Skoll intro

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Skoll
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Location: Scandinavia

Skoll intro

Post by Skoll » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:08 pm

Hello lads and ladies, I'm a square head in my mid 30s. I live on one of our larger Scandinavian cities and try to prepare according to that.

I would call myself an experienced prepper with a few years of preparing for the end. I would probably be what people consider a predatory prepper. And with that I don't mena that I intend to kill, maim and rob honest people, on the contrary; I am willing and prepared to help out when I am able to and I am a team (pack?) player as well. I do however plan on scavenging, hunting/fishing and gathering resources in a dog eat dog scenario. My prepping consists more of equipment for being out in the field and knowledge to that end. My stock piles are small, but would suffice for a couple of weeks of bug in. After that my food and water supplies will be gone. Even so I keep a network of like-minded friends in my area as well as in other places in Scandinavia. We will be able to provide assistance and support, or even gather if the need rises.
I also prepare for bugging out to a BoL with my grey man BoV, using my contact as I travel for shelter and aid - and I will do the same, or even provide my BoL for their families.
I try to balance between a Grey Man approach when needed but I also keep enough equipment to deter, intimidate or neutralize assailants.

I am fairly well armed (for a Scandi) and try to utilize force multipliers to get the upper hand - and always use my surrounding to my advantage.

I don't see any biblical apocalypse coming but a 3rd World War, military action in the Arctic or my proximity is not impossible. There is also the risk of climate change, climate refugees, racial clashes, economic collapse, regional oil shortage (not Peak Oil) or natural disasters. I do firmly believe that the Western world is in decline while China, Russian and Africa is on the rise again. History repeating...

Let's talk preparedness!

(Skoll is from norse mythology btw...)

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Re: Skoll intro

Post by majorhavoc » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:49 pm

Welcome Skoll! I'm sure you will have lots to contribute, but you might want to read up on the forum rules before you post again. The description you've provided of your planned Modus Operandi could be interpreted as planning on killing, maiming and robbing people you deem to be dishonest, and that by "scavenging in a dog eat dog world" you're contemplating stealing property that doesn't belong to you.

I'm sure I'm reading way too much in your intro, but just the same, take a few moments to go over what ZS is all about.

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 44&t=19895

Skoll
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Re: Skoll intro

Post by Skoll » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:42 am

Okay, I know how it works. New guy, first post - people are making sure you aren't a wierdo. But sometimes in their attempt to do so they themselves falls into the same hole they are warning others about.
First of all, interpreting things is dangerous - especially on the internet. Saying that I won't do something doesn't mean I intend to do everything not mentioned. Saying that I won't kill honest people does NOT mean that I intend to go out on a hunt for dishonest people. I mean that I want to make sure you understand that I won't act to deprive others of safety to benefit myself. Even though I failed (english is not my first language and all that). I will however defend myself and my family with lethal force if need be.
And regarding these things, rule 1.) is crystal clear: "No discussion of illegal activities as a viable option."
Illegal is a term only used in societies where there are laws, right? So if the government, enforcing the laws, fall - the laws would not exist, or at best change to what the majority of the people think is morally acceptable, right?
And secondly - and this is where it gets a bit tricky - laws vary. In the US one might own and be allowed to fire a fully automatic rifle or machine gun, while in Holland and some US states for that matter a joint may not be illegal. In Sweden however, none of that is allowed and owning or using it would be a felony.
So what is allowed should be based on my geographic location and a) if laws are in effect and b) what they are.
Using lethal force in self defense is legal in some situations in Sweden, as well as committing other crimes in order to prevent loss of life, health or property admitted that it is justifiable (which only a court can rule if it is or isn't. The court interprets the laws - not the police, the government or the citizens).
A couple of examples of things you may be allowed to do:
- Drive drunk in order to get somebody to the hospital
- Break into a cottage to avoid a snow storm
- Steal a boat to save someone from drowning.
- Defend your home at any cost. My home is my castle is a judicial fact in Sweden.

