wait for WI, and I had to wait.

I suck at reading legalese - the one thing I took away from the whole pistol to rifle and back thing was that if I want to keep an extra buffer tube and stock laying around, I should also keep a 16" barreled upper along with it. That way I have a "kit", and that keeps me okay so long as I don't go about fiddling around with the pieces.

Having an AR rifle also makes me feel better, as then there's a reason for "rifle parts" to be around.

I'm probably wrong and I suck.

NXP
You are not screwed. What you are thinking about is called "constructive intent". "Constructive intent" is a term for NFA machine guns, it doesn't apply to SBRs.
You're absolutely wrong.

Constructive intent applies to all NFA items.

Here's a conviction on possession of an NFA item not registered because he had a rifle lower and a short barrel upper: http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/o ... 25.MAN.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's another court cases showing they do rule that a separated parts kit, or multiples of parts that have no other obvious purpose than to make illegal arms is a crime:
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwel ... drasen.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Constructive intent is for all the NFA, it appears. I've come across cases where it applied to silencers and destructive devices as well, but SBRs was the only thing being discussed here.

///

I could have sworn I'd read a case where a man was sold an Uzi carbine in carbine configuration, but the case also included a short barrel, and was convicted, based upon constructive intent, to have bought/dealt in illegal NFA items. Couldn't find that case so that's not worth much. Anyone else remember it?

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