Nobody in Sweden has ever been in a serious disaster or crisis the last couple of hundred years, but if a global crisis would occur and shops would close, trucks to stop and electricity to die I am fairly certain (with around 15 years in law enforcement, remember though - I am really not the one to interpret the law, but I do have a sense of it) that I would be allowed to acquire resources from stores and a few other facilities as long as it in the courts eyes are "justifiable". So, stealing from old people and families = No. Gathering resources from abandoned markets = Yes.

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Re: Skoll intro

Post by maldon007 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:58 am

Skoll wrote:And regarding these things, rule 1.) is crystal clear: "No discussion of illegal activities as a viable option."
Illegal is a term only used in societies where there are laws, right? So if the government, enforcing the laws, fall - the laws would not exist, or at best change to what the majority of the people think is morally acceptable, right?
And secondly - and this is where it gets a bit tricky - laws vary. In the US one might own and be allowed to fire a fully automatic rifle or machine gun, while in Holland and some US states for that matter a joint may not be illegal. In Sweden however, none of that is allowed and owning or using it would be a felony.
I know it seems like rule Nazi-ing, but we follow them for a very good reason, to prevent conflict that distracts from the forum's purpose, to inform and help people prep. So NO, we don't look to a lawless fictional future to allow talk of breaking laws as being necessary.

As far as what laws you shouldn't talk about wanting to break, yes, it's the laws in your area of operation... So if I live in California, I don't talk about getting a standardly configured M4 and hiding it in my attic till needed after society breaks down... And I also don't go on and on about how bad California is, for not letting me have a standardly configured M4, as that ends up political :D

So basically, we LIKE the rules and DON'T like people trying to get around them... If this seems silly, check out some threads and see how it works, cause it does! Or check out the MANY other forums where the rules are different, cause there are SO many!

Welcome to the forum!
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Re: Skoll intro

Post by KYZHunters » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:15 am

Skoll wrote: Gathering resources from abandoned markets = Yes.
Skoll,
Welcome. I want to tell you that you're not getting the new guy treatment; Major Havoc is just letting you know that there are a few hard and fast rules here on ZS and we stick to them. You'll notice that we're a fairly diverse bunch and I believe that it's the core values that keep this board going while so many others explode, implode or just wither away.
The scavenging/gathering/acquisitioning/repurposing debate has been beaten to death here and you won't convince our benevelant moderators to reopen it so I'd encourage you to drop it and move on.
I hope you'll stick around and share what you know, learn from others and participate in the debates within the few and reasonable restrictions.
crypto wrote:It's not that you were being "harsh" so much as a "douchebag".

Skoll
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Re: Skoll intro

Post by Skoll » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:08 pm

I hear you guys and I will of course abide by the forum rules as best I can. I am not sure I understand them fully though. You keeping an illegal firearm now to use tomorrow is of course bad, and admitting it on a forum even worse - NSA and everything ;)
However, using Swedish Law on "General Grounds for Exemption from Criminal Responsibility" could still be seen as criminal, depending on a number of factors which will be decided in court. I am a strong advocate of the law, even when I disagree with the legislators - Peace and order is maintained through the law. I am also a strong advocate of everyone's rights to self defense (Nödvärn), necessity (Nöd), citizens arrest (envarsgripande) and so on. I have also used all of those rights and will continue to do so when/if I need to, and feel that I have a fairly good understanding of how it works and what is allowed.
So when I say that I will use these laws to my advantage and my families safety, am I doing something that isn't allowed on this board?

A couple of paragraphs:

The Swedish Penal Code
Chapter 24
On General Grounds for Exemption from Criminal Responsibility

Section 1 [Self Defense]
An act committed by a person in self-defence constitutes a crime
only if, having regard to the nature of the aggression, the
importance of its object and the circumstances in general, it is
clearly unjustifiable [Not just "Justifiable"].
A right to act in self-defence exists against,
1. an initiated or imminent criminal attack on a person or
property,
2. a person who violently or by the threat of violence or in some
other way obstructs the repossession of property when caught in the
act,
3. a person who has unlawfully forced or is attempting to force
entry into a room, house, yard or vessel, or
4. a person who refuses to leave a dwelling when ordered to do
so. (Law 1994:458)

Section 4
An act by a person, in cases other than those described previously
in this Chapter, if committed out of necessity, constitutes a crime
only if it is indefensible having regard to the nature of the danger,
the injury caused to another and to the circumstances in general.
Necessity exists when a danger threatens life, health, property or
some other important interest protected by the law. (Law 1994:458)
Section 5
If a person is empowered under Sections 1-4 of this Chapter or
under Section 10 of the Police Act (1984:387) to commit an act
which is otherwise subject to punishment, anyone who assists him is
similarly entitled. (Law 1994:458)

Section 6 [And this is where it get really interesting]
If a person who, in a case where Sections 1-5 of this Chapter or
Section 10 of the Police Act (1984:387) apply, has done more than
is permitted, he shall nevertheless not be held responsible if the
circumstances were such that he had difficulty in stopping to think.
(Law 1994:458)

And here is the entire law:
http://www.government.se/content/1/c6/0 ... 79a8a3.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To cheer things up, a picture:
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maldon007
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Re: Skoll intro

Post by maldon007 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:06 pm

Skoll wrote: So when I say that I will use these laws to my advantage and my families safety, am I doing something that isn't allowed on this board?
Not breaking the law, is not breaking the law... so I don't get it, how would talking about not breaking the law cause an issue with a rule against talking about breaking the law?

Anyway, if you dive in and read up, check out all the threads from long time preppers, many of whom are trained/work professionally in one or more disciplines that pertain to the subject, you will see another point of that specific rule... Being- getting people to get serious about prepping, and focusing less on areas where skirting/breaking the law seems to come up. In other words, focusing less on the least likely scenarios that threaten survival (teotwawki, zombies, etc), that tend to evoke ideas of arsenals and fortresses... And more on the most likely causes of infrastructure breakdown, natural disasters, localized economic problems, etc. Where legal issues are not generally a problem, as far as preparing.
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Skoll
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Re: Skoll intro

Post by Skoll » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:23 am

So it's okay to talk about scavenging. Since it's legal...
Thanks for clearing that up.

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Re: Skoll intro

Post by Fletch » Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:51 am

No, we do not talk about scavenging unless you mean living off the land in a traditional woodsman style. Scavenging does not always necessarily equal looting, but welcome to the internet where people make wild assumptions every day.

If you legally own it, talk about using it is fine, but if you do not own it, then you don't talk about it.

Pretty simple, no?
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Re: Skoll intro

Post by airballrad » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:51 am

Hi and welcome to ZS! :)

Interpretation of our rules can be tricky given that illegal activities are not to be discussed yet laws can vary in different countries and even different localities. In this case it is helpful to keep in mind that this forum is not ZS; it is merely a tool to aid in executing the Zombie Squad mission.

Zombie Squad's mission is to educate the public about the importance of personal preparedness and self reliance, to increase its readiness to respond to a number of disasters such as Earthquakes, Floods or Zombie Outbreaks.

To do this we have partnered with local, regional, national, and international organizations with the same goal. You can imagine that it would be difficult to build these associations if our web forum were filled with recommendations on the best way to take advantage of the weak in the absence of law and order during and following a disaster. That is, in fact, pretty much the opposite of our mission.

It is understood that people will do what they must to survive in desperate times. However, we don't discuss such things here as a valid option. The point is to plan now so that short of a Mass Extinction-type event such desperation is avoided. If your posts work within this mindset I do not expect there will be any problem with our rules.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me or any of the Mod team here or in PM.

Skoll
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:06 pm
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Skoll intro

Post by Skoll » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:59 pm

airballrad > I hear what you are saying, makes sense. I will do my best, and I hope people will offer the benefit of the doubt as well, unlike the first responder to my post.

I agree with ZS's mission and try to do my part to help my fellow men when I can.

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Re: Skoll intro

Post by airballrad » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:57 pm

Skoll wrote:I agree with ZS's mission and try to do my part to help my fellow men when I can.
Thank you!

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Re: Skoll intro

Post by Chicago Zombie » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:33 am

Welcome from Chicagoland :D
ZSC:020 Chapter Officer. IL, WI, or IN resident? Please stop by the ZSC:020 Chicagoland Forum!
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